Jack M Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Saw it called "Alpine" in the first Burton catalog I ever saw, I believe the '87-88 season. The term is derived from the use of Alpine Mountaineering boots, which people used before snowboard specific hardboots were invented. Also borrowed from the skiing lexicon as a general antonym to freestyle. I think it makes sense for us to use this term because IMO every other term is either too narrow and off-putting (raceboarding, race style) or too vague (hardbooting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 You know you can edit that, right?... Good to know Lonboardin, I would not presume to know enough to do that...and I believe that Alpine is a blanket term, as used in Skiing so... Amazing as the History is, no one is really sure what it is :o just like this pic in the aspen paper yesterday showing Sepp Uhls Monoski from 68, while Mike Doyle re invented it in the 70's... [ATTACH]39059[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 been calling it "alpine" for almost 30 yrs.When people ask "what is that" I say "a snowboard" that's never good enough, they ask "what do you call it?" I say alpine style, the gear is like what olympic racers use. I'm not sure where I 1st heard hardboots and high forward angles called Alpine, but ski/mountaineering boots with both feet pointing in the direction of travel in the mid 80s had way more similarity to alpine skiing than sorels & straps at low angles, so the moniker makes sense. Burt & Zellers were the 1st real alpine boarders I ever saw in the late 80s and the "heroes" I tried to emulate. before that it was Sylvain Saudan & Scott Schmidt The Term Alpine Snowboarding was not used at the first contest here at Breckenridge nor the Downhill and Slalom races at Buttermilk in the mid 80's, at least not as I remember :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Saw it called "Alpine" in the first Burton catalog I ever saw, I believe the '87-88 season. The term is derived from the use of Alpine Mountaineering boots, which people used before snowboard specific hardboots were invented. Also borrowed from the skiing lexicon as a general antonym to freestyle.I think it makes sense for us to use this term because IMO every other term is either too narrow and off-putting (raceboarding, race style) or too vague (hardbooting). Thanks Jack...I used my Climbing boots the first year and my Sorrel work boots with my Lange ski boot liners after that for years...so I could call what I do Climb Boarding or Work Boarding...just Kidding :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Jack... You're killing me, Bro... You say you're not feeling threatened by something, while earlier saying it's literally "killing the sport". While you're wearing the mantle of Defender of the Faith, I'll ask you; "What are you defending us against?" The use and teaching of duck stance in beginner lessons. I'm talking like +15/-15 or so. I feel like I see this a lot. I see plenty of beginners and low intermediates emulating Shaun White's stance, and it is really hurting them. Maybe you don't see this as I don't think you are riding at the same time or in the vicinity of weekend warriors. I have asked several intermediates if they've ever tried a narrower, more forward facing stance (nothing crazy, and with plenty of splay) and the vast majority say no. Some friends and acquaintances have adopted my suggestions with success. Further, we've been talking about beginner lessons... We're a long way from the "assembly line" days of turning people away from over-booked group lessons, when snobord'n was the flavour of the day. Most schools are lucky to get a handful of walk-ins a day, where they inevitably turn into privates because no one else booked. From what I see, that has allowed shops and schools to take the time to ask a few more questions, like "What have you done before?" and "What do you want to get out of this? / How do you want to ride?" That's great news. I fail to see how this has to be "un-learned" in order to pick up alpine-style carving. Bending over at the waist on toeside is not a mechanically good way to carve. If someone decides to get more serious with Alpine and try hardboots, if they have the notion that this is how you're supposed to carve, they're going to have to spend some time breaking that habit. It's just a different method. Being good at one style doesn't stand in the way of dialling the other. If it did, Mike and I would be bad at alpine carving. I assure you, if either of us were back east, with more limited options, we'd be back in hardboots, and in a day likely have "flicked the switch". That's because you are already experts. When it comes to your intermediate who you would, with a certain degree of prejudice, steer away from a viable option, you are limiting their legitimate choices, solely based on your own anecdotal experiences. No actually I'm opening their eyes to another choice, which they hadn't considered before. Anecdotal experience... you forget I've taught about a thousand people how to snowboard. Edited April 28, 2014 by Jack Michaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Thanks Jack...I used my Climbing boots the first year and my Sorrel work boots with my Lange ski boot liners after that for years...so I could call what I do Climb Boarding or Work Boarding...just Kidding :) Haha! And in the summer do you go Waterboarding? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Magic stance for freestyle/switch/carve 21+/9+ 20-21.5" width Terje's stance. Don't tell me he doesn't do it all with style... CK rode with similar angles and width (later years of course) and he would show up at summer camp in BC and have not seen a pipe in a year and be on par if not have a deeper bag of tricks than the current pipe kids. Then would carve his way down to the t-bar better than the Hardboot racers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Magic stance for freestyle/switch/carve21+/9+ 20-21.5" width Terje's stance. Don't tell me he doesn't do it all with style... Love that stance and his style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDogWax Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Magic stance for freestyle/switch/carve21+/9+ 20-21.5" width Terje's stance. Don't tell me he doesn't do it all with style... CK rode with similar angles and width (later years of course) and he would show up at summer camp in BC and have not seen a pipe in a year and be on par if not have a deeper bag of tricks than the current pipe kids. Then would carve his way down to the t-bar better than the Hardboot racers Two years of snowboarding my stance was duck, +18 -9, +15 -15, and +12 -9. The last 10 days of 2014 season did some testing tried +35 +27 some others but settled on the +21 +12 was able to carve and ride switch no problems. Board that I was using was LibTech 164 Darker Series. Reason for my stance testing is I'm interested in slalom racing. Would welcome any suggestions, will be racing in soft boots this next year only. Then after one year consider hardboot. Edited April 30, 2014 by SnowDogWax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 and go... <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ryutjiNZpRQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> howdy rob you should have put this video up and avoided all of this... the girl carves better than most alpine riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebiker Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 the girl carves better than most alpine riders. indeed ...even with what I detect to be a bit of boot overhang on the toe side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 and go...howdy rob you should have put this video up and avoided all of this... the girl carves better than most alpine riders. See now that's more like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 howdy rob you should have put this video up and avoided all of this... the girl carves better than most alpine riders. Are they riding duck? As thats what the whole thread is about, and my poor eyesight sees them riding with a forward directional stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Indeed, but trolls don't need evidence, they just need a response. I could also post a picture of someone riding hard boots, carving backwards with better style than the arm waving girl there. Which by troll logic proves it's impossible to do it any other way. But I'm waiting for a flight so this kind of bollocks fills the time. Yawn, where we're we? Oh yes, my hard boots are bad. Got that, people have been telling me that since the 1980s. If they stopped, maybe I'd stop proving them wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted May 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZCR5rweycWg" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>Someone tell me what the biggest difference between this vid and the slack-line one is. It's not the feet, obviously, though if you look, he doesn't move his heels and toes down, like he would if they were supported. That's not the point though... What IS he doing that you don't see in Bart's video? A hint: In my mind, it's something people THINK they need to do, simply because of their stance. Like the guy in this video, I think Mike (the shredder from the one waaaaay back that I originally put up) isn't restricted by this way of thinking. A "technique" which causes many to be out of balance, when in a stance that is otherwise ideally suited for staying on your feet (and carving too!!) Edited May 23, 2014 by Rob Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) Here's a video of some people who apparently made "carving cool again". Rails still look lame to me, like the kiddies playing with their skateboards whilst I played with their girlfriends. Still, they're making a better fist of it that some of the examples here. There are multiple carves, although you can see challenges caused by the stance (eg precisely 1:35). BASI approved it's not - my local version of the badge snowboarders will wet their pants. Original "story": http://whitelines.com/features/i-cant-believe-that-butter.html/2, although their coolness has caused them to misunderstand what the word "Eurocarve" means. We all have to start somewhere. <iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/85315638?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen=""></iframe> YAWGOONS 11 from Dr.B on Vimeo. Edited May 23, 2014 by philw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) my bases hurt just watching that:freak3:. how do you wax for chain? carving half the board is a great application of the c2/camber-rocker-camber wave profile. carve to butter is my fav move, most of the park kids around here have been calling me butters for many years:smashfrea Edited May 26, 2014 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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