Boot Sizing / Fit Issue

[Alpinbogen]

Hoping to get some input from the boot experts on a fit problem and solution.

Boots: UPZ RSVs, size 26.0M (Overall, love the boot, especially since my wide feet are often problematic to fit.)

Empty Shell Fit: 2 fingers overlapped between heel and empty shell (1-1/8" to 1-1/4")

Liners: Black Speed

Issue: Heel lift and foot slop, especially at speed and during board chatter (bad enough to actually be scary sloppy at high speed on blacks)

Tried: Black speed liners (worked for a while, but now packed out), and cranking buckles way down, which only seems to squash the shell and not really draw it together...creates pain on top of foot, too.

Solutions? (looking for input here): replacing liners again with thicker Red Speeds (cheaper, but possibly only another temporary fix?) or getting new UPZs in a smaller 25.0M size (ie; one finger shell fit) and new liners.

[ursle]

I consider the liner more important than the shell.

Surefoot will mold a liner to your shell that will last five years or more and absolutely lock your heel down, is pretty warm and not hard to get into or out of.

Their orthodics are not Worth what they charge but if you don't have your own, well orthodics are a must inside the liners.

I happen to have a set of UPZ flow liners in a 26 if you want to try them, they have a silicon, cork material in the heel and ankle that flow around your foot, not as custom as surefoot but not bad and the price is a fraction of surefoots product.

[BobD]

For me, two fingers would be too much. From experience, I know that whatever I do inside the shell won't last, and the only real solution is a smaller shell.

[slopestar]

For me, two fingers would be too much. From experience, I know that whatever I do inside the shell won't last, and the only real solution is a smaller shell.

The boot/liner sizing is very important to me as I will need new or new used boots very soon. Mondo point sizing is down right confusing and no one ever references their US shoe size. Yet, there are always sizing questions and people left unsure...I have read and sized and tried several boots but still cant get it right.

[Beckmann AG]

Not an expert, but two fingers is a bit much. That's enough room to sublet for student housing...

For 'performance' (not 'competition') use, the foot should have ~5mm space around its periphery, when centered in the shell, no liner, no sock, preferably atop a quality footbed. More often than not, given the limited options in shell geometry, this will require a punch or two.

[Ear dragger]

you could go to a smaller shell and then get new liners, or just get new liners. They packed my boot with a bigger liner and it has worked out beautiful. no more painful heel lift. and for 2+ seasons on them. if you've got the dough for a complete new boot setup, by all means. but don't think you have to. the blow in liners are pretty awesome. I've got dalbello liners in mine. they are great too(i ride in rc10's btw).my boot is a 29, and i have 31 liners in them. great boot fitters are so important to those happy feet:1luvu:. my two cents

[slopestar]

And your US foot size is?

[kieran]

this may or may not be similar to the initial issue i was having with my 325's. the UPZ fastener layout is different so this may not apply.

i found when riding, i could tighten the ankle cable strap one, sometimes two notches further than when i wasn't on the board, just from the difference in posture.

heel lift issue solved for me. the toe cramps went away at the same time.

[Alpinbogen]

Slopestar, My feets measure 25.9 and 26.2 cm. Shoe size is usually 9-ish, sometimes a little bigger depending on manufacturer. The boots don't feel too sloppy on greens or gentler blues. It really shows up on faster blues and blacks though, actually to a frightening point as if my feet were bashing around inside an empty shell. Amazing how the difference in speed/power amplifies this.

There was a thread a while back on "race boot fit", which was pretty enlightening. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28424&highlight=boot+bit

I've played with the buckles, and after a certain point, I can see the boot is just squashing down and out, an no longer in and together. Just creates pressure points on the top of the foot.

My gut is that I really need to be in new boots to be happy this season. I put an email into Dan Yoja for sizing advise, thinking 24 or 25M. We'll see. Thicker replacement liners aren't off the table since they would certainly be cheaper.

[Bora20]

I've got dalbello liners in mine. they are great too(i ride in rc10's btw).my boot is a 29, and i have 31 liners in them. great boot fitters are so important to those happy feet:1luvu:. my two cents

There were no fit issues with having a 2 size larger liner in the boot? I have the UPZ 26 liners in my RC10 26 boots, but my left foot is a 26.5.

I am thinking that a 27 liner might work better on that side to give me a little more room, but I wasn't sure it would fit.

[snowboardfast]

You should go to a good boot fitter and explore all possibilties of a solution to your fitting problems if you haven't done so. I have made the mistake of buying boots that are too big and the only solution was to buy another pair that are the right size. If you are not using a custom insole you need to get some made as this will help with fitting and performance. The boots I have now are getting loose because the liners are getting packed out. I may try using some thicker socks for now but at some point I will have to get new liners. I would like to find a heat moldable liner that does not pack out real bad . I have a pair of intuition liners in one pair of boots and a pair of thermoflex in another. The intuition liners are thicker and have given me better results than the thermoflex which tend to pack out a lot because they are real thin. Maybe the newer thermoflex liners are way better? If I buy another pair of liners for my Susaka boots this will be the 3rd pair. I am not ready to do this just yet. I would like to know more info about injection foam molded liners. They are a lot of money but If they last a long time and retain proper fit better maybe better? They are going to have to be really good for me to spend 400.00 to get it done. Maybe more now as this was a few years ago.Bily Bordy suposedly did this a while ago? Would like to know how that worked out? If I find out I will post the info. I hope you can get your boots to fit right with out having to buy a new pair.

[Ear dragger]

my foot size is 11. also, upz boots come with pretty poor liners. best to replace them.

[ursle]

I would like to know more info about injection foam molded liners. They are a lot of money but If they last a long time and retain proper fit better maybe better? They are going to have to be really good for me to spend 400.00 to get it done. Maybe more now as this was a few years ago.Billy Bordy supposedly did this a while ago? Would like to know how that worked out? If I find out I will post the info. I hope you can get your boots to fit right with out having to buy a new pair.

Do a search of the Alexa Loo's stories from the last two years submitted by yyz, she mentions taking "friends"(JJ) into the surefoot shop at Copper for inner boot(conformable liners) fitting,(hmm,she hooked up with the boot fitter)

or search conformable liners to see who uses them here, injectable foam doesn't pack out in 10 days of use, more like 2 or 3 hundred days of use.

Strolz also markets an injectable liner, diablo also, or email hardbooter and get their opinion ;)

[Cyrus the virus]

my foot size is 11. also, upz boots come with pretty poor liners. best to replace them.

sorry, but the new UPZ liner is by far the best I have ever seen. I replaced my foam Strolz liner last year for the standart UPZ liner and its by far the best fitting and most comfortable I have ever had!

[Surf Quebec]

2 fingers is way too big for me.

After years of heel lift (even after seeing a bootfitter), I bought a small boot (HSP) and had a bootfitter enlarge the toe box.

I wear HSP 25.5 and my foot measure 26.9.

[queequeg]

IMO a two finger fit, is not a fit. Your shells are too big. I have slightly less than a one finger fit.

[zoltan]

Boots: UPZ RSVs, size 26.0M

My feets measure 25.9 and 26.2 cm.

As has already been said, your shells are too big. Your foot measuring 25.9 should have eliminated the 26 shell. Anything other than a smaller boot is a bandaid fix and won't work too well. Unfortunately I know this from experience. :(

[Race_Carver]

As others said, 2 fingers is too large for any type of performance fit. You will need to go down a shell size. If the smaller shells have tight spots, they are easily fixable by a good boot fitter. Don't just go to any ski shop to have this done. Find a fitter in your area that caters to the race crowd. Your feet and boots will thank you in the long run.

Getting different liners for your current shell size may help the problem for a few weeks, but as soon as they pack out, you will be back to square one.

I learned the hard way years ago when I started to use hard boots. I bought a boot that was not only too soft, but a size too big. I went into a fast heel side on steep hardpack, the board chattered hard, and I felt a burning sensation in my ankle. Had it checked out when I got home. Ended up with multiple hair line fractures in the joint. My left foot hurt for over a year until it cleared up.

[Alpinbogen]

Update; I ended up getting RC-10s in a 25M. Much better fit. Just one snug finger now. I spent the better part of the evening in and out of them now. Nice and snug. These will be much better. :D

The RC-10s are a nice improvement over the RSV's, too. The plastic tongue is longer and seems like it will hold the power strap instead of the too-short RSV tongue that lets the strap ride up onto your liner or shin right away. The stock liners have taken a huge leap over what they were as well, but still aren't great, IMO. Heel hold down with them seems excellent, as in zero lift. But, they allow ankle pain where the ankles press hard against the shell, near the hinge. I'm not fond of the liner tongue (edges tend to bite into the top of foot) or the shortish side height either.

I stuffed my 26M black Speed liners into the 25M shells for comparison. No ankle pain with those, but the heel lift returns. I'm just debating now whether to ride the stock liners (they actually "are" better than I expected) to see if I can stand them or not mess around and jump into properly sized Red Speeds or possibly Intuition Power Wraps. The Speeds are nice and tall, which I love, and the black ones were quite comfortable, but I worry they may not do much for heel hold down, even if properly sized. The Intuitions look more contoured to an actual foot and so I suspect they may have better heel hold down. I've never seen a pair of those, though, and can only guess at that, on height, and comfort.

[Bora20]

Did you add the velcro pieces to the ankle areas to force your heel into the boot?

[queequeg]

I'm just debating now whether to ride the stock liners.

Yeah, I thought I could get away with riding the stock liners when I got mine too. Run - don't walk away from those liners. Burn them. After about four hours in them I could not feel my feet at all. My heels felt like they were encased in a block of ice. I thought it was because they were frozen, but it was because there was absolutely no circulation going on in my feet. Horrible, horrible liners. Don't feel tempted to try this.

I'd recommend the Dalbello Gold ID liner ... I love mine!

[carvedog]

Do a search of the Alexa Loo's stories from the last two years submitted by yyz, she mentions taking "friends"(JJ) into the surefoot shop at Copper for inner boot(conformable liners) fitting,(hmm,she hooked up with the boot fitter)

or search conformable liners to see who uses them here, injectable foam doesn't pack out in 10 days of use, more like 2 or 3 hundred days of use.

Strolz also markets an injectable liner, diablo also, or email hardbooter and get their opinion ;)

I have Conformables. Good liner for sure. I have a couple hundred days on mine and no apparent packing out, looseness or heel lift. I have had several days where I was in them for 7 to 8 hours and was just fine. That doesn't mean I don't click my buckles open when on the lift or that I go apres in my boots after, but they are comfy all day for me. I have no experience with any others except for some of the older Zip fits which I liked. The cork mix Zip fits didn't work well for me at all and didn't last very long either.

I have never had good success with a stock liner. If you do use one at the very least put a good footbed in it.