Guest Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 What does "boot overhang" mean exactly? Does it mean that I draw a vertical plane from the edge up (to infinity) and the boots cannot break this plane? Or does it mean that the toe/toe bails and the heel/heel bail of the boot cannot pass a vertical plane that only extends say, 4 inches up? Why I ask: I am having trouble fitting my Head boots into TD2 step-ins without the back of the boot (about where the spring system is) breaking that vertical plane. The heel is behind the edge by almost 1cm, but the upper part of the boot sticks out. I can do pics if needed but I hope that this is an easy question :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Hooger Booger Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I would say the extremity of tolerable boot overhang depends on how hard you carve dude, if you're achieving maximum angulation regularly, boot overhang should be minimal. Don't bet it on my two cent opinion, seeing as i am a pretty new carver. I'm basing this on the fact that i rock size 10 ski boots and have to ride 60/60 angles on my old 158 Hooger Booger, and still have a fair bit of boot overhang, yet bootout was never a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 trying to go much deeper into the carves. I usually run 64/59 but I have a new wide-waist board and I wanted to try some lower angles, in the 50's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 If you lay your board on a carpet and boot out at +60 or +70 degrees I figure that is ok on all conditions except glare ice.. and if you can carve at 70+ degrees on glare ice .... well you are my new idol. At 70 degrees in chalk ..well you won't be arcing higher... and in packed powder if you arc higher.. the board will be so dug in that your boot likely won't unset it... That has been my experience. I set my hardboot boards to boot out at about 60 degrees and my softboot decks to boot out at about 55 degrees. If you flex the board into a thin rug and tilt it up.... and the boot hits the carpet... the angle of the board at that point shows where you would boot out on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Depends on the board and snow, but normally its to have no part of the boots or bindings protruding from the board edge looking top down. Im terrified of bootout. If theres fresh snow or its soft then I tuck the boots/bindings a bit further in, almost 2cm from the edge as I like to obliterate moguls by riding straight into them :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 If you lay your board on a carpet and boot out at +60 or +70 degrees I figure that is ok on all conditions except glare ice.. and if you can carve at 70+ degrees on glare ice .... well you are my new idol.At 70 degrees in chalk ..well you won't be arcing higher... and in packed powder if you arc higher.. the board will be so dug in that your boot likely won't unset it... That has been my experience. I set my hardboot boards to boot out at about 60 degrees and my softboot decks to boot out at about 55 degrees. If you flex the board into a thin rug and tilt it up.... and the boot hits the carpet... the angle of the board at that point shows where you would boot out on ice. This is a great post, and answers something I've been wondering about as well. Instead of flexing it on a carpet, buy a cheap angle meter for less than $10: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 What does "boot overhang" mean exactly?Does it mean that I draw a vertical plane from the edge up (to infinity) and the boots cannot break this plane? Exactly, yes, you answered your own quetion already. It is up to a rider to determine how much is too much for his riding style and conditions. Why I ask: I am having trouble fitting my Head boots into TD2 step-ins without the back of the boot (about where the spring system is) breaking that vertical plane. The heel is behind the edge by almost 1cm, but the upper part of the boot sticks out. I wouldn't worry too much about the upper parts of the boot. I'd bring that heel block right to the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 pokkis wrote a post on the extremecarving forum, about the 'fuego test'. have a read, it'll tell you if you've got boot overhang. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm going with John on this one. I was talking (briefly) with a L4 instructor who had seen me riding this weekend in Jasper. He's a hardbooter who used to coach PGS/PS as well. He also gets cred for identifying my entire riding set-up including calling my step-ins Fintecs. He suggested I back off my angles as it would allow me to pressure the edges by driving more directly with my knees. I skeptically responded that the bindings were set up so that the boots were inside of the board edges as I didn't want any drag. He said the board won't get that high. Looking at the photos in the "Personal best carving..." thread he's right. Even that heelside shot of Casper Carver laid out with his chest fully down his board isn't past about 60 to 70 degrees to the snow. I'm going to try pushing the angles down to where there is some boot overhang and see how it works out. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Boot overhanged=boot out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I was talking (briefly) with a L4 instructor who had seen me riding this weekend in Jasper. He's a hardbooter who used to coach PGS/PS as well. He also gets cred for identifying my entire riding set-up including calling my step-ins Fintecs. He suggested I back off my angles as it would allow me to pressure the edges by driving more directly with my knees. I skeptically responded that the bindings were set up so that the boots were inside of the board edges as I didn't want any drag. He said the board won't get that high. Looking at the photos in the "Personal best carving..." thread he's right. Even that heelside shot of Casper Carver laid out with his chest fully down his board isn't past about 60 to 70 degrees to the snow. I'm going to try pushing the angles down to where there is some boot overhang and see how it works out. If you ride steep terrain with hard snow, you may wish to consider that excess overhang at 90 degrees may preclude self arrest in the event of a fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/0405html/j6_0405.html http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/03html/p13_03.html http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/swoarders/s01.html http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/swoarders/s19.html In most cases you won't be at 90 degrees, however for EC, it's not unusual to be at some point close to 90 degrees, and esp. if you digging trenches in soft snow, you'll be below the actual snow level so it would not take much to boot out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 If you ride steep terrain with hard snow, you may wish to consider that excess overhang at 90 degrees may preclude self arrest in the event of a fall. As usual nicely put and a valid point. He was actually recommending only turning the back foot further out. Currently my stance is 65/60 (F/R). I need minimum 60 to keep all parts of my mondo 28 boot within the edges of a 21cm 13.4 SCR Schtubby. He was suggesting dropping the front to 60 and the back to about 45 which would allow me to direct more power to the edge of the board. I found his comment interesting mostly because I recalled this thread, and really we don't tip our boards up that high. I figured I would give it a shot because I'm not all that sensitive to binding angle, and the way I've been riding this year it can't hurt. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/0405html/j6_0405.htmlhttp://www.extremecarving.com/photos/03html/p13_03.html http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/swoarders/s01.html http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/swoarders/s19.html In most cases you won't be at 90 degrees, however for EC, it's not unusual to be at some point close to 90 degrees, and esp. if you digging trenches in soft snow, you'll be below the actual snow level so it would not take much to boot out. In soft pack the board and boot both sink into the snow. I'd say on hard pack you're more likely to boot out. Anyways I'll give this a shot and see how it works. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I had a craptacular day last season on some very hard snow. No matter what I did, there was just some threshold where I couldn't get lower on my heelsides. I was certain I was getting lower than that before, but I just kept losing the edge. Toesides felt fine though. I stopped and looked at one of my tracks. There was a nice arc that was about 1/2" deep that all of a sudden had a fairly wide scuff/scrape mark about 8" inside of it, then the carve oscillated and blew out. It was the upper cuff on my new UPZ boots, they stuck out further than the heel that I used to center the boots on the board. There were the requisite white chalky scrapes on my black pant cuffs to match. Duh! I didn't get the typical high-drag feeling of boot-out, it just levered the board off the snow. That was a pretty high angle when looking at it with a straight edge, I'm still not sure how or if I was actually tipping the board that high. 20 minutes with Mr. 5mm to re-center my boots and I was able to get a lot lower. I now set up with zero overhang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omskates Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Many Toe bails extend beyond the boot's toe. Should that be taken into account or just the shell on overhang? I wear M26 and have no issues at all with boot out on 20cm wide with 45/50. Blessed with small feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I didn't get the typical high-drag feeling of boot-out, it just levered the board off the snow. I've had exactly the feeling you are describing but only from burying the heelcup while soft booting. Either I'll have a problem with this and up my angles again or it'll work out fine. Either way I'll let you know I'm a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Hmmm never did get around to trying this out. Mostly because there are so few days left in the season and everytime I go out lately I'm having too much fun to want to spend time screwing around with my binding angles. Beyond that I just recently figured out how to toeside EC, so I'm of the opinion why change what already seems to be working for me. Thanks to everyone who talked me out of it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 About 55 degrees with your insane softboot carves? Heck, if I limit my boot out to 70 I'm at about 30 degrees on my binding angles or less, (not a wide board, the boots are size 9). If you lay your board on a carpet and boot out at +60 or +70 degrees I figure that is ok on all conditions except glare ice.. and if you can carve at 70+ degrees on glare ice .... well you are my new idol.At 70 degrees in chalk ..well you won't be arcing higher... and in packed powder if you arc higher.. the board will be so dug in that your boot likely won't unset it... That has been my experience. I set my hardboot boards to boot out at about 60 degrees and my softboot decks to boot out at about 55 degrees. If you flex the board into a thin rug and tilt it up.... and the boot hits the carpet... the angle of the board at that point shows where you would boot out on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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