Odd Job Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Season here starts for me this Wednesday, I've been riding all of last season on my softboot board at 48/42. How will hardboots be? I'm anxious as I'm worried about being super rusty, should I take out my hardboots first for first chair? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Take the softies out first, and make sure you can carve the downhill edge. If you can do that, the transition to hardboots will be easier. If you can't do that, try The Norm to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 This will be my first time ever on hardboots, I can't wait :) Is it normal not to be able to get that low? I realized i can only bend from the knees and can't get anywhere near as low as I can with high angles on a softboot board (Probably the softboots are flexing to allow me to get lower, my AF700's are.. not) Will the extra leverage from the hardboots compensate for this? or will I need to change something to be able to get low for high speed ice riding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 What Jack said. Ride your soft set up to get the muscle memory back. Set your binding angles on your plate set up as low as you can without a lot of toe/heel overhang. Start your turns before you pick up a lot of speed from the fall line--that's what is meant by carving the downhill edge. Your turn starts before you are heading downhill. This will help keep your speed in check....and patience grasshopper. Give yourself a chance to get used to those boots.... Leave the high speed ice carving for your 2nd day:D You're gonna love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 This will be my first time ever on hardboots, I can't wait :)Is it normal not to be able to get that low? I realized i can only bend from the knees and can't get anywhere near as low as I can with high angles on a softboot board (Probably the softboots are flexing to allow me to get lower, my AF700's are.. not) Will the extra leverage from the hardboots compensate for this? or will I need to change something to be able to get low for high speed ice riding? Don't worry about getting low, focus on getting proper position first. If you actually try and get low typically people will break at the waist which destroys their riding position. Focus on bending away from the snow to keep your shoulders parallel to the snow and your weight over the carving edge. When I started thinking about this the next thing I knew were my hands were on the ground. BTW you can flex your hard boots at the ankle joint, you just have to drive with your knees and hips to do it. If you are thinking about flexing your ankles then you are flexing using the small muscles at the ankle joint. If, instead of trying to flex your ankle, you think about driving your knees and hips forward; the boot will flex at the ankle joint. Essentially you are levering on the boot using your lower leg. If you plant your feet on the carpet in your carving stance and shift your hips forward you'll notice you have to flex at your ankle joint. Once you see that try it with your boots on and clipped into your board on the carpet and you'll start seeing the boot flex. When I shift my weight towards the nose or tail of the board I think about moving my hips forward or back, and I keep my upper body in line with my hips so that I don't break at the waist. While posting a picture of myself is just inviting criticism of my own, admittedly crappy, technique it is probably the best way to show you this. So here goes. The best place to see this ankle bend is in the turn initiations because weight is moving forward to increase pressure on the nose of the board, to make the front corner of the board bite. Here's a rather crappy shot of me coming out of a toeside turn and beginning the transition to a heel side turn. My upper body is currently facing the front of the board because I'm starting to rotate my upper body into the heel side turn, my hips are driven forward and you can see how much the back ankle is flexed. Or maybe not due to the black pants. Note that I ride with a centred stance (3 degrees of heel and toe lift), so in order for me to get forward like this I have to flex at the ankles. Oh and +1 to riding softboots to get the muscle memory and feel back first. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I've been riding all of last season on my softboot board at 48/42. How will hardboots be? More or less the same, unless you are doing one or both incorrectly. 1. Find a stretch of familiar twisty road. When it is clear and dry, drive through with your cruise control set at the posted limit, without touching the pedals. Repeat as desired, maybe through a pair of binoculars. 2. Pick your favorite episode of the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy, and watch until the riders viewpoint footage begins to slow down. 3. On your soft-serve board, make a series of runs without any speed checks whatsoever, controlling your rate of descent with line, rather than friction. This will work better if you start on very easy, nearly flat terrain, so as not to reactivate muscle memory from previous years. (Summer is an effective sorbet.) D. If getting low is your goal, forget the board and lie down on the snow. Otherwise, move your base of support out from under your center of mass to create your lean angle. e. Trying harder may not improve the outcome. f. Leave the party well before the beer runs out. 7. Transfer positive results to your new board. 8. Pursue the above at your own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardguru Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I like those kinda training tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 This will be my first time ever on hardboots, I can't wait :)Is it normal not to be able to get that low? I realized i can only bend from the knees and can't get anywhere near as low as I can with high angles on a softboot board (Probably the softboots are flexing to allow me to get lower, my AF700's are.. not) Will the extra leverage from the hardboots compensate for this? or will I need to change something to be able to get low for high speed ice riding? I think you're talking about not being able to flex your ankles as much. This is normal, you can't do it unless you are riding and carving at a pretty good clip. Forget about what it feels like in your living room. But seriously do not try your hardboots until you are carving on easy trails in your softboots. Ideally you should be able to make a line in the snow almost like this: in your softies. Minimally, you need to be able to change edges before the board points downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Funny as hell! lol Jack, are you talking about getting warmed up before going to the hardboots this season? or overall softboot carving ability-wise? More or less the same, unless you are doing one or both incorrectly.1. Find a stretch of familiar twisty road. When it is clear and dry, drive through with your cruise control set at the posted limit, without touching the pedals. Repeat as desired, maybe through a pair of binoculars. 2. Pick your favorite episode of the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy, and watch until the riders viewpoint footage begins to slow down. 3. On your soft-serve board, make a series of runs without any speed checks whatsoever, controlling your rate of descent with line, rather than friction. This will work better if you start on very easy, nearly flat terrain, so as not to reactivate muscle memory from previous years. (Summer is an effective sorbet.) D. If getting low is your goal, forget the board and lie down on the snow. Otherwise, move your base of support out from under your center of mass to create your lean angle. e. Trying harder may not improve the outcome. f. Leave the party well before the beer runs out. 7. Transfer positive results to your new board. 8. Pursue the above at your own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 bomber td1 bindnigs 0 cant front 3 rear stance is about 18 inches at about 57.5/48.5 degrees (guessing cause td1's don't show you exactly where the angles are). I have flat feet, bow legged too, adjusted boot cants for this. the splay is cause I'm also duck footed more than usual + the lower it goes on the rear foot, the more canting I get vs heel lift. I'm about 5 9. I can squat, but it definitely isn't from the ankles and it feels more like a squat biased towards my heelside edge. I get now why some people look sorta funny with their knees bent on alpine setups. about 1/4 gilmour bias with forward lean adjusted (I ride with gilmour bias on my softboot setup too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Jack, are you talking about getting warmed up before going to the hardboots this season? or overall softboot carving ability-wise? Both. What is gilmour bias? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Well ability wise I am definitely there (no ego!.. ok some! lol), I'm still thinking about bringing out my hardboots first though, something about going on softboots, then wasting time to go switch back gear, then having the slopes thrashed. (I carved almost all of last season at night so I rarely touched groomed stuff, but it'd be nice to hit first tracks I think maybe with a hardboot?.. or not? The idea of riding it first is getting less scary now, I'm in fact getting stoked, lol) Yeah, I know you don't use gilmour bias anymore. You used to use it until you realized the angle penalty, then went back to normal centering, in fact you had to do "reverse bias" to keep the angles down on narrow boards with flaring sidecuts right? You like the lower angles cause it feels like a snowboard again. :P I'm a creeper, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transistor Rhythm Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 AF700's can be pretty stiff boots, I rode my Indy's in walkmode (this is not an advise) until I got my BTS (this is an advice) and cut off some plastic on the inside of the boot that caused friction. After doing so flexing at the ankles was really easy to do. So you could try riding VERY CAREFUL on an easy, empty slope in walkmode, and if this gives you the flex you were missing, order a BTS with the softest springs asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I have no walk mode, mine has the RAB system, hahaha. It's a minor gripe, all I really want to do is go out and ride. Hopefully I can post pictures of my first day ever snowboarding this season + first day ever hardbooting in my life. (will need to pick out a victim as a camera man, lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transistor Rhythm Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I have no walk mode, mine has the RAB system, hahaha.It's a minor gripe, all I really want to do is go out and ride. Maybe that's for the best, so you don't get tempted to ride unlocked ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 just put on the HB and Go... putting on your SB to get ready for HB is ridiculous... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarve Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 just put on the HB and Go I agree ^^^. Take the leap of faith and just do it (you can thank me later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Well ability wise I am definitely there (no ego!.. ok some! lol), I'm still thinking about bringing out my hardboots first though, something about going on softboots, then wasting time to go switch back gear, then having the slopes thrashed. (I carved almost all of last season at night so I rarely touched groomed stuff, but it'd be nice to hit first tracks I think maybe with a hardboot?.. or not? The idea of riding it first is getting less scary now, I'm in fact getting stoked, lol) Oh okay, didn't realize you were already making carves happen in your softies. Then sure, try the HB's first if you want. If you just can't get any joy, then maybe switch back to the softies and get a refresher on carving on familiar gear. FYI, softbootsailer (sic) does not use hardboots, so I'm not sure what qualifies him to say warming up on softboots before hardboots is ridiculous. Now, trying hardboots without already knowing how to carve in softboots would be ridiculous. Glad you're past that point! Yeah, I know you don't use gilmour bias anymore. You used to use it until you realized the angle penalty, then went back to normal centering, in fact you had to do "reverse bias" to keep the angles down on narrow boards with flaring sidecuts right? You like the lower angles cause it feels like a snowboard again. :P I'm a creeper, lol. Whoah! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 any stance width recommendations? I spent literally HOURS (even fiddling with rulers and protractors to measure my bootout and underhang with bias). with the gilmour bias I'm booting about at about 75 degrees on the rear toe. Going to fiddle around with my settings today again... wee! One more final to go so I'm not too worried about studying :D I'm doing this on a 175 prior with mondo 24.5 boots performance fit. (feet are about 25.6). 18cm waist with 12m sidecut. I'm 230 lbs so I can definitely flex this board silly. (LOL) remember height is 5 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Just make your stance width whatever is the most comfortable for you. If that's 18", so be it, but with you being bow-legged you would probably like a wider stance. I'm 5'6", slightly bow-legged and I run a 20" stance. Wait, if you run that wide don't you need more canting? I have the td1's, so the cant/lift is not independently adjustable. I only have 0 and 3 discs right now. PS: should the stance feel weird when standing with straight legs (almost like it's a bit too wide), but when you flex it feels sorta normal? or no? (Been struggling with this on both my hardboot/softboot setups). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Since you are tinkering, you may want to try the 3 in the front yard and the 0 out back. You just might find a better fit that way. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Have you thought about widening your stance some? 18" is pretty narrow. Try playing around with it some.. I am 5'2" and my stance is 19 inches....if you're too narrow you're going to lock yourself out. Also, I'd consider looking into some different cant angles too. 0 on the front might not do you any favors....try what INK said. The other thing is: stop reading articles on stance set up. It will confuse the crap out of you. Go out, make a few runs, see how it feels...tweek something to see how it feels. Repeat. Good luck, have fun and don't think about it so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 ..try what INK said. Go out, make a few runs, see how it feels...tweek something to see how it feels. Repeat. same advice I always give:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Set what you think is right, then stand there, watch a movie or something... If nothing feels too weird or hurting after a while, the stance is ok. Or, just go ride and do one small tweek at a time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Will do one last tweak, they bumped up the starting date.. IT'S TOMMORROW! OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG! I loveeeeeeee snowboarding. <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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