3 Strap Binding

Rocker_Binding · February 28, 2011

Clarified Post:

Do you think there would be a market for a 3 strap snowboard binding for soft boots?

It seems like there are several people who like the old Burton Torques and Flexes and I thinking about basically making a copy of one of these old bindings (http://www.rockerbinding.com/3_Strap_Binding.html).

There seemed to some confusion on the original post. So I hope this is clearer.

Original Post:

_ Do you think there would be a market for a 3 strap snowboard binding for soft boots?

_ I've been working on a snowboard design with 3 straps and an integrated hinge (http://www.rockerbinding.com/The_Rocker_Binding.html).

_ Talking to people lately there seem to be a descent number who are interested in a 3 strap binding. Mostly people want it for carving or

_ racing with a few who are interested in a 3 strap for ski boards.

_ With the work I've been doing it I could make a 3 strap binding. I think it would be easy to make one from the current binding I have. I

_ would just need to figure out the angle adjustments. I'm could either make a stand alone 3 strap binding

_ (http://www.rockerbinding.com/3_Strap_Binding.html) or custom highbacks for commercially avaliable baseplates

_ (http://www.rockerbinding.com/3rd_Strap_Highback.html).

_ Do you think there is a market for this?

February 28, 2011

forgive me...I must not be seeing something....isn't the rocker binding for soft boots? And aren't you already making it with 3 straps? I'm interested in it, just need money. Is your question whether or not you should take out a small business loan and start making a product inventory?

zoltan · February 28, 2011

Who are you marking this to? Who does the hinge help?

Jack M · February 28, 2011

Lose the klugy hinge and I think this may appeal to carvers.

Please don't resuscitate ancient dead threads to discuss this binding. Starting a new thread like this is the right way to do it. Thanks.

piusthedrcarve · February 28, 2011

Do you think there is a market for this?

I doubt it. As shown in your webpage here, poor detailed execution on your parts and assembly will not attract market, IMO. Cheap metal and rubber with cheap-ass bolts, washer, nuts without any detailing are for prototype. If you want to sell it, please look Here for fine craftsmanship

LeeW · February 28, 2011

I doubt it. As shown in your webpage here, poor detailed execution on your parts and assembly will not attract market, IMO. Cheap metal and rubber with cheap-ass bolts, washer, nuts without any detailing are for prototype. If you want to sell it, please look Here for fine craftsmanship

I beg to differ. This is where it is at: What's this?

However, it'd be interesting if it was three straps.

Rocker_Binding · March 1, 2011

Sorry for multiple posting. I’m pulling down all of the other posts besides this one.

Rocker_Binding · March 1, 2011

I doubt it. As shown in your webpage here, poor detailed execution on your parts and assembly will not attract market, IMO. Cheap metal and rubber with cheap-ass bolts, washer, nuts without any detailing are for prototype. If you want to sell it, please look Here for fine craftsmanship

I’m trying to keep the price down. That binding has a 125% higher price than mine. I’m not knocking it because it’s a good binding but I want to make my binding assessable.

Rocker_Binding · March 1, 2011

forgive me...I must not be seeing something....isn't the rocker binding for soft boots? And aren't you already making it with 3 straps? I'm interested in it, just need money. Is your question whether or not you should take out a small business loan and start making a product inventory?

Initially I was working on a version with 3 straps and a hinge. I’m wondering if there would be an interest in a version with 3 straps and no hinge. It would basically be a copy of an old 3 strap binding.

Rocker_Binding · March 1, 2011

Lose the klugy hinge and I think this may appeal to carvers.
Please don't resuscitate ancient dead threads to discuss this binding. Starting a new thread like this is the right way to do it. Thanks.

I guess it must not have been clear. I’m wondering about a version without the hinge. Just a 3 strap binding. I’ll make a correction to the original post to clarify.

I’m not exactly sure what to post and not. I know you should only post once. Is there someone who you can check with about posting? I don’t want to be annoying or make people mad.

Rocker_Binding · March 1, 2011

I beg to differ. This is where it is at: What's this?
However, it'd be interesting if it was three straps.

I was also thinking about making custom three strap highback. Using a baseplate and hardware from a rider's binding and custom making a highback with 3 straps which would could replace the existing highback.

Jack M · March 1, 2011

I guess it must not have been clear. I’m wondering about a version without the hinge. Just a 3 strap binding. I’ll make a correction to the original post to clarify.

Thanks, it wasn't clear at first.

I’m not exactly sure what to post and not. I know you should only post once. Is there someone who you can check with about posting? I don’t want to be annoying or make people mad.

Well, you'll notice this forum is minimally commercialized. That means we don't get paid to moderate it. We can't be consulting people on a regular basis of what is ok to post or not. You just need to use some common sense. Like, responding to a thread which hasn't been active since 2007 will usually not be received well. This is a relatively small, tight knit community with a conversational feel. Conduct yourself as if at an apres-ski bar or cocktail party (for grownups). If you want exposure for your product you should consider purchasing an ad like the ones in the upper right corner, or a vendor account.

Personally, IMO, if I were you I would give up on the whole-binding idea and concentrate on add-ons. I don't see a need for the hinge thing for anybody, and I think the bottom half of softboot bindings has pretty much been perfected by many. Your binding core does not compete with the others. I'd rather see an aftermarket highback with a 3rd strap or a tongue (a la the old Kelly or Elfgen tongues) that could be added to existing bindings.

Rocker_Binding · March 1, 2011

Well, you'll notice this forum is minimally commercialized. That means we don't get paid to moderate it.

...

I'd rather see an aftermarket highback with a 3rd strap or a tongue (a la the old Kelly or Elfgen tongues) that could be added to existing bindings.

I'm trying to get conceptual opinions on bindings. I'm not really pushing the bindings. Right now I break even on them so it's not the sales and exposure I'm trying to get, it more what people think of the idea and improvements which could be made. Is that ok?

What do you think of the hinge in the sidewinders?

http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/td3_SW.cfm

Jack M · March 1, 2011

I'm trying to get conceptual opinions on bindings. I'm not really pushing the bindings. Right now I break even on them so it's not the sales and exposure I'm trying to get, it more what people think of the idea and improvements which could be made. Is that ok?

fine with me.

What do you think of the hinge in the sidewinders?
http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/td3_SW.cfm

Surely you are not comparing hardboot bindings with softboot bindings, right?

jtslalom · March 1, 2011

Do you think there would be a market for a 3 strap snowboard binding for soft boots?

NO.

Good luck selling your bindings. I hope it works out for you

Rocker_Binding · March 1, 2011

fine with me.
Surely you are not comparing hardboot bindings with softboot bindings, right?

Not one a one to comparison. On sort of a larger picture conceptual level with the concept of lateral motion.

IMO, on a general level, when your riding a binding it doesn't matter if the support comes from the boot (hard boots) or comes from the binding (soft boots). With good design you should be able to design identical performance (I'm not saying it's that way right now with binding). The thing in my mind that determines the better design would be weather you want a rigid boot to walk around in or a soft boot to walk around in. This is more a philosophical debate. Putting it into to practice to get equal support out of a hard boot and soft boot can be a bit more challenging and definitely hasn't been done.

Jack M · March 1, 2011

Not one a one to comparison. On sort of a larger picture conceptual level with the concept of lateral motion.

The two aren't really comparable at all because of the vast differences in flex characteristics of the boot/binding combos. I would tell you what I think of Sidewinders, but it is not relevant to this discussion. Personally I don't see a need for hinge in softboot bindings at all, because of the greater range of motion of the ankle. Unless your binding was as stiff as hardboots. It looks like yours is not.

IMO, on a general level, when you're riding a binding it doesn't matter if the support comes from the boot (hard boots) or comes from the binding (soft boots). With good design you should be able to design identical performance (I'm not saying it's that way right now with binding).

A softboot binding that could provide hardboot-type support and performance would have to basically be a hardboot that bolts to the board and opens up like a clamshell to let your softboot in and out. I think Flow bindings are closest to this. Make the tongue rigid, taller, and wrap around more and voila. As for a 3-strap binding, I think making one to equal hardboots will turn out looking much beefier, more enclosed, and nothing like the binding you've got going.

However for ultimate carving and racing performance, hardboots will always be the choice.

The thing in my mind that determines the better design would be whether you want a rigid boot to walk around in or a soft boot to walk around in. This is more a philosophical debate. Putting it into to practice to get equal support out of a hard boot and soft boot can be a bit more challenging and definitely hasn't been done.

It's been done in Rollerblades, if that matters. Real freeride snowboarders spend way more of their day riding than walking, so I personally can't really fathom buying boots with walking as a criterion. Unless we're talking backcountry or hiking a pipe or a jump over and over. The only time I am sick of having my hardboots on is in the apres-ski bar with the onset of swamp-foot, and then I just take the boots off.

dingbat · March 1, 2011

The thing in my mind that determines the better design would be weather you want a rigid boot to walk around in or a soft boot to walk around in. This is more a philosophical debate. Putting it into to practice to get equal support out of a hard boot and soft boot can be a bit more challenging and definitely hasn't been done.

If you have to walk any significant amount in a hard boot you get used to it and it becomes a non issue. I have one of the stiffest hard boots on the market, spend more time in them than any other footwear I own from November through March, and it doesn't bother me a bit other than having to lodge them against the sides of the steel ladders up to the drive houses on the lifts so I don't slip off the rungs. If someone is basing their boot selection on the walk from the parking lot or hanging out apres-ski, I doubt it matters what boot they choose anyway when it comes to being on the board.

queequeg · March 1, 2011

If you have to walk any significant amount in a hard boot you get used to it and it becomes a non issue. I have one of the stiffest hard boots on the market, spend more time in them than any other footwear I own from November through March, and it doesn't bother me a bit other than having to lodge them against the sides of the steel ladders up to the drive houses on the lifts so I don't slip off the rungs. If someone is basing their boot selection on the walk from the parking lot or hanging out apres-ski, I doubt it matters what boot they choose anyway when it comes to being on the board.

Ditto that. At SES this year I actually ended up spending over 10 hours in my hardboots one day, even went grocery shopping in them. Not a prob. They're comfy as bedroom slippers.

stupidlong · March 3, 2011

I've also thought of this like the old Burton flex high backs.

I ride alot in soft boots for teaching and like to lay my shins right into the toungs of my stiff soft boots. I've thought it would be fun to kick it back old school and make a tripple strap. my first burton cruzier 165 with straight edges had flex bindings but with shaved Sorrels for boots. the gboots had to much flex and constanly broke the third strap. with todays stiffer boots it may do better. plus plastics are more durable today. if you make a prototype for a RIDE binding Id love to try it . as all i ride are Ride bindings on my softy set-ups email me

Big D · March 3, 2011

I for one like the idea of a shin strap/third strap. As mentioned previously if they are durable and and ready to go I will be picking up a pair. Like others I think you can probably market the shin strap as it can also help eliminate heel lift to some degree and the toeside turn benefits are obvious. I will not be able to chime in on then hinge til I have tried it. Let the R&D continue.

Personally I like the idea of no hinge and just the three strap binding. I think they will sell as you would be the only game in town. The challenge would be staying competitive as Catek and many others make some good two strap bindings and it would probably not take much for them to add a third strap to theirs. It is all about timing and competitive foresight. Maybe an entry level model manufactured of plastics and a deluxe model manufactured from high quality alloys or aluminum. This would enable you to adapt and have something for the 4 day a year rider or the 100 day plus a year rider, or the low budget to the money no object crew.

Let the rebirth of learning commence.

scrapster · March 3, 2011

I'd also be in the market for a three-strapper. (Loved my old Burton Torques back in the day--although plastic disc kept cracking.)

I guess the point of the hinge would be to compensate for a loss of lateral movement caused by the third strap. That being said, if the bindings could rotate to higher angles, that would largely become a moot point anyway. Actually, a great point of having a third strap is that it would probably open up somewhat steeper angles to folks on soft boots because you DO have more lateral stiffness.

Anyway, I ride softies at about 40/27+ degrees. I'd want a three-strapper that could reach those angles. No hinge needed.

ShawnGreen · July 1, 2011

Maybe you could design the binding to mount to Bomber disks? :confused:

softbootsurfer · July 1, 2011

Takes 5 minutes to make a pair... No they are not as Stiff as a Hardboot set up... roughly 90% forward flex and 60%

of the Lateral Flex... this Pair has over 200 days of use and has required 2 new buckles. I put a Booster strap on my Elite

when they added the highback to give me some support on my frontside turns... I ride certain runs certain ways, and

do not think that these bindings really belong on this site at all! Only HB will let you do Pure Carves...

I wanted to provide this Pic to the 3 people here who might be interested.

Rocker_Binding · July 1, 2011

I could definately design a pair to fit on a pair Bomber. If your interested send me an email at general@rockerbinding.com.

3 Strap Binding

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