~tb Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I have finally mentally digested all of the equipment I got to play with on my trip to mount hood and feel compelled to share this one lasting impression with you all. I was absolutely blown away by one particular board and plate combination that I tested, and it was NOT the one I expected to love. We were riding on hideously tight groomed. . . ice. . . and this board and plate were just working so well in concert that I didn't want to stop riding or even slow down until my legs forced me. It was fun race style carving, it was fun free carving, heck, could even lay out a fairly easy eurocarve. When I was chatting with Sean from Donek about the evolution of the board, he explained how that board has been evolving solely with a plate on it and never without, and you could tell. The board has been refined such that you must ride it with a plate, and furthermore, with the plate at the designed axel spacing. Everything just worked without having to think about setup, or where the axel should be, or where I wanted to move it to. There was only one answer and it just worked. Where am I going with this. . . get ready for System boards in the next several years (Boards and plates that are designed and paired together and not necessarily interchangeable). Other people have said it, but to get the true benefit out of all of this, a board must be designed in concert with the plate that will be placed on it and the intended axel spacing known and accommodated for by the board builder (Encompassing flex of the plate, flex of the board, stiffness of the hardware, and how each of them impacts the other . . . not just, yeah, there are a set of inserts where you want to put your axels). Getting away from all this interchangeability will allow for lower, lighter, and higher performing plate systems, but we will sacrifice being able to tweak axel spacing all day long (rather than ride), and might be limited in being able to put a "new plate" from a system board onto an old rock board. Based on what I rode out at Hood, the board I will order next year will have NO 4X4 inserts, and only one set of plate mount inserts, placed at the location Sean has designed the flex pattern of the board to receive the input of the plate. If you have a chance to demo/borrow/buy a board plate combo that have been refined together like this, I highly recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Tinkler anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Tinkler anyone? Sure. . . Tinkler has been on this train for a while design "derby" style plates that flex along with the board. I think the next evolution (that Tinkler of all people should be able to do quite well) will involve the same kind of integration with a plate that isolates more than his older "derby" style system boards. I know he has been dabbling with the new plate concepts and will be very interested to see what comes out of his shop next season (and hope that I can get on one). Hey Bryan, I know that you had a picture of a complete Tinkler Board with Tinkler plate, do you know if he has made more? There is a LOT of iterative refinement that needs to take place to get them to truly work well as a single system, but when it is right, watch out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 What i have always liked with the tinklers is the lower stack height, now that we are trying softer plates we might also move away from total isolation. Someone really needs to send one to the ses demo tent next year ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 ... now that we are trying softer plates we might also move away from total isolation. Someone really needs to send one to the ses demo tent next year ;) Couldn't agree with your more here James. This is exactly what I was feeling in the prototype at Hood. It was really cool that I could get the benefits of the isolation when I needed and wanted them, but also engage the board more directly with very small adjustments in my body position. It was like the best of both worlds. . . and I know that these concepts are still evolving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Very cool Todd!!! Glad it was a good trip. It snowed 17" the next week. Fun to see the developments and share a few beers too. Funny, someone posted some of the Olympic videos here the other day. Both USA Olympic snowboarders were on Mike's Top Plates and his modded lower mechanisms. That was six versions ago? :) Mike works quitely behind the scenes with allot of the top folks in coaching, building, racing. Careful, next thing you know folks will actually consider his TNT designs and Snow Stix. Many of you might remember my efforts to get an early Wind Surf board back from Martha's Vinyard. Mike was doing custom flex tails in the early 80s. And YES! my only purpose in life is to toot his horn:) Carry on with great designs that make it even more fun to snowboard on alpine gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Bryan, I think I remember seeing a recent pic from you with a BBP mounted on top of a full TNT system. Did you try riding that crazy combo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 This "New Conclusion"(board and plate combinations) is what JJ's plates and boards have been all about. I've been saying for a few years now that theres a lot of change to come. If anyone is interested in a little research on plates the " Alpine Snowboard Plate thread " is a good place to start. Good luck with the new designs Sean, hope the results include a stack heigh under 17mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 We've just proposed a new concept that could put a prototype below 13mm. Unfortunately, that must wait until the snow is back. It will also involve some conceptual changes to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 It will also involve some conceptual changes to the board.two aluminium mounting rails laminated laterally into the core, fore and aft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Bryan, I think I remember seeing a recent pic from you with a BBP mounted on top of a full TNT system. Did you try riding that crazy combo? Sorry to say. The night before I was headed up I had a Giant Retinal detachment and tear in the right eye. Still looking to recover from that. 3 hours of emergency eye surgery left me grounded ( wrist band reminding me and medical personel not to go over 2000 feet in elevation ) I am starring at that set up along with a few others I am anxious to test. The bill from the Casey Eye Institute arrived today. 9200.00$ That is for the Surgery only. Not the visits before or after. Edited June 1, 2012 by www.oldsnowboards.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 two aluminium mounting rails laminated laterally into the core, fore and aft? No.....it's a secret. for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Sorry to say. The night before I was headed up I had a Giant Retinal detachment and tear in the right eye. Still looking to recover from that. 3 hours of emergency eye surgery left me grounded ( wrist band reminding me and medical personel not to go over 2000 feet in elevation ) I am starring at that set up along with a few others I am anxious to test.The bill from the Casey Eye Institute arrived today. 9200.00$ That is for the Surgery only. Not the visits before or after. Bryan, hope you and your eyesight will soon be 100%. That surgerybill is high. Hope you have a good health insurance. Still can't understand the health and insurance system in the USA that people get confronted with these high bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Will be a nice next season coming up with all that new stuff around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Now we just need system plate + binding combos! Hint hint Fin! :D Custom machined cant/lift, direct mount, ultra light, ultra low, yadda yadda yadda. Todd, what were the specs of the board you're talking about? Bryan, get well soon! :( Edited June 4, 2012 by Jack Michaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Now we just need system plate + binding combos! Something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 yup! if the toe/heel blocks are machined with custom cant/lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Now we just need system plate + binding combos! Hint hint Fin! :D Custom machined cant/lift, direct mount, ultra light, ultra low, yadda yadda yadda.Todd, what were the specs of the board you're talking about? Bryan, get well soon! :( the board I was riding was the latest iteration on the rev 185 with a new "af plate" on it. Interesting idea. I have been looking at a combined plate binding combo, but am not ready to give up angle adjustment ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I love the idea of the lowest stack height and low weight that could be achieved with an integrated board/plate/binding system.I've been working this out for myself with a design that would allow for a small amount of angle adjustment.A very workable design challenge actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Something like this? The Plate is actually from www.s5.co.kr, one of Korean binding companies, from last year and it is called 'S5 Isolation Plate". It has been available for (Korean) market from last year but riders were skeptical about its softness (compared to Apex or Boiler plate) and because of that, it was not popular. Since the company produce bindings, the inventor put toe & heel bails without body as shown and achieved Plate + Bindings combination. Binding angles are fixed in between 50-55 degrees. Too shamed to see great and very advanced concept wasn't recognized by favoring top & popular gears. Now it's matter of time to see binding company to partner with JJA's Board+Plate combo like. Hopefully Donek+Bomber? :) Edited June 5, 2012 by piusthedrcarve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Did somebody say Tinkler? I thought he has been long gone aeons ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Did somebody say Tinkler?I thought he has been long gone aeons ago. Nope, he is RIPPIN at 60 !!! Still building some really sweet sticks and plates. Got a call yesteday about some of the newest developments. I keep telling Mike he needs to write a book about some of the events and adventures from his life of sports and flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Someone at SES this year had a Donek plate with 3 T-nuts in the deck to allow a TD2/3 baseplate to be mounted directly on the plate. This still allowed angle adjustments, but obviously it only works if you like zero lift/cant. Very neat idea! If you made custom spacers for the toe & heel blocks you could do whatever you wanted for lift/cant. It's a complex problem - I want 6-degree lift with just a tiny bit of outward cant on both feet, at a 19.75" stance width, and be able to change from 55 to 60-degrees rear foot angles, plus about 5 higher front foot angles. Try to make a plate that does that as well as accommodating someone with a 22" stance and flat setup. The super-thin TD3 BP cant discs/elastomers are the best compromise I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 so happy to see that there are geeks out there who can't stop thinking about riding even during the summer (and I live on a beach!). I tried translating the Korean site to English via Google, and to say the least its like reading a technical manual written by a illiterate foreigner. Regardless, I was hoping some of your smarty-pants who know far more about the mechanics of a plate system could fill me in: 1) does this plate, if I read correctly, provide both longitudinal and horizontal flex? 2) is this a good thing? The bomber and Donek plates, as well as the APEX (ridden only the bomber myself, and one of JJA's) seem like the maintain, or try to maintain stiffness in all directions (generally speaking). So this Korean plate would then be a different take on things. Or I have no idea what I am talking about, in which case thanks for reading anyway! Also seems like the design cuts a lot of weight... anyone notice the metal F2s they are selling? Where can I get me a pair on those? (I know JJA and Tyler Jewells ride them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 anyone notice the metal F2s they are selling? Where can I get me a pair on those? (I know JJA and Tyler Jewells ride them). f2 race/intec CNC. general availability, but for the price you might as well buy TD3's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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