mbedle Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 I've been snowboarding for the past 23 years and in hard boots since 1994. Spent many years on both a Burton and Nitro board with Nordica SBH boots. About 4 years ago, I moved onto a F2 Silberpfeil - 168cm with F2 Titanium Race bindings with UPZ RC10 boots. Last year, while out in Colorado, I picked up a Donek Access - 167cm with TD3 SideWinders. All of these boards have been pretty much been setup the same as the board before it. Lets just say that I haven't put a lot of thought into the setup nor gotten any advice on what different setups do for a rider (carvers are few and far between in PA!). I also haven't ever adjusted the setup to see what effect it has on my riding (I'm guessing that is just me being an old dog, not wanting to learn any new tricks). My question is, does anyone know of a good place online that can provide some information about different setups and adjustments. My biggest fear is that if I don't have the bindings/boots set with the optimal angle/cant/lift for my riding style, i've been missing out on some great carving or at least less work to keep an edge. Thanks. <textarea id="adlesse_unifier_magic_element_id" style="display:none;"></textarea> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 You can look at the resources menu on the Bomber home page. Here's an article on Cant and Lift from there. http://bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/cant_lift.html Personally I set my bindings up so my boots have zero overhang. Lifting the toe and heel allow me to widen my stance, and then canting helps me align the boot cuff with my lower leg. Essentially I look for a comfortable relaxed centered stance. But I'm a carver not a racer, you'll quite likely get different advice from others. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPablo Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 this is a pretty good place: http://www.alpinecarving.com/binding_setup.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedle Posted August 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Thanks Guys - I appreciate the info and links. <textarea id="adlesse_unifier_magic_element_id" style="display:none;"></textarea> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacopodotti Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Everything from here http://bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/tech_articles.html you could also fin something interesting here http://www.carvers.it/f-a-q-2/snowboard-stance-inglese/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Maybe you don't need to change your set up? I have changed mine some what over the last couple of years and have settled in. Try to figure out why you would need to change something and then maybe experiment with a change if you think it will help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedle Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Snowboardfast - you may be correct. After reading the articles everyone posted, I am going to try and make some adjustments to each board's setup. The tough part is I am worried about the changing conditions that I ride under. I spend pretty much each weekend at my local hill in PA and a long week out west and up in Vermont. This year, I'll be mostly down here in PA and rented a house in VT for February. To say the least, the conditions I am riding under have and will vary greatly. Typical ice and hardpack down here in southeastern PA and much better conditions up in VT. What I was unsure of and might ultimately find out is, each different condition will require some minor adjustments to the setup to achieve the best ride. As before, thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 There are a few different mindsets on stance. Some are free-flowing and just deal with whatever they've got. Others are tweaking things constantly for any conditions/boards/whatever. I'm in the former camp, though I did experiment slowly over a couple of years to find what my body liked. Now that I've got that basic idea, I generally don't change it other than the angles for varying board widths. In contrast, I've seen people adjusting binding angles mid-run at SES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Where is your local hill? I deal with similar conditions, probably (Camelback/Blue Mt) and find that if I have a board set up comfortably, then it's good in VT and CO too. For me the angles are dictated by the board; lift and cant are very helpful in getting joints properly aligned, and the "right" lift and cant depends on my stance width. I've been encouraged to increase stance width and I think I like the extra stability, but it took a while to get used to (and to get the new "correct" cant and lift settings to keep my knees happy). Worth trying if you haven't. The Axxess is a wider board than the F2, so do you have severe underhang on the Axxess -- or when you say "set up the same" do you mean just angle the bindings so that your boots are at the edge of the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedle Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Hi Teach - The local hill is Blue Mountain. Riding goofy, the F2 is setup with the front foot at 56 degrees (thats what I read off the binding) and no lift or cant. The back foot is set at 60 degrees with a 6 degree lift and 1 degree cant to the heal (back) side. The Axxess is the same with a decent amount of underhang. To you guys that understand all of this, those settings might sound pretty rediculous. Like I said before, I've pretty much been blind to what the setup was and how any changes would help with riding and comfort. The links everyone has provided seem to indicate that I might be able to tweak a couple of things to get a more comfortable ride and better control of the boards. Obviously, I need to spend some time at blue one day doing some adjustments and seeing how if effects the ride. Thanks again for the feedback. Always appreciated. <textarea id="adlesse_unifier_magic_element_id" style="display:none;"></textarea> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) I'm a carver not a racer so take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt. I'm also riding around Banff on typically softer snow. What I call hard groom is referred to as a powder day on the east coast. For carving on alpine decks I have been using UPZ RTRs but just upgraded this season to UPZ RC-10s. For serious AM riding I use a UPZ ATB with a stiffer black tongue. In both boots I removed the flow liner and put in a Deeluxe 141 Thermofit. This softened the boot toe to heel, but maintained lateral stiffness. The cuffs on my boots are canted outwards because I'm bow legged. I use TD3 Step-ins with Fintecs and 3 degree cant discs front and back on all my boards be they all-mountain or carve specific. The toe and heel are lifted to allow me to keep a wider but weight-centered stance. The 'softness' of my boots then allows me to shift my weight around on the board and put it where it needs to be. I find this gets weight off my front leg and allows me to relax and use different styles. Angles are whatever the board width will allow such that the boots are completely within the sidewalls of the board. The fuego test from extremecarving works well for this but I can never keep two boxes of wine around like they are showing in this picture. (Picture actually shows too much overhang on the heel.) Corey mentioned this in another post somewhere, but like him I've had a monumentally crappy day where the cuff of my boot, about 6" up from the board edge, was hitting the snow and lifting the edge out. Because of that I'm pretty anal these days about making sure I'm riding with high enough angles. I've got mondo 28 boots so my angles on AM boards with a 24.5cm waist are (F/R) 50/45. Angles for carving are typically 65/60 to 60ish/55 with boards from 19.5-21cm waists The biggest change for me was getting to an expression session with my UBER stiff RTRs (grey tongue and flo liners) and getting tossed around by every bump. I looked around and noticed what people were doing in their RC-10s and made some changes. Softening my boots made a huge difference in being able to absorb inconsistencies in the trail, and letting me put my weight where it needs to be. Dave Edited August 29, 2013 by Puddy Tat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 60 rear and 56 front is asking to be tweaked, unless you know that's what your joints need. Usually you want the front steeper than the rear. Puddy Tat's picture is a great illustration for setting up. If you want front steeper than rear, get the rear one set up so the boot just comes to the edges (the Fuego boxes will tell you), then read the angle and set the front a little higher. If you need "inward splay" then doing this starting with the front might work. Check out the ride board for NJ/PA (closer to season start!) -- there's always a Blue Mountain thread and quite a few very good and very helpful riders there. I was a Blue regular until the Camelback $199 pass deal (and Pocono Raceway) lured me away. I hope to get to Blue this season. Definitely post to the board when you're going to be riding so others can catch you. I really like my TD3 SW. They are much more demanding of proper cant than say SnowPros, which work fine for me with cant negated, just lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedle Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Teach - I think you are right about needing to finally tweak the settings. Its funny, but the Silberpfeil I pretty much can lay down both sides good. The Access is another story. Every time I ride it, it feels like it is always fighting me. It doesn't seem like it wants to fall into a carve, but instead wants to roll off its edge. At slower speeds, the damn thing has a mind of its own….. It is almost like how it felt 20 years ago when I started. Hopefully, with all the help you guys have offered it will be a different beast this year. Couple of you guys mentioned me racing in your comments, just so you know I am not a racer. Just an all around kind of mountain guy. Doesn't seem to be too much of a racing group around here in PA (at least what I have found). I know Ski Roundtop has a good bunch of guys on a team. I've been reading a lot the past couple of days with all the feedback and links and got a couple of ideas to try out this season. Teach, I do have one question for you. The SnowPros you mentioned, are they Burton's bindings from back in the 90's? Do you still have a pair where the bails haven't broken off yet?????? They lasted forever for me (one broke up at the top of Greek Peak, fun walk down in boots!), but finally had to move onto something newer. And yes - I will check out the ride board during the season. It would be nice to find and ride with some other carvers around here. Take care, Mark<textarea id="adlesse_unifier_magic_element_id" style="display:none;"></textarea> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Riding a significantly wider board takes some adjustment for me, and with massive underhang it's no fun at all. Sounds like lower angles are in order on the Axxess. When you reduce the angles you may also want to widen the stance and change the can a little. The SnowPros are ones I got used from this forum. They are beefier than Burtons -- 6 mm bails. I may be a little heavy for them and try to be careful when I'm on them. (I think they're the same company that makes UPZ boots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Riding a significantly wider board takes some adjustment for me, and with massive underhang it's no fun at all. Sounds like lower angles are in order on the Axxess. When you reduce the angles you may also want to widen the stance and change the cant a little. The SnowPros are ones I got used from this forum. They are beefier than Burtons -- 6 mm bails. I may be a little heavy for them and try to be careful when I'm on them. (I think they're the same company that makes UPZ boots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 As you adjust your bindings for board width, keep in mind that angles are not the only adjustment available. You can also move your bindings toward toeside or heelside - this is adjusting your bias. On a narrow board, I move my front foot quite far toward toeside to eliminate having the boot contact the snow (especially the buckles) and I move the back foot toward heelside until the board's ride feels right. On a wide board you would want to go the other way (this is called "Gilmour Bias", not sure if the first version has a name...) moving your front foot toward heelside and your rear foot toward toeside. You are focusing here on finding the optimal distance for the heel of your front foot from the board edge for heelside turns, and for the toe of your rear boot for toeside turns. This way you can keep your angles similar as you ride boards of different widths, but still maintain a functional distance from your board edge. My riding changed A LOT when I finally got around to changing my lift configuration (3 deg toe lift in front and 3 deg heel lift in back, no canting, turned out be quite nice for me, YMMV :) ) and adjusting my binding bias. Even small bias adjustments seem to make quite a lot of difference in how a board rides for me - bias adjustment is not just about avoiding boot-out, but also has a lot of effect on how the board rides. (BTW - my Bomber TD2's offer about twice as much bias adjustment as any other brand of bindings that I've been able to get my paws on to measure... just sayin'. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) ............ Angles are whatever the board width will allow such that the boots are completely within the sidewalls of the board. The fuego test from extremecarving works well for this but I can never keep two boxes of wine around like they are showing in this picture. (Picture actually shows too much overhang on the heel.) [ATTACH]35210[/ATTACH] Dave If you look carefully picture you see that there is also over hang in toe side too, in reality same ammount as on heel side. But i admit that i should have taken better picture to be more visible. But after two Fuegos one makes easily mistake :) http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7172 Edited August 31, 2013 by pokkis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 ...But i admit that i should have taken better picture to be more visible. But after two Fuegos one makes easily mistake :) Lol. I hadn't noticed that you had taken that picture Pokkis. It's still a good test and I pretty much do it (with a more domestic wine) every time I set up bindings on a board. Honestly I don't even look at binding angles anymore until my boots are set at the sidewalks of the board. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 ...Couple of you guys mentioned me racing in your comments, just so you know I am not a racer. Actually I mentioned racing in my comments. I only mention it to give perspective on how I ride and what I'm doing may not work for you if that was what you are doing. Sorry for the confusion. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTS-V Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Seems to me the biggest difference between riding 15 years ago and riding today (been there done that)Is the distance between feet, was 16 inches is now 21 inches, hasn't been mentioned, allows you to crouch lower and put your weight on either end of the board at will. When you spread out increase your angles of front and rear foot lift. Yup...concur w/that. I still ride the same stance that I did from the mid-90s....about ~15-16in distance for the bindings.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.