carving board in trees....?

[canuckcarver]

ive just recently returned from Big White... had a blast even though couldnt see the chair in front of me most of the time. i was riding my 178 4wd prior mostly due to poor visibility, and i tried going in the trees ... what a disaster that was! i got stuck and had to walk out, and when i did i went waist deep in powder. i was wondering what the general idea was towards riding in the trees? i brought a 163 but its only 19 cm wide and didnt think i would be able get through it.

is it easier to use a softboot set up on a short board?/skiis? ..or do i need to expand my quiver? im refering to riding in fairly tight trees.... not the wide open trees approaching the tree line

[BlueB]

I hear your pain! I still hate the trees, I'm too chickenish and stiffen up a lot, which impedes manouvrabillity. On pow day, when the runs are tosted after an hour or 2 max, everyone heads for the trees to find the stashes. I head to the steeps to ride yummy soft bumps!

I had pretty similar experiences with 4WD in the trees. The best board I tried for that business (and it makes me look half decent too) is Dynastar/Osin 3800. You can ride it hard or soft boots and it would still carve well when you get back to groomed. Plenty of float and nimble. A bit wide for my small feet in h/boots. Cheap to buy, even new.

[John H]

The most fun I've had on a board for tight trees is a Burton Fish. Floats well for it's length and really manouverable. I've always used it with soft boots but some people ride them with plates.

[Mike T]

I've done it and done decently well at it on an Axxess and a Coiler AM but I have the most fun in tight trees with softies and my Steepwater Plow or OSin 4807 178. It just feels better.

[Jonny]

Tough on a narrow stick. I keep a Burton Alp for those days. I think the big trick is to keep it mostly downhill as much as possible, stand a little straighter with less edge in the turns, really loose lower body, and use the occasional clearing to check your speed and line

[tahoetrencher]

with a sl board; my fave a team fp(164ish) 17 cm waist that is too soft now for carving.

And before this starts the usual flaming here's a disclosure:

It takes a while to figure how to mach bottomless on a sl deck that isn't visible under your feet so being a 30 yr local with access to every storm helps a bit, but really it's not that tough.

On the other hand you will be rewarded with godlike agility in tight trees with the ability to mach schnell and porpoise at will. Try not to fall but getting going again is like a waterstart on a sailboard; takes a little practice.

Don't dive into anything less than very steep and you will prevail.

This doesn't replace the 198 UT swallow but we're going to have so much powder that it will help switch it up to alleviate the boredom of floating pow 5days in a row.

[Guest]

with a sl board; my fave a team fp(164ish) 17 cm waist that is too soft now for carving.

And before this starts the usual flaming here's a disclosure:

It takes a while to figure how to mach bottomless on a sl deck that isn't visible under your feet so being a 30 yr local with access to every storm helps a bit, but really it's not that tough.

On the other hand you will be rewarded with godlike agility in tight trees with the ability to mach schnell and porpoise at will. Try not to fall but getting going again is like a waterstart on a sailboard; takes a little practice.

Don't dive into anything less than very steep and you will prevail.

This doesn't replace the 198 UT swallow but we're going to have so much powder that it will help switch it up to alleviate the boredom of floating pow 5days in a row.

A slalom board? In the trees?

I would tend to disagree with that. There are so many better tools. That is perhaps the worst possible board to take into trees, with perhaps the exception of a 210 super g board.

Albeit to each their own. I just wouldn't recommend that for anyone.

[b0ardski]

178 is a lot of board for truly tight trees. If the snows deep (foot+) a wider board stays afloat better making emergency turns easier.

The boards I've used in tight trees;

157 asym alp did well in uber tight at Blacktail, I'm talkin branch ducking bushwhacking

165 nidecker escape, great all around similar width to the alp but a bit stiff & not enough float when it gets deep.

159 & 165 K2 eldo, great float, super nimble and carved well, if a bit wide. highly recommended.

169 3800, as good or better than the eldo, sweetspot towards the tail but the stance options were too wide for me.

169 atomic radon split tail I liked better than the 3800 but traded it for a

168 madd bx which was killer everywhere but not as malleable/nimble in tight trees

173 Identity glass AM, starting to get a bit long but it's amazingly nimble in deep and carves almost as good as the madd

I'm 6' #185 and wouldn't want any longer than the 173 ID for trees, the 178 oxygen summit was too much

[Buell]

ive just recently returned from Big White... had a blast even though couldnt see the chair in front of me most of the time. i was riding my 178 4wd prior mostly due to poor visibility, and i tried going in the trees ... what a disaster that was! i got stuck and had to walk out, and when i did i went waist deep in powder. i was wondering what the general idea was towards riding in the trees? i brought a 163 but its only 19 cm wide and didnt think i would be able get through it.

is it easier to use a softboot set up on a short board?/skiis? ..or do i need to expand my quiver? im refering to riding in fairly tight trees.... not the wide open trees approaching the tree line

A carve board is designed to use its edges to turn on firm snow. It does not need to float. It is stiff and is really hard to bend properly in powder. The 4WD is not a powder board, though it certainly fits some rider's styles well.

A good powder board is designed to use its base to turn in soft snow. It is softer flexing and wider. It is designed to make turns on top of snow that if you slow too much, you will sink. Ideally, it will keep you on top at much lower speeds than non powder boards.

Hardboots or softboots (I prefer soft for inbounds powder), using a board designed to ride powder will help you tremendously.

The heavy tapered shapes work really well in tight trees. The Burton Fish is one of the tightest turners.

I find that the rockered shapes (even with no taper) also work really well in tight trees. They do make a different type of turn than the super tapered boards but are very nimble.

Shorter is better for quick turning. Both tapered and rockered (and rockered with taper) boards can be ridden pretty short and still provide good float.

The draw back is the tightest turning tree riding boards are not so fun in open powder when you want to make big high speed turns. Getting a mid sized powder board and learning to turn it in tight trees will give you the option to still make those high speed open powder turns. Probably on the same run as the tight tree turns.

Man, I obviously need some POWDER!

[crucible]

The carving board for me that does sterling service in powder and trees is a Prior AWD. I bought a 167 AWD last year and am having a blast with it in the trees.

I personally love tree riding, probably because I think that it provides me with compatible training for racing gates on a carving board. I also love the quicknesss and agility needed to rip tree lines well.

[Erik J]

When I'm in the trees in my hardboots, I stay low and centered with my knees bent. I keep my upper body quiet - no wild motions. I press my rear leg into the snow to control speed and direction. The front leg moves much less for me and stays in a stable position, ready to absorb or extend a little. Powder and tree riding movements are much more subtle for me but can get quickly out of hand if the speed builds too much. It's easy to come around a tree too fast and find a branch at neck level. I like to find a sense of flow by not having to speed up and slow down.

Most of tree riding happens in between my ears. I have found a still and focused brain to get me through the trees better than my equipment choices. See only the spaces between the trees. Be aware of trunks and branches but don't focus on them.

[philw]

I just arrived in Big White.

I think some people like big boards, others ride the trees.

I have a 163 SL board for piste and resort powder. It works ok in the sort of "resort powder" we have had in BC recently, because if you've only 40cms or so fresh then you're mostly riding the base anyway. In back-country powder an SL board is a bad idea.

I ride tight trees as much as possible, and I use a powder board for that. The Fish is pretty much ideal as it's short, nimble, and the short tail means you can easily control your speed through the turn. I use hard boots and bindings in powder as although it's a different deal, I need the control and comfort, and of course it saves me having to switch stance/ style.

As someone said there's a bit of a trade around board size which is speed versus manoeuvrability in the trees. If I'm in a group I usually start last and finish first, so I'm not too bothered about more top speed, hence I ride shorter boards these days. If I rode places with fewer trees the equation may work out differently.

[tahoetrencher]

So I have 14 powder boards.

Every year this comes up and everyone says

"Hey man, you got to eat chili with a spoon, A fork is the worst possible choice."

Every tourist knows that the best method of travel below the rim of the Grand Canyon is a mule, all I'm saying is that if you have a jet and know how to fly then leave the wings folded back, be super sensitive on the controls and you can navigate the bends below the rim at about the speed of sound.

Best tool for the job? It is if you fly for a living.

Of course the cubicle carvers prefer the ass.

How many of you naysayers can actually plane a sl board in the pow?

How many of you have tried?

[tahoetrencher]

And, of course you are right.

It just kills me the overhype about boards(equipment) on the forum.

They're just an interface with the snow.

Tire choice is important in your drag analogy; it's not the only or most important one.

That's all.

There is only one "tool for the job" that makes a huge difference in the pow and that tool is between your ears.

For me a powder board is just a race deck that's taken too many hits to be a goto pistepounder and has been demoted from rockboard status because of it.

[carvedog]

There is only one "tool for the job" that makes a huge difference in the pow and that tool is between your ears.

For me a powder board is just a race deck that's taken too many hits to be a goto pistepounder and has been demoted from rockboard status because of it.

Funny you mentioned that last bit. Until I broke it down completely, one of the old tire track Factory Primes in a 19 or ?20 cm waist and 173 length was awesome in the bumps, trees and powder.

I will add one thing about square tails is that there is very little finishing the turn in the conventional sense of coming across the fall line. I tend to just push the tail down in the snow ( and or raise the nose ) to increase drag and slow down with having to lose plane completely. I call it skagging it out.

I also don't think about turning or tipping the board like hardly at all. Slight tipping and pushing off the entire length of the board when changing direction. Completely different technique than I use anywhere else.

Don't know if this makes sense - I am on the couch on hydrocodone. so just color me envious of anyone that can go out and apply any techniques today.

[tahoetrencher]

"I will add one thing about square tails is that there is very little finishing the turn in the conventional sense of coming across the fall line. I tend to just push the tail down in the snow ( and or raise the nose ) to increase drag and slow down with having to lose plane completely. I call it skagging it out."

I call it porpoising.

I can pow my sl board all day and not get fatigued. No leg burn at all. Don't bother setting bindings back on a small board, you don't need it.

On my UT 198 I'm toast after about 40,000 feet but that's aggro riding not the centered effortless cruise as on a sl.

[canuckcarver]

thanks for the advice everyone, i think ill keep my eyes open for a fish.... possibly an osin .. theres just not enough snow around here to buy brand new coiler i get out west once maybe twice a year, so id like to have a proper board for the job. the group i was with said there were pockets in the trees that were never touched, and plenty deep..... man i need to move out west., theres 70 cm of man made snow here, and visible grass on my lawn :(.

[canuckcarver]

one thing i did learn from my brief experience in some trees is dont use intec ! what a pain that was to get back into my bindings. ill stick with std bails . live and learn!

[tahoetrencher]

"SL boards haven't been a part of my quiver... I am positive that you won't be able to hang." -Snowman

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[Erik J]

one thing i did learn from my brief experience in some trees is dont use intec ! what a pain that was to get back into my bindings. ill stick with std bails . live and learn!

I actually preferred intecs for the woods and pow. For those long flat sections between areas, just step out, kick a few and step in. If I was forced to stop in deep pow and have to take out a foot, I found it way easier to just step back in and stay balanced while maintaiing forward momentum.

[tripine]

Fat boards are definitely easier in pow. However, if you ride the board flat and remember you're not carving , nearly any board works well. I learned on a 167 prime, and I love my Coiler FC 178s in tight trees and pow. Think about learning to ski or ride in pow. I still have nightmares about those days. 2 ft of freshies in Targhee and my skiing friends and wife having way too much fun at my pathetic riding and impressive crashes. Trying to turn too soon and riding my edges... I definitely got the last laugh.... but it wasn't that day!! Speed is your friend...

[Rob Stevens]

Tahoe:

I've never known anyone who can ride centred on an SL board in deep snow. That's a real talent. So much so that I wonder if it's true.

These boards have such short, narrow noses that I felt like if I wanted to press the front foot, I was going OTB. In trees, this is hanging yourself out there.

Freeride or powder specific boards allow front foot weighting that rivals what you can do on hard snow.

When you have a board that lets you stand anywhere you want to on it, rather than having to adjust your tech to make up for the boards shortcomings, then you're on to something.

I do have a few Fish, but they're for bindingless riding. If I wanted a board that could kill pow and handle hard snow with bindings, I'd pick up a Salomon Sick Stik. That's a really nice ride. I do generally want to sit on a plane, however, so I still go back to my 174 Salomon Fastback with ride induced rocker for my heli days, when there's too much traversing tracked trail for the NoBoard.

**EDIT** Looking at the OP, in tight trees, perhaps planing is not what you want to do. Get a Fish, Sick Stik or something else big nosed and taper tailed. The Fish are so cheap / ubiquitous on EBay that you have no excuse to not have one. The bindings can be flexy, so you can pretty much ride anything on that score, but do get well-padded, comfortable boots (soft for both).

[Buell]

Freeride or powder specific boards allow front foot weighting that rivals what you can do on hard snow.

This is very well said. I personally would stick with powder specific boards though. The right powder board will rail turns riding centered and driving forward. Most boards will only work with most of your weight on the back leg and no pressure driving forward. High speeds can change this equation some, but that is not always an option.

Get a Fish, Sick Stik or something else big nosed and taper tailed.

Or one of the new rockered shapes. They turn super tight and float incredibly well compared to their cambered versions.

The Fish are so cheap / ubiquitous on EBay that you have no excuse to not have one.

Absolutely agree. If you have no other powder board and it is a low priority, at least pick up a Fish for cheap. Rebecca and I use them as our early season powder boards.

[Buell]

since the Fish entered my life, I havent hit any trees

That pretty much says it all!!

[eajracing]

I love trees. Or, perhaps better said, the gaps between them. When you're flowing through trees its that same zen-feeling ripping perfect laid-out GS carves on snow. You stop thinking, just go and it all works itself out somehow.

Whenever I've got a day I know I will be in the trees a lot (think Revy) I only ride soft boots. 176 Prior MFR, back foot waaaaay back and hustle it. I kept worrying the board was too long, but once you've got a flow it's fine. If you're in trouble it gets to be a problem. The times I have ridden hard boots in trees, it was a shorter, wider older burton FP and it got up and down okay in deep but as they get tracked out I found the set up too stiff for all the little whoops that develop.

+1 on the fish (dyin to try a nofish...). +1 on the reverse camber - i ride with two guys that rip trees & deep on them.