Snowboarding popularity

[John E]

Interesting article in Sunday's Denver Post:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_20606982/all-numbers-mdash-from-visits-purchases-first-timers?IADID=Search-www.denverpost.com-www.denverpost.com

So, maybe the resorts will have to start wooing us old guys on alpine boards.

[kieran]

duck stance is clearly to blame. ;)

[Aracan]

Does anyone have an idea how popular snowboarding is in terms of equipment sales?

I'm asking because a few months ago I came across a newspaper piece (in German) stating that around 15.000 alpine boards are sold per annum globally. Would be interesting to compare with softie sales if anyone has a number.

[Jack M]

Doesn't surprise me. In the late 80's and 90's, Skiing had a terrible image problem. Next to Snowboarding, it was lame. On top of that, only the experts could really make straight skis perform. Everyone else looked silly sliding around. And big air at resorts was discouraged or prohibited.

Now skiing is cool. Very cool. Youtube Simon Dumont for a taste. Parks and pipes are not only in, they are required equipment. But I think a huge contrasting factor is that skiing is now easier and safer than snowboarding thanks to shaped skis. Non-expert Snowboarders are now the ones who look silly sliding around, and only the experts look good outside of a park or pipe. My 9 and 6 year olds carve their skis whenever they can, because it's natural and intuitive and easy to do on the new gear. I taught my son how to snowboard, but he just doesn't have the fever for it because he's so much better on his skis. When I started snowboarding in '88, skiing was difficult and frustrating. Learning how to snowboard then was liberating. Today it is humbling.

"The percentage of snowboarders with kids grew from 18.8 percent in 2010 to 23.4 percent in 2011." - This is another thing, I know when we started a family, our slope time was decimated for 6 years. Also I actually know some people who went back to skis after they had kids.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jack Michaud

[Transistor Rhythm]

Most snowboarders don't want to be found dead in hard boots and a slalom snowboard. Yet when they try skiing, they rent hardboots and slalom ski's without a hitch. Then they're surprised about how easy those ski's turn, never realizing they could enjoy the same amount of control on a snowboard.

[LeeW]

Doesn't surprise me. In the late 80's and 90's, Skiing had a terrible image problem. Next to Snowboarding, it was lame. On top of that, only the experts could really make straight skis perform. Everyone else looked silly sliding around. And big air at resorts was discouraged or prohibited.

Now skiing is cool. Very cool. Youtube Simon Dumont for a taste. Parks and pipes are not only in, they are required equipment. But I think a huge contrasting factor is that skiing is now easier and safer than snowboarding thanks to shaped skis. Non-expert Snowboarders are now the ones who look silly sliding around, and only the experts look good outside of a park or pipe. My 9 and 6 year olds carve their skis whenever they can, because it's natural and intuitive and easy to do on the new gear. I taught my son how to snowboard, but he just doesn't have the fever for it because he's so much better on his skis. When I started snowboarding in '88, skiing was difficult and frustrating. Learning how to snowboard then was liberating. Today it is humbling.

"The percentage of snowboarders with kids grew from 18.8 percent in 2010 to 23.4 percent in 2011." - This is another thing, I know when we started a family, our slope time was decimated for 6 years. Also I actually know some people who went back to skis after they had kids.

Hello, Jack... that may be true, and I do not know if it correlates to World Cup racing (since they're pretty much the first stamp for the next generation batches of skis), but I reckon a ski racer friend of mine and I were conversing on how the FIS is now dictating straight skis would be eligible and Shaped Skis are out. I just hope it only limits to the racers, not the general public.

I admit I went onwards to skis, because it's far more practical when it comes to working environment at the ski resorts as opposed to the board.

I sincerely hope the NSAA will do something to address this issue for years to come. We shall see.

[BobD]

I don't know how they figure out how many are on a board and how many are on skis, no one asks when you buy a lift ticket. I did read that while numbers were down generally this year with the lack of snow and warm temps in so many places, boarder were down significantly more than skiers.

[John E]

Because of my age, I forget how much the "cool" factor has to do with it. I grew up skiing. Though I never raced, I got to be a fairly expert skier. Around 1990 or so, I tried snowboarding because I was getting bored with skiing. It took me a long time to get the hang of it. Once I tried boarding in powder, I was hooked. I wasn't attracted to boarding because it was cool, it was just more fun. However, when the snow was old and hard, soft boot boarding wasn't much fun. Then I saw some guys on these funny, long boards with hard boots that looked like they were having a blast on hard snow. I've slowly learned this sport though I soft boot when conditions are right. I did try skiing again about 5 years ago but found myself thinking "this would be more fun on a board".

Many of my friends who grew up skiing taught their kids to ski. I think that's how skiing is perpetuated more than boarding. They are skeptical of boarding. Skiing has gotten more "cool" because of modern equipment and young, pipe and park stars. Also, I think it is easier for a very young kid to get by on skis than with their feet tied to one board.

[Jack M]

Hello, Jack... that may be true, and I do not know if it correlates to World Cup racing (since they're pretty much the first stamp for the next generation batches of skis), but I reckon a ski racer friend of mine and I were conversing on how the FIS is now dictating straight skis would be eligible and Shaped Skis are out. I just hope it only limits to the racers, not the general public.

My understanding is that is only for GS, SG, and DH, due to an increase in knee injuries since the advent of racing on shaped skis.

Besides, world cup racing is a far less significant indicator than it used to be, on the trends of next year's skis for the general public anyway. I am talking more about all-mtn and new school freestyle skis.

This is what the kids want to be doing these days...

he's 11.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jack Michaud

[Jack M]

Around 1990 or so, I tried snowboarding because I was getting bored with skiing.

That is a big reason why many people try snowboarding, but now there is so much more to do on skis than there used to be. Between parks and pipes and glades that were previously off limits or non-existent, and all the different kinds of skis available, that day of boredom may never come for many people. Will my son be bored with skiing by the time he is 13, the age I started boarding? These days I wouldn't want to make that prediction.

I did try skiing again about 5 years ago but found myself thinking "this would be more fun on a board".

I think that every time I ski except when it is horribly icy. But that's just because I'm better at boarding.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't think the writers of the article would be concerned at all if the snowboarders were switching to skiis - they are interested in lift tickets sold. The problem would appear to be snowboarders just quitting, or alternately getting older and reducing hill time, much like skiers.

[John E]

I'd agree on the number of lift tickets (and $s of equipment) sold. I think the main message of the article is that the surge in snowboarding has reversed. Whether or not the increased popularity in skiing will fill the gap is uncertain. Baby boomers are aging and not skiing as much. Their kids may not be able to afford to fill the gap. Also, when the 20 and 30 something start having kids, they may stop snow sliding sports and may or may not return.

[softbootsurfer]

Good times and Bad times economically would be the first place to look.... for years the middle class could actually afford to take the family skiing...that is no longer the case. Many of todays college age kids are strapped to a mountain of debt for their college educations as well... I would be surprised if there was any growth under the current scenario and expect more and more areas to go out of business over the coming decades. whether skiing or boarding, a family vacation to the mountains with Transportation, Equipment, Clothing Housing, Food and lift tickets is now squarely out of the price range for 95% of american households...

[boarderboy]

Good times and Bad times economically would be the first place to look.... whether skiing or boarding, a family vacation to the mountains with Transportation, Equipment, Clothing Housing, Food and lift tickets is now squarely out of the price range for 95% of american households...

Don't know about the percentage, but your premise is dead-on, and has certainly been the case for our family during "the recent unpleasantness." Hoping, for the second year in a row, that we'll be able to afford a few regional trips next season.

But here's the big question - even if/as the economy does improve, the likelihood is that fuel prices/travel cost will continue to rise, families will continue to pay increasing costs for healthcare & education, and (questionable but my belief) weather/snow cover will likely be less consistent - can resorts, equipment manufacturers, etc. adapt and survive?

I don't, for a moment, dispute the value of custom boards and low-production-volume boots & bindings for our niche sport. But snowboarders, let alone hardbooters, will likely never sustain sprawling mega resorts. (Though maybe a few spartan, Mad River Glens in the heart of snow country?)

But, on a larger scale, can slimmed-down, non-luxury slope operations be designed for, and survive in, this new "climate." (Oboy, here we go...) Can resorts favor narrower, north facing runs that benefit from trail-side shade and concentrated snowmaking/grooming - some, perhaps, served by Pomas or rope tows? Can luxury condo's be augmented with pocket-friendly ski dorms & hostels, etc? Can alternative energy sources - wind, solar, geothernal, micro-hydro power & heating contain long-term costs in some areas?

My hope/belief is that, yes, less opulent, highly energy efficient resorts could, and are (?) beginning to, evolve, but (1) there has to be industry vision and desire, (2) mass market ski/board manufacturers must respond to "lesser expectations," and (3) there, of course, has to be a willing and enabled user base & market. On the latter question I don't pretend to know the likelihood or answer.

For me, I suspect nothing will ever replace the "rush" of free-carving a winding, tree-lined, mountain trail. But, for the moment at least, day trips to the shore, with a duffer and budget-friendly foam board strapped to the Beetle, are much more attainable, and, sadly, more likely.

Hopefully

BB

Edited May 15, 2012 by boarderboy

[Aracan]

I grew up skiing. Though I never raced, I got to be a fairly expert skier. Around 1990 or so, I tried snowboarding because I was getting bored with skiing.

Pretty much my story. I did take up skiing again when my daughter wanted to start - a snowboard doesn't give you enough flexibility to introduce a 2 y/o to the joys of the hill. I found the shaped skis easier than what I was used to, but I didn't notice that much of a difference. Now the little one is finally big enough to try snowboarding, which was what she had been looking forward to for three years - stood her first turn this past April http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/images/smilies/lol.gif

[scrapster]

I can relate to the "getting bored on skis" experience. While I didn't come close to reaching expert status when I started, skiing on mid-atlantic ice and hardpack year in and year out did grow tiresome. On a snowboard, I saw trails in a completely different light. I agree with Jack though--the skiing experience has changed quite a bit. Case in point: I'm always interested in how many harbooters whip out the skis when the conditions get dicey, instead of grabbing softboot boards.

I wonder if snowboarding gradually loses older folks because of mainstream/commercial snowboarding culture and its associated equipment? I feel really old in most snowboard shops--and the equipment looks silly. I don't feel that way in most ski shops.

[Steve Prokopiw]

Despite being a hardbooting boarder myself,I sold my kids' souls to skiing, along with my own, because they are so darn good so much sooner than I anticipated.To have either of them snowboard right now is a day that reminds me why I chose against teaching teach young kids most of my snowboard instruction career.Skiing just gets them all over the mountain with very little trouble, logistically,keeping up with their carving daddy as we go everywhere we are allowed to.They show me tree runs now.Awesome!

I should add,however,that is is very rewarding to teach them snowboarding.It just isn't nearly the amount of fun as with them skiing right now.Maybe in the near future that will change,but Nathan and Evan still remind me often of how I escaped skiing this winter but I will have to ski with them 'lots' next winter.Never too old to learn:-)

Edited May 15, 2012 by Steve Prokopiw

[John E]

You're experience with kids sounds common. The one exception is Inkaholic's kid - Kai. Ink is an expert carver, ex-racer and coach. He is a great teacher. As a result his kid (Kai) who is about 8 or 10 Y.O. (?) is a great snowboarder. It won't be long before he is shaming all of us old guys.

[Steve Prokopiw]

You're experience with kids sounds common. The one exception is Inkaholic's kid - Kai. Ink is an expert carver, ex-racer and coach. He is a great teacher. As a result his kid (Kai) who is about 8 or 10 Y.O. (?) is a great snowboarder. It won't be long before he is shaming all of us old guys.

Including the Winters boys and a few other riders who are in their teens that post here.I have no doubt my boys can eventually be there too if they so choose,but it's all about the moment and the fun they have on skis right now.

[big mario]

It won't be long before he is shaming all of us old guys.

Kai is 8 and he already is shaming most of us, the kid seriously rips!

mario

[Steve Prokopiw]

As far as stats go,I wonder if there are numbers for those who do both skiing and snowboarding.I think of my boys as doing both even if we have more fun as a family with them on skis.They get to 'earn' snowboard time by being productive in their weekly ski program.That was Nathan's reward on the Sundays he had the gopro on his board.I also think that snowboarding demands a higher level of physical fitness and strength to be enjoyed as much as skiing for lower skill levels.And we all know where we are headed as a society in that regard...

[philw]

...I wonder if snowboarding gradually loses older folks because of mainstream/commercial snowboarding culture and its associated equipment? I feel really old in most snowboard shops--and the equipment looks silly. I don't feel that way in most ski shops.

That's an interesting point.

Skiing appeals to kids again, and I think the snowboarding demographic is aging (as per the OP), yet snowboarding marketing doesn't seem to have adjusted.

What do I mean? Well, let's see... so most snowboarders are late 20s. So we have a bunch of 30-year old rather overweight people... buying trick snowboards so they can perform the sort of aerial ballet that thirteen-year-old skateboarders do down the street here. Whilst being burned off by intermediate skiers. The marketing is kiddie oriented, and the equipment... well it's the same they were selling a decade ago. An engineering disaster made from tie-wraps (cable ties).

So I think that you have a good point there.

[scrapster]

That's an interesting point.

So we have a bunch of 30-year old rather overweight people... buying trick snowboards so they can perform the sort of aerial ballet that thirteen-year-old skateboarders do down the street here. Whilst being burned off by intermediate skiers. The marketing is kiddie oriented, and the equipment... well it's the same they were selling a decade ago. An engineering disaster made from tie-wraps (cable ties).

The graphics don't exactly help either, on the boards or the clothing.

As to another point, I'm still amused when people express shock that I both ski and snowboard. Must be some sort of cognitive dissonance in the general population.

[LeeW]

Case in point: I'm always interested in how many harbooters whip out the skis when the conditions get dicey, instead of grabbing softboot boards.

Oh, TRUST me, it's ALOT of fun especially by the fact I use UPZ boots exclusively for skiing (I haven't swapped my boots back to hardbooting since I knocked the wind out of me with uh... bluebird, and shredderjen. :) And that was ages ago.

The last time I whipped out softboots was good number of years ago when the snow was DEEP powder and hadda pull my long gun out (Lib Tech Litigator).

Nevertheless, since I graduated to fat skis of lib tech NAS, I look forward to use it for deep powder. :) Carving, I still carve the s--t out of my lib tech skis. :)

The graphics don't exactly help either, on the boards or the clothing.

As to another point, I'm still amused when people express shock that I both ski and snowboard. Must be some sort of cognitive dissonance in the general population.

Well said!

Edited May 17, 2012 by LeeW

[BlueB]

Lots of good points in this thread...

Yeah, BoaredBoy's got it right. The resorts would have to rethink their stucture and mode of operation. It seems to me that smaller local resorts would profit, if they can keep it pretty bare bones and afordable. However, the big guys, far from the big cities, that can not rely on day visitors will struggle...

Time for snowboarding industry to reinvent itself, too.