wenne Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 New Plate : http://www.snowboardplate.com/SnowboardPlate/Welcome.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted November 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 New Plate : http://www.snowboardplate.com/SnowboardPlate/Welcome.html Called "Snowboard Plate" ??? 490.00 EUR = 687.226 USD Looks very nice, great photography too!! You have to wonder how many plate manufacturers can our small sport support? Time to release Fin? Pre-orders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gossamer Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Fin you never did answer on why the sliding pivots work better in the front, I'm very curious. Please respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 New Plate : http://www.snowboardplate.com/SnowboardPlate/Welcome.html Doesn't make for many stance options... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacopodotti Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Are they 4x4 compatible? Which is the weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 The placement of the pivots of a plate system do change how the entire system feels dramatically. Some of the conclusions from last year where as you went wider with the pivots the board became more stable and powerful. We are limited in our range of pivot placements by the UPM pattern. However, the Anton Glider ski design got me thinking about both the free flex benefits of a plate AND the potential ability of a plate to more evenly spread the downforce from the rider along the edge of the snowboard. Consider 3 theoretical scenarios with a plate equipped and cambered snowboard. a) plate pivot(s) apply the rider's weight at a single point in the centre of the effective edge. b) plate pivots apply the rider's weight to either end of the effective edge. c) plate pivots apply the rider's weight at points 1/4 & 3/4 along the effective edge i.e. if EE = 160cm, then at EE 40 & 120cm points. When the board is tilted onto its' edge - a) the downforce is concentrated in the middle of the board, and the board's imperfect torsional rigidity results in a gradually decreasing amount of downforce being applied towards each end of the effective edge. b) the downforce is applied where the board is already in contact with the snow at either end and minimal/no downforce is applied in the middle to decamber the board. c) downforce is applied that both decambers the board and applies downforce effectively at tip and tail, resulting in a more even distribution of downforce along the edge. Result: better edge hold, the board feels more stable and powerful. This is my hypothesis as to why Fin observed what he did. It just may be that we may need to go wider than UPM to get optimal pivot placement, and that the optimal pivot placement distance may be board stiffness, torsional rigidity, & effective edge specific. SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Pukas Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 We are limited in our range of pivot placements by the UPM pattern. However, the Anton Glider ski design got me thinking about both the free flex benefits of a plate AND the potential ability of a plate to more evenly spread the downforce from the rider along the edge of the snowboard. Consider 3 theoretical scenarios with a plate equipped and cambered snowboard. a) plate pivot(s) apply the rider's weight at a single point in the centre of the effective edge. b) plate pivots apply the rider's weight to either end of the effective edge. c) plate pivots apply the rider's weight at points 1/4 & 3/4 along the effective edge i.e. if EE = 160cm, then at EE 40 & 120cm points. When the board is tilted onto its' edge - a) the downforce is concentrated in the middle of the board, and the board's imperfect torsional rigidity results in a gradually decreasing amount of downforce being applied towards each end of the effective edge. b) the downforce is applied where the board is already in contact with the snow at either end and minimal/no downforce is applied in the middle to decamber the board. c) downforce is applied that both decambers the board and applies downforce effectively at tip and tail, resulting in a more even distribution of downforce along the edge. Result: better edge hold, the board feels more stable and powerful. This is my hypothesis as to why Fin observed what he did. It just may be that we may need to go wider than UPM to get optimal pivot placement, and that the optimal pivot placement distance may be board stiffness, torsional rigidity, & effective edge specific. SunSurfer erm, while all this may be good and all (and honestly I can't really follow what your on about here), what Fin is refering to is the interface between rider and plate, regardless of what the board is doing underneath. What he's refering to is really quite simple: If the pivot points are underneath the bindings, then it's easy to flex the plate due to a teter-toter effect. This teter-totering makes you feel unbalanced, not strong and tires you very quickly. To eliminate this effect, the plate needs to be very, very stiff. When the pivot points are moved outwards of the bindings, you don't have the same leverage to flex the plate, so the plate stays more rigid naturally, and you stay more stable and get greater benefit of the plate (as Sean described in his stick-leg vid). The UPM pattern, among other things, offers a wider spread of the pivot hardware. Other benfits of a wider pivot spread are yet to be determined, and you are probably onto to something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 imagine you're going to be riding a mountain bike (forwards) down a rocky trail. you're allowed suspension. but only on one end. you can have either front suspension, or rear suspension. which do you want? -- the (sine) attack is coming from the front of the board, so it's sensible to have it be the most articulated part of the interface. as in the MTB comparison above, the rider is located primarily behind the front articulated mount, and the rear pivoting mount. (which suggests to me we want our front binding behind the sliding pivot, and our rear foot closer to the pivoting .. pivot.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Snowman, what a tease :( that is just plain wrong Mark! We need proof . Them guys over @ Bomber certainly know how to build suspense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0hn Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Maybe Fin is afraid of divulging his proprietary processes. Or that we'll all find out these things are really just made of old rubber tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 What he's refering to is really quite simple: If the pivot points are underneath the bindings, then it's easy to flex the plate due to a teter-toter effect. This teter-totering makes you feel unbalanced, not strong and tires you very quickly. To eliminate this effect, the plate needs to be very, very stiff. When the pivot points are moved outwards of the bindings, you don't have the same leverage to flex the plate, so the plate stays more rigid naturally, and you stay more stable and get greater benefit of the plate Are you sure that's correct? I'd have to draw some diagrams, but I'm not sure it is. Edit - nevermind. Back foot example... maybe with the axle under your arch you can push down with your toes and pull up with your heel, and when the axle is under your heel you can only push down with your toes and that isn't as effective at bending the plate due to boot flex or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 feels pretty good on the carpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 feels pretty good on the carpet. Looks mean. Is that the board with the awesome base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Looks mean. Is that the board with the awesome base?yes it is. and with the plate softening the flex from "**** me!" to "yee-hah!", i'll be showing off those colours a lot more. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow 15 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 yes it is. and with the plate softening the flex from "**** me!" to "yee-hah!", i'll be showing off those colours a lot more. ;) That board is looking amazing, you still up for some runs down the cas and m1 this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 That board is looking amazing, you still up for some runs down the cas and m1 this season?absofrigginlutely, but 'gorm have bought a winch kit for one of the beasts.they'll be grooming the lady, and probably laogh mor again if we get another massive dump ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow 15 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 absofrigginlutely, but 'gorm have bought a winch kit for one of the beasts.they'll be grooming the lady, and probably laogh mor again if we get another massive dump ... That is good news, a well groomed lady. Mind you a trip to Aonach Mor would probably the best bet for that monster. Have you ridden the donek indoors yet, if so how many turns did you manage? half a turn:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Got to see the birthing of new Bomber Plate fresh from the press at the shop yesterday. It looks just as beautiful in it's raw from as it does when it's all trimmed out and drilled. The time and effort that has gone into this project is amazing! I have to give props to Fin, Sean and Luke for all of their efforts on bringing this project to fruition, it has been a hugh expenditure of money, talent, dedication and experience that has allowed this collaborative effort happen. It is going to be a interesting year watching all of these manufacturers with current plate offerings duke it out. I am confident that the cream will rise to the top. I would post up some pics but once again sworn to secerecy and frisked for cameras before entering the shop.Think Snow! More teasing. This is only flat text I can't buy. We/I want to know prices and specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 imagine you're going to be riding a mountain bike (forwards) down a rocky trail.you're allowed suspension. but only on one end. you can have either front suspension, or rear suspension. which do you want? -- the (sine) attack is coming from the front of the board, so it's sensible to have it be the most articulated part of the interface. as in the MTB comparison above, the rider is located primarily behind the front articulated mount, and the rear pivoting mount. (which suggests to me we want our front binding behind the sliding pivot, and our rear foot closer to the pivoting .. pivot.) Faulty pre-supposition: The plate pivots are not a shock absorbing suspension system. The plate's flex will produce a degree of shock absorption but STIFF plates are thought at present to produce the best performance. The board also absorbs and releases the forces applied to it. The pivots allow the board to move independently of the plate. The motion of the snowboard is essentially identical whether the "(sine) attack" (upwards/ downwards deflection and release) is applied at the front or rear of the board, or whether the hinge/slide unit is front or back. I've tried it on a test bed setup and seen this with my own eyes. Only a decellerative force, applied from the nose, along the length of the board, will produce a difference in motion when the hinge/slide is at front rather than at the rear. Bending of the board will occur between the nose and the hinge only pivot. So, with the hinge/slide at the front clearly more of the board is available to soak up the decellerative force. SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Faulty pre-supposition: The plate pivots are not a shock absorbing suspension system.it isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, i'll agree.So, with the hinge/slide at the front clearly more of the board is available to soak up the decellerative force.SunSurfer which neatly ties in with my front-suspension analogy? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 feels pretty good on the carpet. 'Kinel, modern board technology in the UK. Whatever next. I ordered a Kessler SL but it's not arrived yet and sod's law says I'll have to spend my time riding heli-powder all season. But if I get to the piste, then I have the right board for that. Not sure I like the idea of a groomed lady. I only rode there once but ungroomed was pretty good (163 Nitro Scorpion SL board in about 1994). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow 15 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Wow Phil you have been trying for a new board for ages and low and behold you go full on and get a race machine. You will not be disappointed, you will probably want a 185 next. Don't know why you are perturbed by a groomed lady the last time I saw you on the web, you were all over a frozen backside!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 More here: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=31614 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted November 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Looks good BlueB. Questions: Is the plastic tough enought to thread and then hold like metal? Why not run a single axle? Measuring from top of board to top of plate, how tall is it? Simple and clean build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Thanks Bryan. The treads on the half axles do not bear any pulling loads, they just stop the axle from turning. Plastic wil be ideal for that. If the question was about the treads in the sliders, there I have 20mm of tread. Should be ample... It could be a single axle if I ever go CNC, or propper machine shop. I do not have enough travel on my press-drill to do bore for the single axle in one go, so 2 half-axles were a simple solution. 31mm tall, from top of the board to top of the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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