Trouble switching to UPZ's?

[John Gilmour]

clean progressive softer flex????!!... I'm buying a set.

[DiveBomber]

I am having the opposite experience.

Went from

Head Stratos Pro

to

UPZ 10

Couldn't be happier(granted I only have one day on it). Didn't even mess with the boot much.

I did went from TD2.5 SI to TD3 SW.

The progressive flex of the boot make it work better for me.

It's also interesting that I feel the UPZ10 is much "softer".

I can flex the heck out of it; not like in the head where I feel I am locked in....

Sorry couldn't be of any help. Best of luck figure it out.

--

David

I do have the BTS on my Heads.

Ill bet you have a bit narrower stance, and are probably less affected by the differences.

[Alpinbogen]

I've been on UPZs for about 6 years. I really liked a pair of red 26M RSVs that I had, but they were a little too big. I downsized to a 25M RC10 this year for a tighter fit. I really like the boot and the super precision that the stock liner gives (zero heel lift, zero foot slop, much more control than before), but I can't stand that liner for more than 2 runs before I have to get out of the boots. So far, I've tried to make 3 liners work without success: the stock liners, new 25M red Speed liners, and my old 26M black Speed liners.

Noticing the stock liner discomfort when I bought the boots, I ordered a new pair of 25M red Speed liners, and took them straight to a bootfitter to heat mold before the season began. He said they are too high volume for the boot (they bulge from the shell somewhat), and didn't even try to heat mold them. He said to stick with the stock "racing" liners, so I took his word for it and put the new Speeds back in the box. At the time, the worst part about the stock liners was pain around my ankles, so he ground out some of the shell. (That hadn't even been an issue when I "rug" tested the boots with my old 26M black Speed liners.) He also made custom footbeds for me.

Now that the season has started, I've tried the stock liners on snow twice and have crazy pain in my arches, and something is up with my big toe that feels like it's sprained in that liner. Each time, I had to stop and throw my old 26M black Speed liners in to get through the day, which feels sloppy, but eliminates the pain. I need to do something, and I think the black Speed liners (even if got the proper size) are just too soft. I've love the have the stiffer red Speeds in there, but was told their volume would be an issue. Has anyone else used the red Speeds in UPZs?

[DiveBomber]

Ok, well I think the problem pretty much boils down to the UPZ's being more level than the heads.

I raised the heel of the catek to the point it would be unsafe to ride, as both the King pin, and rear set screws are only holding on by a couple threads. But just to get in position and see if it was the answer.

It seems like the UPZ's have approx. 3deg LESS heel height.

As I put my head boot on my front foot and the UPZ on the rear foot which has the footbed, and a 10mm dense foam heel wedge. and NOW they feel about level with each other.

SOOoooo, that would mean I need another 10mm wedge to make it like it was with the Head boot was naturally.

SHeesh.

any opinions on the best solution?? Because the problem is I can make it with work with the cateks (though I need to get an XL kingpin and set screws)

but other bindings wont work.

Then again how can I adjust the boot???

[zoltan]

I've love the have the stiffer red Speeds in there, but was told their volume would be an issue. Has anyone else used the red Speeds in UPZs?

If that's what you feel like you need, then why not just do it? Worst comes to worst it doesn't fit right, and you go back to having the original problem.

Forget having a shop do it, and just do it yourself at home. I've found I do much better job than the shop since I pay much closer attention to details. Here are a good set of instructions:

http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_cooking.htm

[Corey]

It seems like the UPZ's have approx. 3deg LESS heel height.

Very interesting! Sorry, I was incorrect earlier.

What about a spacer placed between the baseplate and the heel block on the rear binding? Obviously you'd need longer screws.

[DiveBomber]

Very interesting! Sorry, I was incorrect earlier.

What about a spacer placed between the baseplate and the heel block on the rear binding? Obviously you'd need longer screws.

Maybe I should clarify, its actually the other way around, the UPZ's have a higher toe. SO its kind of like the difference between standing in sneakers and on your bare feet.

I actually do have a 1/4" rubber spacer on the rear intec receiver. but I have a plastic one i may switch to.

[DiveBomber]

OK well , I think im about to give up on these. I put 2 boards next to each other and then placed My head boot in the front bindning of one boards and the UPZ in the front binding of the other board. Then (with a Head boot on my rear foot) I put my front foot in the Head boot first, then as quickly as i could, pulled my foot out and put it in the upz on the other board.

Immediately noticed a difference. It was just the way the boot holds my lower leg( I think) it just holds me from rotating my waist I dont think it has to do with the flex, (at least not front to back).

It was making it hard to get low properley, I would get low but it made me open up, and screwed up my technique, and thus screwing up my heel sides, not to mention transitions were sloppy, and when it got sketchy, I felt like I didnt have near the amount of control.

I guess in a way to me they felt like i was wearing a cast, not due to the stiffness of the boot(again they didnt feel that stiff) but it was almost like not so much that I couldnt move the boot, but the boot wasnt letting me move.

Blahhh this sucks, wasted money, effort and a couple trips to the mtn..

Well, so its looking like theres going to be some White RC-10, 29.5 for sale. :(

[Flywalker]

l have only had two very short days in my 2011 RC10's so my experience is very limited. However, compared to my old Burton Reactors, something l notice is that the lateral flex of the boot is much different. l believe these boots have an asymmetric lateral flex pattern meaning that when pushing one's knees to the inside, there is a greater amount of resistance than pushing to the outside.

l'm running TD3 SW's so the lateral flex in the binding is masking this sensation somewhat. Still... l have been wondering whether messing with the boot canting would help the situation. Perhaps re-aligning the cuffs to allow more rotation...?

[BLOODTYPEZX10R]

well I would have to agree with his frustration. I spent about 6 runs yesterday trying to get set-up and at the very best is a compromise. A very uncomfortable compromise. I feel the boots are not that stiff, i get a ton of heel lift ( I can feel the liner moving up and down in the boot and I am cranked in) I went back, forward, together, apart, more angle, less angle, bla bla bla. I could not set an edge and when I did it felt wrong. I guess that is what you get after the same boots for 15 years. I really liked my Raichle boots. They were the warmest boots I have ever had even in sub 0 temps. I needed an up-grade and am confident I will get them set but was hoping it was not going to take 2 days to do it.

I don't agree that the bed is shorter though. I had to reset my bindings longer to make the fit and they are the same mondo size as my Raichles.

[zoltan]

...i get a ton of heel lift ( I can feel the liner moving up and down in the boot and I am cranked in)...I don't agree that the bed is shorter though. I had to reset my bindings longer to make the fit and they are the same mondo size as my Raichles.

It really sounds like either the Raichle boots are smaller than you think, or the UPZ boots are larger than you think.

[BLOODTYPEZX10R]

That does not explain more than one person is having troubles getting set-up. The size in comparable to the fit I feel with my old boots. Whatever; I am going to give a try again this friday.

[Ernie00]

don't give up on them. Took me a while but they do fell great. Same size for me 27 raichle and 27 UPZ.

They are COLD... I am thinking of trying them with my old raichle liner and if that works well either get a new one of dalbello.

[DiveBomber]

I have given up, maybe its my leg, maybe its the form of the boot, maybe its my style, I dont know. but it just feels wrong, and whats the point, if I ride 10X better in my old boots.

I notice there is this ON/OFF feeling on heelside turns, like as im going over the board goes from sketchy to too hard of a hook up, then im riding the tail and the transition is late, and that wont work in a race.

Im done, you can have em!

[b0ardski]

hey zx10, I'll be up friday, I'll look for ya.

Have you tried a molded liner?

I took a very well fitting stiff Nordica ski boot liner and it worked even better than my molded thermoflex.

[NateW]

I wish I had some useful insight here, but I'm just stumped. What positions are your forward lean adjusters set to? I have mine fully upright.

I UPZ

I went from Raichle 325/Lemans to UPZ and then bought a second pair of UPZs just in case. I use intuition liners, but it sounds like the issue here is with the boot geometry, not fit.

[LeeW]

Hmm. I have the older version of UPZ boots -- the red ones. I love them so much that I actually ski with them ALL THE TIME.

Uhm, a couple of insight that -might- be useful... when I switch to hardbooting from skiing, I leave the toe DIN on. And it does feel just -right- besides being extremely slippery with walking those around the place. It's lower. I'm able to lean forward on my Madd 158. With the hardboot toe Pads on, it feels too much of an "uppity." I like leaning foward as I charge down cranking some rails.

NOW, I do not know if it would be the same with the RC-10.

And

YES, those tongue liners are a B---H to deal with when inserting my feet in. -sigh-

[Flywalker]

l was feeling something very similar to you on my first day. l couldn't get my hip around on my heel side turn. l have just about eliminated the problem by sliding my rear binding sideways towards the toe side and then placing my toe as much on the edge as l can before boot out.

The recessed heel immediately biases the rider towards the heel edge. That little line on the bottom of my boots is way back of the center of the binding. l'm at the end of my adjustment within the bails to move my boot forward so by moving the whole binding sideways l managed to get my toe over the edge.

Seems to have done the trick.

[Skwalleur]

Interesting thread! Especially since I ordered a pair of UPZ ATB's yesterday and they will compliment (or replace?) my five year old Head Stratos Pro's.

I'll post my experiences once dialed in. ATB's are probably pretty different from the RC's though. Anyone with experience from the ATB's?

[DiveBomber]

well I think ive pretty much narrowed it down, and what it is,in my case anyway, is that the boot holds down my instep too much. Its like trying to run with out being able to lift up your heels.

maybe I have "tall" feet. I was able to slightly replicate it but tightening up the middle buckle on my Heads and though not to the same extent I did feel a similar sensation.

I guess I like to be able to stand on my toes when Im carving hard, and the UPZ's did not let me do that.

[zoltan]

Do you use footbeds?

[Skwalleur]

After a few days with my new ATB's on snow I've made some conclusions.

These new boots will evolve my riding. I never felt such "feel" for the boards compared to any boots I've ridden before (Burton Winds & Fires, Head Stratos, Stratos Pro).

The toebox was way too big for me out of the box though. An extra sole and the patches that came with the liner made things better, but I will probably have to go to a shop to make some more filling.

The ATB's are on the soft side of course, I had to struggle a bit more that I'm used to on the toeside. On the other hand my heelside was the other way around and I could angle the board and use the edges better than I've ever been able to.

Also riding switch on my #Two PB was never so easy.

[dmc]

First day out on new 2010/2011 UPZ RC-10—actually, my first day ever hardbooting period!

I was relieved to feel how roomy the toe box was. I have MP24.5 / US 7 EE wide feet and normally wear a US 8.5 or 9 street shoe to accommodate the width. My UPZ RC-10s are MP24. The wide toe/skinny heel definitely works well for my foot.

Getting the boot on and off is an absolute battle.

I can echo the sentiment above that I have been unable to center the boot on the binding (F2 INTEC Ti). With the medium F2 binding (supposedly good for MP 21.5 to 27.5) I have the heel bail adjusted all the way inboard and the boot's center marking is still a ways back. My HB experience is very limited though, so I will have to see if this becomes an issue.

So, a few questions to you UPZ owners:

- Are these Flo Liners actually heat moldable (aka Thermoflex, shove them in an oven)?

- And am I the only one that can't get the liner out without removing the tongue (and two screws)?

[Skwalleur]

I was relieved to feel how roomy the toe box was.

Getting the boot on and off is an absolute battle.

So, a few questions to you UPZ owners:

- Are these Flo Liners actually heat moldable (aka Thermoflex, shove them in an oven)?

- And am I the only one that can't get the liner out without removing the tongue (and two screws)?

That toebox was my nightmare since I have very narrow feet. I will mold new liners and see how it goes.

Actually these are the first boots I own that are easy to get in and out of and really ease to remove/insert the liners with.

Edit: Obviously the ATB and RC10 are very different concerning this.

[Flywalker]

Getting the boot on and off is an absolute battle.

I can echo the sentiment above that I have been unable to center the boot on the binding (F2 INTEC Ti). With the medium F2 binding (supposedly good for MP 21.5 to 27.5) I have the heel bail adjusted all the way inboard and the boot's center marking is still a ways back. My HB experience is very limited though, so I will have to see if this becomes an issue.

So, a few questions to you UPZ owners:

- Are these Flo Liners actually heat moldable (aka Thermoflex, shove them in an oven)?

- And am I the only one that can't get the liner out without removing the tongue (and two screws)?

First off... the boot is super easy to take off IF you unlock the rear mechanism BEFORE trying to tear the boot off your foot. Easy peazy lemon squeezy. Also... watch that the buckles don't re-fasten themselves as you are pulling off the boot.

As for the boot centering thing... forget it. Don't pay any attention to that arrow on the bottom of the boot. l tried to do that as well with my TD3 bindings and my Burton bindings and it just screwed everything up. Center your boot in your binding... meaning try to have the heel and toe bail equally adjusted. lf you want to try a toe forward bias on your back foot, move the whole binding towards the toe edge by turning the center disk sideways. l tried this and it DID help.... but l have since gone back to having my binding centered again and added a 6 degree heel lift instead. Your front foot will have a naturally occurring heel side bias anyway. l put a 3 degree toe lift on my front foot to neutralize the aggressive forward lean of the boot. Now, after 8 days my boots fit like they were built for me and perform very well.

The liners are NOT heat moldable like a Thermoflex. Just wear them around inside and they will take the shape of your foot. lf you want to speed up the process stick a hair dryer inside them for a while before putting them on but they'll get there without it. l have the same boot... anthracite RC10. They are more comfy with each day l wear them. Have patience (^_^)