Trouble switching to UPZ's?

[DiveBomber]

I just got my UPZs in, set them up and rode them today, and the boots fit fine, but something was off. I just couldnt get comfortable on the board.

Did anyone else have this issue?? Same board/set-up with my heads (bts, krypton liners) I was ripping, no problem.

With the UPZs I could never get a natural feeling on the board. Felt like my toe/rear hip was being pulled back. forcing me to open up and I couldnt square my hips (and therefore shoulders). I tried multiple settings (Cateks) and few even came close to being comfortable.

It felt like my stance wasnt wide enough, and kind of forced me to ride with my knees together, to be able to rotate, (but I felt really unbalanced)

It felt fine at home.

What am I missing here?

the 3 things that made a minor differnce

1. turning my front angle down one notch (didnt feel the way I like it but felt less like my hip was being pulled)

2. Putting the outer cant on the rear boot higher

3. a hair of toe lift on the front

I added more rear heel lift, to try and push my hip forward, but it didnt seem to help.

BTW the RC-10s felt just about the same as my heads, didnt notice much of any performance difference, so far; flex and fit were similar. (man, I really wish head would come out with a new boot for us!)

[kieran]

i read a comment by someone a while ago saying that UPZ boots had more heel lift built into them than other boots. maybe compare unbuckled foot angles on a flat surface?

[Corey]

UPZs have a LOT more heel lift than Deeluxe or Head. Just look at them from the side and think about where your heels sit.

I had an easy transition from Deeluxe 700T to UPZ RC-10 - once I adjusted the liners to fit well. ;)

[0815-fahrer]

Due to the short sole, it might be that the boots are too far to the rear in the bindings. There is a small "center line" between heel and toe piece on the bottom of the boots, they should nearly match the binding middle.

Raichle / Deeluxe have that center line too.

[Corey]

Bola's sarcasm aside: Note that the upper cuff/lean adjuster area sticks out further than you'd think. I was booting out the upper cuff at very high board angles when my toes and heels were centered over the edges. It's a slightly different feel than normal 'boot out' - took me a while to figure out. I now bias slightly towards the toe edge to avoid this.

[Transistor Rhythm]

Head boots are still available in Europe?

Raichle / Deeluxe have that center line too.

Had to check it to believe it, never noticed them before :) The middle of the binding should be in the middle of those two lines? I must confess I always set up my bindings just by watching how much boot out I want at the rear boot then add a little splay for the front foot, I never remember what the exact angles are, only how much boot is desireable.

[pow4ever]

Due to the short sole, it might be that the boots are too far to the rear in the bindings. There is a small "center line" between heel and toe piece on the bottom of the boots, they should nearly match the binding middle.

Raichle / Deeluxe have that center line too.

I learned somethign today!! Thanks!!

Very good to know.

--

David

[bobdea]

Thanks for pointing out basic fundamental principle of alpine setup that any proficient alpine rider should know. I think you nailed the problem.

learn more here

+1 but I must add that UPZ is a less user friendly boot than the other as far as getting them dialed in my experience and they are up high.

[ursle]

When setting up bindings one must use the center marks on the boots to measure distance between bindings...

I wonder what liner was in the heads, if it was intuition, there could be a bit of a difference between having a 1/2" of squishy foam underfoot vs having a nice solid platform to stand on, locked heel and no more squishiness underfoot were the big points for me when switching away from the foam liners, just sayin...

To me heads and upz's are very similar, heads need interior work to flex forward, but the spring assemblies are similar, you'd think they were almost made at the same place

[DiveBomber]

When setting up bindings one must use the center marks on the boots to measure distance between bindings...

I wonder what liner was in the heads, if it was intuition, there could be a bit of a difference between having a 1/2" of squishy foam underfoot vs having a nice solid platform to stand on, locked heel and no more squishiness underfoot were the big points for me when switching away from the foam liners, just sayin...

To me heads and upz's are very similar, heads need interior work to flex forward, but the spring assemblies are similar, you'd think they were almost made at the same place

Liners are out of Krypton Pros, with my SOLE footbeds. (i have cut the internal wings and added the BTS)

[DiveBomber]

Well I think i have it figured out.

The UPZ heel is NOT higher than other boots(at least Heads) and actually it feels like the toe on the the UPZ is higher.

I put one boot on each foot, and in the Head it feels like im standing on a slope and on the UPZ's my foot feels flat.

Now I should mention that I have a small heel wedge (for fit) under the foot bed in the rear Head. But I didnt think the difference would be so drastic.

Plus since I had assumed the UPZs were heel high, the difference would be made up.

(oh and I did adjust the bindings accordingly:rolleyes: )

[DiveBomber]

Damn, still no good. WTF is the deal??

how is it that I can feel like my stance is too narrow(21.75), and at the same time like my hips are being pulled open???

One thing Im thinking about, about the upper boot cuff. Im thinking maybe I can't rotate in the cuff.

In my heads I usually pull the tounge on the front boot to the inside (shift to the right) so I can lean into more, and can adjust my body to face forward more, while till having a more stable front foot angle.

Becuase one thing I notice , is that in the UPZs it feels like I want steeper front angle, but I know that would then make me less stable

how the heck can a boot cause this much trouble??

:(

[bjvircks]

... Note that the upper cuff/lean adjuster area sticks out further than you'd think...

I've wondered about this. If other hardboots and a UPZ all of comparable mondo were centered up using the mark each should have as their 'foot center' (boot center?) would the UPZ cuff/lean adjuster stick out any further than other boots, or other boots with BTS added?

[Ernie00]

got my upz last year and tongiht I had my first great evening with them. Took me a while to get used to them switching from deeluxe.. everyting I did didn't feel right and for some reason tonight it did. Not even sure what I did.. I didn't crank them down super tight and it felt awsome.

[DiveBomber]

I dont crank tight on them either, I'm on the first notch on the first 3 buckles, but id like to shoot the idiot that placed the 3rd buckle, I had to go to a shop and get a longer hookset, with the original one I was crushing my foot(with my foot bed in the boot)

however what I did do today (inside) is straighten the front boots upper cuff and lock it down, I think the natural lean of the boot is too forward and that was pulling my legs apart. ( at least I hope that helps)

and they I went to 22.0" stance. seems ok.

But I have to say overall, im not super enthralled with these, aside from the issues I have, I dont like the fact that you almost have to take the tounge off to pull the liners, I think the plastic toe peice sucks ass, im putting shoe goo on to make it have some traction. (why cant they make it like the burtons???)

I think the 5 buckles is a waste, and the ankle pivot should be lower, and the position of the middle buckle could be more around the ankle.

and Im starting to really not like the "shorter sole" because it now is a huge pain if i want to switch boots.

OH and I didnt think they were that stiff, my Heads with the stiffest tounges (i have 4 different ones) are stiffer

Grrr... money i could have put towards a custom prior BX

[Puddy Tat]

Funny I have a set of UPZ RTRs that I used last year for carving and AM riding. This year I bought a set of Track 225Ts for AM riding to get a softer surfier feel.

I thought the same thing but about the 225s. When I mounted up the board, with a 50/45 angles it felt like my hips were being pulled apart, and I couldn't align my body with the 225s just standing on the board on the carpet. I added a degree of inward canting to the bindings and this immediately went away. It was funny I didn't need this with the UPZs.

Perhaps the cuff canting is different between the UPZs and your other boots? If the UPZs had more outward cuff canting it could contribute to this.

Dave

[Bora20]

I dont crank tight on them either, I'm on the first notch on the first 3 buckles, but id like to shoot the idiot that placed the 3rd buckle, I had to go to a shop and get a longer hookset, with the original one I was crushing my foot(with my foot bed in the boot)

Mine were just like that. I changed the footbeds and went to a boot fitter. 30 minutes and $15 later they fit and feel like slippers.

Before I went I was on the first notch on each buckle with the 3rd buckle not done up. Now I am (in order from bottom to top) using 2,3,2,4,3 on both boots and they feel great.

I suggest you give that a try first. These are much better boots than the Burtons I was using last year.

And getting the liner out is super easy once you fold the tongue of the boot out of the way behind the cuff plastic. You can put the liner on first, they step in and flex the liner back. No issues at all.

I think I will get a thermo wrap liner for next year and see how they feel.

[DiveBomber]

I give up, its not working.

I went one notch wider to 22.0" stance and it still feels to narrow, its not that it feels a little narrow, it feels like im riding a 17" stance, how can that be!?!?!?

I took one run and just said screw it.

What other possible difference could there be??

PS there may be a pair of barely used 29.5 Rc-10s for sale soon!

[Beckmann AG]

What other possible difference could there be??

Any chance that the throttle response has changed, and your inputs have not?

[bobdea]

I give up, its not working.

I went one notch wider to 22.0" stance and it still feels to narrow, its not that it feels a little narrow, it feels like im riding a 17" stance, how can that be!?!?!?

I took one run and just said screw it.

What other possible difference could there be??

PS there may be a pair of barely used 29.5 Rc-10s for sale soon!

did you mess with the cuff alignment at all?

the UPZs take awhile to get dialed, give it time. I had to adjust both my bindings and the alignment on the boot to make them useable

[DiveBomber]

Any chance that the throttle response has changed, and your inputs have not?

Nah, im pretty sure its all about body positioning, im having a hard time rotating my core.

[DiveBomber]

did you mess with the cuff alignment at all?

the UPZs take awhile to get dialed, give it time. I had to adjust both my bindings and the alignment on the boot to make them useable

Yes and no, I did actually "rotate" the front cuff by moving the outer pivot backwards, made no difference.

But I THINK I've narrowed it down, I tried switching my rear boots between the UPZs and heads, and for what ever reason the UPZ is making my rear leg feel like it wants to straighten. but as the same time its forcing me to ride with my knees together, which seems the opposite of what id expect.

Ive even maxed out the rear heel lift on the bindings (catek)

the boot flex seems comparable and enough.

im guessing its sorta like if you are trying to get in that "starting block position, but your heel is being held to the floor.

anyway I think this may be the issue, actually its what I thought before but the adjust ments i tried didnt seem to make much differnece

[DiveBomber]

Ok another thing I just fooled around with that seemed to make a difference:

I opened all the buckles except the very top on and the strap, and that seems to make a difference, it let me spread my knees especialy when I did both boots...

what does that say?

(these boots arent good enough to be this much trouble!)

[pow4ever]

I am having the opposite experience.

Went from

Head Stratos Pro

to

UPZ 10

Couldn't be happier(granted I only have one day on it). Didn't even mess with the boot much.

I did went from TD2.5 SI to TD3 SW.

The progressive flex of the boot make it work better for me.

It's also interesting that I feel the UPZ10 is much "softer".

I can flex the heck out of it; not like in the head where I feel I am locked in....

Sorry couldn't be of any help. Best of luck figure it out.

--

David

[John Gilmour]

...snipped

however what I did do today (inside) is straighten the front boots upper cuff and lock it down, I think the natural lean of the boot is too forward and that was pulling my legs apart. ( at least I hope that helps)

and they I went to 22.0" stance. seems ok.

That will help with overall Gilmour bias. it puts the tibia shaft more directly over the heel for more powerful pressuring.. IMHO

ymmv