The softie.

[Harmless]

Im new to the fourms and this is my first post. Didnt know where to put it, so itll go here for now.

Im a racer/carver, but in soft boots. My set it a Burton Slalom 160, K2 Cinch, and Salomon Savage(2007).

My problem is i need more response but dont have the money to invest into a hardboot set up.

What is the stiffest soft boot out there. Burton Driver X? Something with a shell?

Thanks for any help.

[KingCrimson]

My recommendation is to not waste your money with any more softboots.

My view, as someone who has only ever raced with plates, is that if you're successful with softboots in the course, hardboots are a necessity.

What model Burton is your "Slalom" board? Is it a squaretail?

If so, DO NOT buy softboots. Your angles are way too high to make use of the setup without plates.

[piusthedrcarve]

What is the stiffest soft boot out there. Burton Driver X? Something with a shell? Thanks for any help.

Burton Driver X and Salomon Malamute would be the currently offering models. I have worn Marker (DNR) boots (with DNR click-in binding) that has plastic shells wrapped around boots I don't think it is available these days.

You may find used Burton Driver X or Salomon Malamute in 'For Sale' forum at decent price.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Im new to the fourms and this is my first post. Didnt know where to put it, so itll go here for now.

Im a racer/carver, but in soft boots. My set it a Burton Slalom 160, K2 Cinch, and Salomon Savage(2007).

My problem is i need more response but dont have the money to invest into a hardboot set up.

What is the stiffest soft boot out there. Burton Driver X? Something with a shell?

Thanks for any help.

Check the for sale section, buy used , perhaps see if someone in your area can help. You can get started pretty cheap really. 400$ or less to get good boots and bindings. Good luck.

If you ride at Winterpark during the winter? Just show up. CO has one of the best groups of hardbooters around. Check out the "Ride Board", introduce yourself to a couple of the guys there. Can't go wrong. More than likely some one there will take you under their wing and set you up!!

Again, just show up, no attitude (at least for the first day ) and they will take it from there. Even if you are a racer, some of the older guys will likely spank you hard Buy used, look for a local that can help. Good boots and bindings can be had for around 400$ Enjoy!! Welcome to Bomber

[110/220V]

If you are a racer, the stiffest boots you can possibly purchase will not be stiff enough, same with binding. Furthermore (based upon your talent, ability and motivation), you should expect to spend more time/money than you can imagine modifying your gear/interface time and time again to perform closer toward your satisfaction.

It never ends, but your goal is to always improve; nutrition, nutrition, training, technique then equipment--in that order.

[KingCrimson]

If you are a racer, the stiffest boots you can possibly purchase will not be stiff enough, same with binding. Furthermore (based upon your talent, ability and motivation), you should expect to spend more time/money than you can imagine modifying your gear/interface time and time again to perform closer toward your satisfaction.

It never ends, but your goal is to always improve; nutrition, nutrition, training, technique then equipment--in that order.

Strongly disagree with training before focusing on technique..or even calling them separate entities.

And our coaches always drink after training, wouldn't that be nutrition afterwards?

;)

[Harmless]

Well i go to Hidden Valley MO. Im the only racer within 250 miles. Winter Park was just my fav cause of Nastar in March.

Could u guys give me any pointers on what bindings/hardboots are best? Thanks again.

[KingCrimson]

The absolute best gear is debatable and dependent on your personal needs.

There's also the money considerations.

Bomber TD3 Sidewinders are PROBABLY the best bindings you can get for racing. However, they are relatively new and not widespread in top tier racing at all.

Are there any USASA Events near you? You'll learn a lot more racing USASA than Nastar..

[bobdea]

The absolute best gear is debatable and dependent on your personal needs.

There's also the money considerations.

Bomber TD3 Sidewinders are PROBABLY the best bindings you can get for racing. However, they are relatively new and not widespread in top tier racing at all.

Are there any USASA Events near you? You'll learn a lot more racing USASA than Nastar..

boots, I'll tell you what not to buy: any burton because parts are too hard to come by, ski boots because they suck until you do a ton of work to them and even then you have to start with the right boot. after that anything that is not UPZ, head/blax or raichle/deeluxe would be a bad move because it's going to be at least a decade old and is probable one of the poor designs from the early 90s.

[bobdea]

bindings, if you can shoot for f2, bomber td2 or 3, ibex/burton race but avoid burton physics, carrier and other assorted models from burton.

I had some phiokkas that were decent but others have breakage issues with them.

catek, whiles rugged as hell like bombers only the os2 model offers any give at all so I'd avoid those if you're racing.

[Harmless]

is it just me, or do most of the bindings only come with 4 hole and not 3D disk? Or do some companys offer a 3D disk as extra?

I know the TD's have 3D as a choice

[110/220V]

..any 3d binding product is suited for use with Burton board...Burton is only mfr. integrating the 3d as standard. 'Older' is not necessarily indicative of substandard equipment, for your purposes of learning to meet your specific racing goals.

*user from SanDiego, CA: PM me if you truly have a need to undermine my comment or would seek clarity with something I'd written...I would rather convey to you in private, my perspective how proper training will preface opportunity to focus on technique.

We have no idea what you intend to accomplish otherwise...Do as you please (agree or disagree), but take make no piss and take no offense with a response, when you volunteer to steer a thread away from it's original direction.

[KingCrimson]

..any 3d binding product is suited for use with Burton board...Burton is only mfr. integrating the 3d as standard. 'Older' is not necessarily indicative of substandard equipment, for your purposes of learning to meet your specific racing goals.

*user from SanDiego, CA: PM me if you truly have a need to undermine my comment or would seek clarity with something I'd written...I would rather convey to you in private, my perspective how proper training will preface opportunity to focus on technique.

We have no idea what you intend to accomplish otherwise...Do as you please (agree or disagree), but take make no piss and take no offense with a response, when you volunteer to steer a thread away from it's original direction.

I wasn't trying to cause trouble or discredit you. I simply wanted to understand the philosophy behind the way you explained it. I didn't meant to come off as trying anything else.

As for the clarification, please post in on the forums. It's, in my opinion, pertinent to explain the philosophy you posted earlier.

[110/220V]

here is an opinion:

Nutrition most important, but most often neglected given either any major sport or vast majority of athletes within a given sport.

In any field of equal financial and training/resources, technique, talent, and ability/capacity (to excel), the top percentile of Athletes within a field will likely have enjoyed the benefit of superior nutrition to perform consistently and at their highest levels.

Tests show nutrition will impact the Athlete's physiology as much as his psychology. There is a reason top sports teams allocate more money than years past on Nutritionists alone. Heeding this information is another issue altogether!! There just aren't enough hours avail. in 24hr day to out train a poor diet.

Top training will entail qualified coaching relative to an Athlete's racing goals...provided the Athlete and Coach match; the Trainer (or Coach) must have the ability to transmit the appropriate developmental tools specific to the sport and the Athlete in order that the Athlete may be persuaded to his highest level of participation.

Technique that is either 'sound' or 'faulty,' follows as a result of the training. An eye for technique (to match the ability of the Athlete toward his goal) is one tool the Trainer may provide. The Athlete must also have the capacity to maintain the standard of training/self critique of his technique in presence of and absent his Trainer.

Equipment is a by-product of the Athlete's specific financial/logistics reality, but even the Top equipment cannot benefit poor technique. Technique will often beat flash all things equal. We meet many enthusiasts on snow with equipment beyond either ability level or poor snow-skiing (gliding-cutting) technique, and often a Racer who could have out-performed his result, had he the proper equipment to match his level training. If a new Kessler (with BOL Greenback plate) and were avail. free to every Racer carte blanche, I would guess the results would ultimately reflect the Nutrition, Training, Technique of the given field that day.

This is only one opinion that might not be congruent with your own knowledge, believe what you will...do not take my word for your rules. Furthermore, this was not the purpose of this thread, apology to community in case anyone feels their time was not appropriately served here.

[KingCrimson]

I suppose I misunderstood your definition of training. In the sense you explained, I agree.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I still feel it is pertinent to this thread, as technique vs. equipment is ALWAYS an important discussion in changing between softies and hardboots.

As lots of racers personally experience, many a hardbooter has been put to shame in the gates by a softbooter that has spent more time learning about line, timing, and body mechanics.

[Arje_Vandemeer]

I believe your first question was what softboots/bindings are stiff enough for carve? I enjoy carving in both my UPZs and and my softies.

There are some cheap alternatives that will get you carving better first without spending LOTS on equipment...there is time for that later.

1) Think about getting a three strap binding USED. They are almost impossible to find new...I don't think anybody makes them anymore. But you CAN find them used. If I remember right, one popular 3 strapper was Burton Torque. You can sometimes find these used very cheaply on the net. Like as low as $20. I've ridden them years ago.

2) Think about finding a fiberglass tongue insert. These will really help stiffness for carve. I one time used the tongue of an old pair of Langes. Old ski boots are easy to find for almost zero. Cut the tongue off of a racing ski boot.

3) I looked for pix of the Burton Slalom 158. Could not find ANY pix. But I see it is a 210 mm wide board. That should be wide enough for you to carve soft. Depending on your feet size, I don't think you will be able to get anywhere near the normal 55* angles with your savages, but that board is wide enough for MAYBE 35* angles, but again, it depends on your boot size.

4) I don't know anything about Burton Savage, but from pix, it doesn't look too stiff. Someone else suggested Burton Driver or Malamute. Those ARE two good choices. I just purchased a pair of Burton Shaun Whites that I haven't ridden yet. These will be fairly stiff but not nearly as stiff as Burton Driver. Many boardercross people like the Driver. I don't think Burton Drivers are made any more. Anybody know? But they are old enough that you should be able to get a pair used fairly cheaply. Maybe as low as $50 used? The more I read about them, I might get a pair too!!

There is no reason why you need to go right out and purchase hardboots, and they DON'T need to be your only boot for carving when you DO make the step to hardboots and plates. You can have fun on both. The indoor runs are quite short at the snowdomes (320 metres)!, so I often just ride in soft. But when we go to Germany/Austria and Poland, I like carving in both, because both carve differently...just more stuff to take on train, though! Arrgghhh.

Most important is to enjoy yourself on the snow. Anyway, good luck!

[boarderboy]

Many boardercross people like the Driver. I don't think Burton Drivers are made any more. Anybody know? But they are old enough that you should be able to get a pair used fairly cheaply. Maybe as low as $50 used? The more I read about them, I might get a pair too!!

There is no reason why you need to go right out and purchase hardboots, and they DON'T need to be your only boot for carving when you DO make the step to hardboots and plates.

Most important is to enjoy yourself on the snow. Anyway, good luck!

Burton Driver-X has been in the line at least through 09/10 model year. I strongly suspect it still is. If not, there'll surely be a new-name replacement that gives near-hardboot stiffness. They've shown there's an ongoing market for this.

On the Burton U.S. WebSite, three models of the Driver are 30% off right now, including the GMP, their "eco-friendly" version. (Approx. $250 U.S.)

Don't know if they ship overseas.

Ride on!!

BB

[tex1230]

1) Think about getting a three strap binding USED. They are almost impossible to find new...I don't think anybody makes them anymore. But you CAN find them used. If I remember right, one popular 3 strapper was Burton Torque. You can sometimes find these used very cheaply on the net. Like as low as $20. I've ridden them years ago.

Don't subject yourself to potential injury by taking this advice. The burton 3-straps have been out of production for a decade or more. Plastic degrades over time. If you're really out racing and pushing your equipment to its limits, you would just be lining yourself up for a broken binding and possibly worse. There have been some hybrid/frankenstein 3-straps made which is probably ok if you want to go that way, but in my experience, 3-straps generally suck for racing.

[bobdea]

but in my experience, 3-straps generally suck for racing.

lol, I'll expand on that.... three straps suck for SNOWBOARDING!

avoid 3 straps like you'd avoid a 1989 burton air.......

[Harmless]

Wow. I love all the help.

But someone was talking about a 55 binding angle. Lol. I have to ride 65+ if 70*. My feet are size 11, so softies make it even worse.

I also have a Ride 150cm ish board(mid wide) i used for the first times i started into racing. But since i started racing, i wanted to slowly start getting a full hardboot setup.

[Dr D]

catek free rides and solomon malamutes will transition you nicely into a hardboot setup later. watch the boards here for used items and ebay as well. you may be able to get into hardboots that way as well.

Ignore the naysayers if you are still committed to softies you want malamutes. They break down after awhile and get softer so plan on replacing every two years. hardboots last much longer usually

[Arclite]

Something I haven't seen anybody say yet:

I know you want a softboot set up, or that was your intention, because hardboot set ups are too expensive, right?

It may seem expensive right now, but you would be purchasing quality that you will most likely never have to buy again.

With a new (or even used) set of UPZ, Head, or Deeluxe/Raichle boots, and a new (or even used) set of Trench Digger, F2, or Catek bindings (or really anything with a metal frame) most likely, you will never have to buy anything else again.

Maybe a second board kit, if you get another board.

(unless of course you're a gear whore, like a few known members on BOL) :o

My 2-cents.

[bobdea]

Something I haven't seen anybody say yet:

I know you want a softboot set up, or that was your intention, because hardboot set ups are too expensive, right?

It may seem expensive right now, but you would be purchasing quality that you will most likely never have to buy again.

With a new (or even used) set of UPZ, Head, or Deeluxe/Raichle boots, and a new (or even used) set of Trench Digger, F2, or Catek bindings (or really anything with a metal frame) most likely, you will never have to buy anything else again.

Maybe a second board kit, if you get another board.

(unless of course you're a gear whore, like a few known members on BOL) :o

My 2-cents.

yeah, that's a good point. I've never had a strap binding last as long as any of my decent plates. hardboots tend to last me about 5x as many days on hill assuming I either remold or replace the liner.

[Corey]

In my experience the initial purchase of hardboots is not the end of the spending. You then have to mold the liners. If you're lucky, that's it. If you have a foot that's shaped differently than the manufacturer thinks, then you have to modify the shell to fit your foot. Nothing is crazy expensive, but I think I've spent another $300 over multiple years on footbeds, molding, and shell punching.

Go a little too small on hardboots, it's much easier to punch out the toes or forefoot 1/8" than to add 1/8" padding everywhere else to remove a sloppy fit. It took me a couple boots to figure this out.

Of course this is a hardboot site so you're going to get answers biased towards hardboots. I gave up on softboots 6+ years ago given my riding style, but apparently they're quite good now.

[Arje_Vandemeer]

I've got a friend who actually modified a pair of Rollerblade boots to work as hardboots. When he was done with all the modifications, he found they actually worked quite well for him.

If I remember correctly, he ended up putting a toe piece and a heel piece on the boot so that he could accept the bindings, because of course they are totally toe-less and heel-less normally.. I can't remember what bindings he used...maybe Cateks?? I think he modified the bottom of the boot, as well, but cannot say for certain. I know he added the toe/heel pieces from the inside (meaning the screws were on the inside, not the blocks) and then sealed the screw holes and put the linings back in. I know he had to re-tighten the scews quite often.

Why did he do all this?? Simple reason is because he is absolutely CRAZY. But also because he just wanted to see if it can work. It turned out they worked well for him, as he used them for maybe 4 years! He said they were quite comfortable for boarding.

I've been wanting to do the same with my Rollerblade boots...just to emulate his inventive madness! Thinking now as I'm writing this, I would instead make a boot-bottom that would include the toe and heel pieces, so that the whole thing would be one piece and fastened onto the bottom of the boot. I think it would be MUCH firmer that way than his original set-up. I'm think that white cutting board material would work well for this "Rollerblade" binding adapter" bottom. Ha ha..the more I write this, the more enthused I get about doing it. Just for hecks. I will include pix if I actually do it! I figure this "bottom piece" will only add 8 mm to bottom.