What's so great about MADD?

[breeseomatic]

I see a lot of people pining over MADD boards. What's so great about them?

[Algunderfoot]

The "best" thing was that it became the inspiration for the Coiler Angrry 170 which rocks, uses modern materials and doesn't fall apart!! I kept an original Madd 170 one season and that particular board was ridden by more people than Paris Hilton. I'm sure Bryan and Fin can fill in lots of details and there is a signifcant article in the 1st Carver magazine. My take was they offered an innovative variable sidecut combined with (some) more advanced material for the time and created a more grippy, lively board than their piers were building at the time. I concur that the edgehold on the 170 was impressive. Bruce's version beats that though and then some. The Angrry 170 is the board in my quiver I have the most fun with here in the Midwest...well until the new Nirvana and the Coda Skwall show up, then we'll see..

[Dan]

I see a lot of people pining over MADD boards. What's so great about them?

They poop rainbows! Seriously, I have never owned a MADD SL/GS board, but I did have a MADD BX for about 4 or 5 seasons. I made it my "tweener day" board, for when conditions weren't prime enough for a full on carving deck, but not deep enough for a powder board. I have to say that for me it was good but not great. The flex was pretty stiff for my weight / skill, and that didn't help. I have since replaced it with a Prior 4WD which -- for me -- works better on mixed conditions days.

Will be interested to hear the views from people who have spent time on the SL/GS boards.

[Corey]

The 158 turns ludicrously tight if you ask it nicely. The 170 had a surprising range of turn shapes it could do. They're very fun/lively/involving boards.

I'm with Al; they were incredible boards for their time. I feel that modern offerings do most things better and are more versatile too, but it's pretty incredible how far ahead of the game Madd was. A new Coiler Angrry is cheaper than the ever-rising prices for a decent condition Madd 158 - that's a no-brainer for me.

[Guest]

They were great for firm, east coast conditions. Out west they tend to be a bit stiff. And old.

[Newmax]

The 158 turns ludicrously tight if you ask it nicely. The 170 had a surprising range of turn shapes it could do. They're very fun/lively/involving boards.

I'm with Al; they were incredible boards for their time. I feel that modern offerings do most things better and are more versatile too, but it's pretty incredible how far ahead of the game Madd was. A new Coiler Angrry is cheaper than the ever-rising prices for a decent condition Madd 158 - that's a no-brainer for me.

Why would someone spend more money on a Mercedes SL300 when a current Toyota (or ...) is technically by far better, faster and ... cheaper

From what I can tell why Madds are so asked for, is mainly because you can't get them anymore.

Similar thing with the Northwave .9xx boots that are said (by some Style purists ;) ) to be the best flexing (whatsoever) hardboots. People spend hundreds of $ for a run down used pair of them, because they are not in prduction anymore, while there are really good alternatives out there (Deeluxe and UPZ) depending on which liner fits your feet best.

I don't think that I'd prefer a Madd 158 over my current boards, but the idea to have one of the last ones, which are not available anymore, is somehow inspiring.

Max

[philw]

Madd were the first real ice board...

What date are we talking about here?

It's just that I suspect they were very much a US focused brand, and maybe the rest of the world had some boards which were good on ice too...

[piusthedrcarve]

Why would someone spend more money on a Mercedes SL300 when a current Toyota (or ...) is technically by far better, faster and ... cheaper

From what I can tell why Madds are so asked for, is mainly because you can't get them anymore.

Similar thing with the Northwave .9xx boots that are said (by some Style purists ;) ) to be the best flexing (whatsoever) hardboots. People spend hundreds of $ for a run down used pair of them, because they are not in prduction anymore, while there are really good alternatives out there (Deeluxe and UPZ) depending on which liner fits your feet best.

I don't think that I'd prefer a Madd 158 over my current boards, but the idea to have one of the last ones, which are not available anymore, is somehow inspiring.

Max

We all have different perspective of what's good or bad. Whatever works best with one's riding style would be the best board. World Cup inspired decks with newest technologies to shorten the gate time may not be the best board for riders who just want to leave a fine pencil line on resort groomed corduroy. As carvers, some riders wants ride a whole day without exhaustion. Some just want to cruse on any condition. Some wants go fast and charge hard and enjoy pop out of each turn and call it a day after few hours. What matter is what board can give riders smile at end of the day, every run, or every turn. Madd 158 is for the later.

For me, Madd is the ONE. Not the Original but.. right flex one for my like. It definitely give back what I give in and more. Excellent grip on ice so I can charge without hesitation or delay (mentally). Now my quiver has a couple of Madd, few WC decks, and few other alpine decks for not-carving friendly condition. I'll keep explore newer decks but i have a feeling that I won't find others to replace Madd.

[Newmax]

Some wants go fast and charge hard and enjoy pop out of each turn and call it a day after few hours.

That is my definiton of having fun in the snow! :) Except that I don't want to stop after few hours but try to keep it running till the lifts call it a day. I haven't ever ridden a Madd (yet), but the stories about it already created some myth.

Max

[piusthedrcarve]

That is my definiton of having fun in the snow! :) Except that I don't want to stop after few hours but try to keep it running till the lifts call it a day. I haven't ever ridden a Madd (yet), but the stories about it already created some myth.

Max

WE all do want to ride til can't no more. But the time has been come much earlier regardless. Usually I am on the lift by 9. when it's about 11, my legs couldn't hold any more with that stick. So I always carry extra deck(s) to enjoy rest of day. BUT I ride for that 2 hours

[Beckmann AG]

Regarding the 158 gecko with opposable adamantine talon:

Riders (assuming a modicum of skill) like them, and want them, because they work.

Despite their age, and seemingly 'dated' design.

The better ones had more camber than is fashionable.

They didn't twist easily.

Snowfeel was excellent.

Nimble/tractable with both high and low speed maneuverability.

Plenty of usable feedback for the rider.

With a little attention, useful in all sorts of ugly snow conditions.

More or less the antithesis of what the industry at large considers a 'snowboard'.

And there was something about the sidecut. Go full-tilt-bozo airborne on the rebound, and so long as you could get about 4 inches of edge back in at the nose, you could walk out of that bar fight with a mocca, (double short) and some clink for the tip jar.

Alas, like the ignition condensor in the beloved VW Type II, eventually they break down and leave one wanting.

And like the Type II itself, the MADD is not suited to all tastes.

E.g., a little too short for the Big Burn @ Snowmass, unless you like pounding turns like a

drops brass.

If not for bad epoxy, and a fickle marketplace, one has to wonder what might have been.

Fortunately, if you really want one, and know what to ask for, a custom builder can set you up with a close facsimile.

[John Gilmour]

They were great for firm, east coast conditions. Out west they tend to be a bit stiff. And old.

I would say Jim is right on the money here. I took some Madd boards out west to Squaw Valley after a big dump and even though the snow was packed down and looked like it was groomed it really wasn't firm enough for the boards and they would dig in too much and slow down as they would plow through the snow.

I had to switch to a much softer Sims burner 195 split tail on that day and even then that was a little too firm for the conditions. If I took my feet out of the bindings and tried to walk on the snow I would sink down nearly to my knee.

Quote...Beckmann

E.g., a little too short for the Big Burn @ Snowmass

Ha! So true,,,, been there!

Funny you should pick that youtube video...I'm designing now with a guy who designs Ammo feed systems for the Apache Helicopters..

Edited October 21, 2013 by John Gilmour

[John Gilmour]

The Madd snowboards aren't for everybody, particularly the Madd 158 which requires constant rider input. It is not a board that you take out with weak legs. It's also not a board you would choose to ride with a hangover. It's a board you ride when you're on your a game have a clear head and want to get some work done and use it as a feedback tool to become a better rider.

The Aerial Atom V8 might be a good car to compare it to. There is no cruise control, and no power assisted steering.

No metal dampening to remove your feel from the snow....what made Madds so great???

Was it the Triaxial Braided fiberglas same sourced by Ferrari for their Formula 1 cars...a little

Was it the Speckled base that would not "wet" - that was so toxic to produce it will never be made again...a little

Was it the super hard steel edges..a little

Was it the Butterfly top sheet ..a little

Was it the oversized brass inserts that absorbed high frequency ice vibration...a little.

Was it the rubber sheeting in the nose and tail...a little

Was it that our side cut precisely matched out flex pattern- more than a little

Was it the forward loaded flex...more than a little

Was it the type of resin we used....much more than a little- that was key...

I tune - mix/match audio systems. Something I have always done ever since I was 14.

I'm in the current issue of The Absolute Sound for tuning rooms at T.H.E Show Newport Beach Show 2013 .. I made $12,000 speakers beat $120,000 speakers... its like cooking a good recipe- everything has to be in perfect balance. I nailed the room- made it sound like music...not like audio. Against 300 rooms of other exhibitors ...I made music. well the Madd boards are sorta like music- they track the snow- maintain contact even over the roughest passages, and deliver emotion. They don't just numb everything out.... you feel the cutting power. It's NOT at all like a Cadillac CTS. (which isn't a bad car on paper at all... it's just not what I look for when I'm driving a fun twisty road). I like the emotional experience of hearing the craftsmanship that went into a great piano or stringed instrument- I don't want my music to sound like BOSE- and I don't want a snowboard to remove me from that ...for lack of better words- that RAW musical timbre of hearing/feeling that ice cut. That's an emotional part of riding- it won't get you to the finish line any faster- but it just bought you more fun- made you feel superhuman instead of ordinary.

If you want to follow the contours of music with great detail- keeping the drivers in perfect contact with the exact musical wave.. you can't make an amp too damped or a woofer too sloppy with too weak or too stiff a surround or spider- you can't make a cabinet too stiff or too soft, you can't using the wrong speaker wire..... or crap crossover components (Crossovers are like resin to snowboards--- you don't see it but it makes a huge difference).

It all has to be right, not just a jumble of parts with good specs. Good materials help... but it doesn't at all guarantee a good board... in fact often higher end materials leave you with less of a margin for error. You have to get it AAALLLLLL right.

The original Madd 158 and 170 IMHO were as good as could be done with the technology at the time. Some modern boards deal with more varied conditions better and carve well. For instance I loved the Virus UFC wide....and had fun in mixed deep powder conditions that would have been an absolute horror show on a Madd 158. But I never rode a board that forced me to ride better than a Madd 158. If you want to learn to ride ice..I think it is still one of the best tools for the job....a metal board will ENABLE you to ride ice, but it won't TEACH you to ride ice. If you know how to ride ice from riding a Madd 158 And have a metal Virus board..thats a pretty formidable combo. Being able to ride ice at 10 to 15 below zero and still have fun is a pretty unusual thing in snowboarding...and those nasty conditions that seem to be around a lot in Mid January in the North East.

If you are a occasional weekend warrior and get 20 days on the snow you would be much better off buying a metal board.

If you find yourself on uncrowded icy slopes with a skilled friend and want to push yourselves to lay down some sick lines on ice ...you can turn an icy crap day into a totally rewarding learning experience where you drive home knowing you got better.

Edited October 21, 2013 by John Gilmour

[LeeW]

Well, I hope you are familiar with MotoGP... especially those beasts, the 500cc 2 strokes. There's this guy who has really cool british accent... this is how he put it in via "Faster" motoGP video:

"Anybody who could ride a 500cc GP motorcycle well enough to qualify on Grand Prix grid is a hero, Anybody! because these things are the most evil devices if your treat them wrong they will bite."

This could be said the same for those Madd 158. I personally own one and it says "The Pimp" on it as well. :) But dude... I once wiped out on that board so bad that I knocked myself out. Several riders of this forum were out there with me at Keystone... they're quite squirrely so you need to handle them with care.

No, I do not ride them often enough, but when I do, they're so bloody awesome. However, I've pretty much almost 100% retire from riding and moved on to skiing with my snowboard hardboots these days... and have been for maybe almost a decade.

Credible? Former racer with Team Copper and US Deaf Olympics.

[John Gilmour]

"Anybody who could ride a 500cc GP motorcycle well enough to qualify on Grand Prix grid is a hero, Anybody! because these things are the most evil devices if your treat them wrong they will bite."

This could be said the same for those Madd 158. I personally own one and it says "The Pimp" on it as well. :)

(custom Graphics) Well, and that's not the Original Madd 158 which when ridden with authority had more than the edge hold of the reissue Madd 170 . The originals had what felt like 20-25 more CM of grip and were super agile in edge to edge transitions.

Got an icy steep trail stripped to rocky chalk by amateur teen skiers on a late sunday afternoon? Now you want to learn how to ride that crap snow and get more out of it instead of your teeth rattling out of your head like Chicklets while side slipping frozen cat track? The Madd 158 was the tool for that junk. It taught you without killing you... but you can't back off the throttle, just pour more gas on and set the slope a blaze.

All that being said...

I wonder what can be done now with the most modern materials?

... with new, never applied tech,

new concepts,

and new lightweight high frame rate video cameras for close up non simulated snow analysis at speed????

What about using a robotic arm to do a full snow analysis sweep of a board on snow in a completely controlled repeatable environment??? That's the **** I want. You could develop riding technique and material science, and design. That takes Burton money (And a will to lose a huge pile of it- just to push the envelope up to the next manila) combined with a lunatic weirdo(s) who has visions of "what can't be done" and determination to prove everyone wrong.

We at Madd- all of us , were pretty dirt poor. Cappelletti couldn't afford his rent so he moved into my 1 bedroom apartment and slept on some lumpy couch, Banker kept having to move- we all drove 15 year old cars that were in the shop as much as they were on the road. Some productions runs only happened because Cappelletti was willing to put it on his Amex.

If only we had had money. What we could have done... I could have... for instance, hired Mark Fawcett when he asked to ride for us....and a slew of others.

I applied to work at Burton once...as a soft boot production manager... in the mid 1990's. They looked at me like I was too old- like a guy in a suit. Like I wouldn't hang with the bro's smoking a spliff by the mini ramp. They'd feel like they invited some weird parent to their brofest party. Never got the call back.

I knew what I wanted in a soft boot-performance enhancing features that would not sacrifice comfort weight and mobility - I could have saved them over 2 decades of wasted time. I still could. When I design things I do it in my mind- protoypes were really expensive. Now with CNC and CAD they are cheap and fast-which has led to a new design ethic of designing without thinking. Frankly designing without genius. It's not good. It is without focus.

I'm not sure the current generation of under 30 year old designers has it in them. Like Action heros.... not many new ones have been minted that are tough like the old guard (at least insuring the actors is cheaper with medicare)....do we really have to have an Expendables 3? It's in the making BTW.

So perhaps for the next decade, with glucosamine, orthopedic surgery, and hopefully without an arsenal that would make Lance Armstrong feel unprepared for competition.... I hope there will be at least one more round of solid innovation..

[lowrider]

A plate on any board handles ice like you guys describe the way a Madd handles ice. Has anyone out there had a chance to ride a board with a plate and could compare it to how a Madd handles ice? Makes me wonder how a Madd board would ride with the latest generation of low more flexable generation of plates?

[LeeW]

(custom Graphics) Well, and that's not the Original Madd 158 which when ridden with authority had more than the edge hold of the reissue Madd 170 . The originals had what felt like 20-25 more CM of grip and were super agile in edge to edge transitions.

I know. I tried the original ones of Fin's and it's incomparable to the one I got. However, that board of his... he'll never sell it. :)