Size matters....

[lonbordin]

I’m a big guy (6’4” 245lbs. sans apparel or 1.93m 111kg for the metrically inclined and my boot size is 30) looking for some advice about my foray into the hard boot side of snowboarding.

I’ve boarded since 1987 and I surf and skate as well. My son, a ten year old skier, had been pestering me to do the NASTAR races with him. I did and I really enjoy it…

So my current boards are a Rad-Air Tanker 167 and a Lib Tech Grocer 180. I currently use O’Sin Boots and O’Sin step in bindings. Yeah, they are old but I HATE sitting on my butt to strap in.

I’ve done a LOT of reading about setups but most of it really doesn’t pertain to people of my size or situation.

What situation? I live in Southern Indiana and predominantly board on a really small hill (Paoli Peaks) that has less than perfect conditions the majority of the time.

I need a setup that will allow me to step-in, board in icy & rutty conditions and allow for racing that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg.

There is no demo of Alpine snowboard equipment anywhere nearby nor are there any shops. I’ve only seen one person hardbooting one time and I was not able to talk to him.

So I will be buying my equipment online, preferably used and I’m looking for some recommendations.

As a side note are there others my size lurking here?

:lol:

Thanks! :)

[Phil]

There are quite a few guys that are our size (and bigger) here. I am 6'6" and 240 lbs. The great thing is that when people say something is stiff, it will not be stiff for you - so don't be afraid of stiff.

Get some beefy bindings. I have broken my share of bindings and it is not worth doing any more. I like TD step ins and they are a little stiffer than standards laterally. They are not cheap, though.

For a small hill, I find nothing better than a slalom board that can make a small hill feel bigger. My SL board is a Donek 162. I absolutely loved my F2 SL 166 that I had before the Donek, but they don't make the 166 anymore - just the 163. I loved the 163 as well, just liked the 166 better. Any decently stiff SL board would work well. Again, I use the word "stiff" lightly because there is no SL board that will really feel stiff to you.

Good luck!

[Scuff]

6'5" - 234 lbs.

There is a 166 F2 in the classifieds right now.

I ride this board in an older model, and like it a lot.

It's nice and stable and makes quick turns - which is always helpful when riding in the mid-west. :)

[Puddy Tat]

6'2" 215 lbs and riding agressively

I'm riding UPZ RTR boots with the black tongue. Even though they are known for being stiff because of my weight and aggresiveness I can still flex the hell out of them. I should try the grey tongue this winter.

Go with step-ins. They make those little hills seem bigger. I can skate towards the top of the run and clip-in without stopping. At the bottom I can clip-out as I glide into the lift line. I've got kids so I don't get out to the mountains as much as I used to. These days I'm riding little local hills in Edmonton with 200-300 ft of vertical drop.

I'm personally riding TD3s and Fintecs and I love them. But my review of those is skewed as the only other binding I've ridden is a '94 O2 (Frische).

[bobdea]

yeah, I'm in the 250 zone too

you could buy a used custom built for a big dude if you're patient.

that would be ideal, but could take a few months of watching the classified like a hawk.

[Gtanner]

Got a set of long-plate catek OS1's (standard though). PM if interested.

[Jack M]

Check out the info in the links below to help get started with the technique. Be sure to browse our classifieds.

Step NUMBER ONE before setting foot on any alpine gear is to make sure you know how to <i>carve</i> on your current gear. Yes, it is possible, and if you figure it out first it will make the transition to hardboots much easier. See if you can do The Norm on your softboot gear, to the point where you can change edges before the board points downhill. That is, can you carve the downhill edge?

Good luck and welcome!

[Phil]

6'5" - 234 lbs.

There is a 166 F2 in the classifieds right now.

I ride this board in an older model, and like it a lot.

It's nice and stable and makes quick turns - which is always helpful when riding in the mid-west. :)

Is that the SL? I've never seen that one before. I know that in the past they have had the Speedster, Sp. GTS, Sp. SL, and Sp. RS. As a big guy, I would only get the race boards (SL and RS - in fact, I do ride an RS), but that is just me.

you could buy a used custom built for a big dude if you're patient... but could take a few months of watching the classified like a hawk.

That's where my Donek SL is from. $200 - almost new! It was the perfect board for the perfect price.

Waiting and watching will also give you a better idea of what is a good deal and what is not (hint, hint).

[Scuff]

Is that the SL? I've never seen that one before.

Since it has "Speedster" in the listing, and shape looks correct - I assumed it was an SL. I have not seen that topsheet pattern before either, so you might confirm with seller.

In general, my UPZ boots have had a much stiffer flex and a narrower width footbed than my Deeluxe.

[lonbordin]

Thanks for all the responses!

@Phil- It sure would be nice if the industry developed a measurable stiffness index so it was less how it feels and more how it actually moves. I too have broken more than a few bindings and it always sucks, big time!

@Scuff- I’ve been looking at those classifieds every day, thanks.

@Puddy Tat- I so agree about the step-ins… I wouldn’t be able to keep up with my ten year old without step-ins!

@bobdea- I’m willing to wait (I’m in Indiana so no early snowmaking here), thanks.

@Gtanner- Thanks. Only step-in bindings for me, please…

@Jack Michaud- I can carve and I think I’ve read everything on this site including all the classifieds. Thanks for the welcome note.

@Phil- Watching & waiting

@Scuff- Good to know as I have a wide foot!

<o>

</o> Since I brought it up I’m curious who is the biggest hardbooter around?! :D

[carvedog]

I might have the biggest a$$ around. I am right at 6' 255lbs. Hopefully less soon.

[Phil]

<o></o>Since I brought it up I’m curious who is the biggest hardbooter around?! :D

There are at least two here that are 6'7" if I remember correctly. I don't know if there are any bigger than that.

My friends could tell you that I probably qualify as the biggest dork that rides hardboots. ;):D

[lonbordin]

Hooray...

Boots (check-see below) :D

Bindings (SI)

and

Board (stiff)

left to go!

I want to thank all of the BOL group for all of your help, thanks!

Now that that's over

On with the show.

[Fastskiguy]

I get the most riding on a 300ft hill in southern WI, can't tell you how much I love the step-in bindings. TD3's just work really well. Pricy but I'd say "cry once, enjoy good performance forever" on this one. Plus you don't want to be busting up lesser bindings and wreck your body.

[lonbordin]

@Fastskiguy- I hear ya'!

If I didn't have step-ins I'd never be able to even keep up with my 10 year-old skier!

I step-ins, especially on a small hill!

But really choice of bindings is my easy decisions. (Gotta be TD2 or TD3 or Cateks or F2 Intec step-ins... just looking for a good buy.)

The hard decision is the board. What to get... right now I'm leaning towards between 170 and 185 GS Race boards with less than ~13.x SCR... obviously if I had the cash I'd grab metal but that's not going to happen.

So I watch and wait...

Thanks!

[mackDan]

I don't remember a ski hill in Indiana (from Wisconsin originally), but I'll believe you.

So big guy, my advice (I'm only 5'8" and 168):

If you can find a set of step ins, give them a try, but you won't really need them to start off. You'll only have that back foot loose and with a little practice, you can be clipped into the binding in 15 secs. Can you touch your fingers? (your hands?) to the floor? Then if you are really good and there is a somewhat flat spot at the top of the run you won't have to sit. If you get step ins, you will have to figure out how to get into the biding standing up anyway, just like you are probably doing with your old Osin set up, standing up.

The best set up is a toe clip binding on the front and a step in at the rear, but that usually requires you buy two sets and swap the pieces around.

I ride on Cateks and love the adjust-ability. But they flex a bit more and loosen up and you have to check them periodically. If I was a big guy I don't know if I would use them, probably stick with Bombers.

Boots, listen to the other big guys.

Board, you could just put the bindings on the Tanker to start with and then see how you like it. If you want to buy a board, get something in the 167-172 range, and probably get a stiff race board, F2, or something else. yeah a slalom board is probably the right board for a small hill in Indiana. learn how to get it in a stable long turn and then also learn how to drive it hard into small turns.

[lonbordin]

@Dan H-

TWO ski hills in Southern Indiana!

Paoli Peaks

and

Perfect North

With step-ins I never stop... heck I click in coming down the lift exit ramp...

when you spend more time on the lifts than you do on the snow you learn to appreciate the speed of the step ins... If someone tells me I can boot into a regular binding this quickly then maybe I'd be interested!

I've got the boots and bindings are next... (Anyone want to offer me some)

With regard to board... I agree! I'll hard boot on my current boards until the right board comes along.

Thanks for the input!

Back to the show.

[lonbordin]

I think I could (maybe) make two turns before I was at the bottom on that thing... whoa.

[Buell]

SBS,

That is Doug Dryer in your photo.

Buell

[valsam]

I'm excactly the same size as you 6,4 and 110-112Kg's (44 years old) and long and stiff boards are not for me any more !!!!

I started hardbooting (after 5 years of skiing)in 1994 with an oxygen 1,67 FR (very easy forgiving all mountain board)and after that i kept on going for longer and stiffer boards (1,72-1,82) with bigger SCR'S untill i found a new 1,69 oxygen F2002 wich is the same as my old FR and i'm loving it !!!!!!!!!!!

The mountains that i ride are small and crouded and the smaller flexier board does it for me pretty well !!!!!!!

[Dave ESPI]

I think a lot of the factors are not just size, but also the speed we ride at all day, and the strength to keep up hard turns all day/night, and how much "effort" you want to exert to have a good time all day on a board. Flex and Dampness is one thing that a lot of us forget about untill noon hits and our legs are shot on a 70.00 day pass.

Some of us are still able to swap out for "soft sheits" :p and go another 5 hours!

Find a board U can ride all day and you will be a happy camper :)

[valsam]

I think a lot of the factors are not just size, but also the speed we ride at all day, and the strength to keep up hard turns all day/night, and how much "effort" you want to exert to have a good time all day on a board. Flex and Dampness is one thing that a lot of us forget about until noon hits and our legs are shot on a 70.00 day pass.

Some of us are still able to swap out for "soft sheets" :p and go another 5 hours!

Find a board U can ride all day and you will be a happy camper :)

+1 From me!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you 100%!!!!!

From what i read in this forum from other riders posts i get the impression that allot of people in here have supernatural powers and strength and considering there age too then it gives me allot of ??????????????,i was an athlete for allot of years so i have very strong legs and stamina (semi-pro basketball till the age of 37)and after 3-5 fast runs on a long stiff board it is game over for me because after that the only thing fast mean leaning carving can give me is a serious injury but i can ride almost all day on a soft boot setup because its more comfortable and it doesn't inspire you to go full throttle!!!!

[BlueB]

I definitelly can ride longer and harder on hard setup then on softies. However, that doesn't mean big, bad, stiff, old-school GS board... There are soo many mellow flexing, friendly behaving metal boards out there.

[valsam]

I definitely can ride longer and harder on hard setup then on softies. However, that doesn't mean big, bad, stiff, old-school GS board... There are soo many mellow flexing, friendly behaving metal boards out there.

I have never ridden a metal board (are they the magic carpet?)and i was referring to the old school GS boards if you consider the f2 2003 rs 177 ,nitro works racing 1999 1,83,elan ballistic 2001 1,71 old school,witch were very fast but tiering for me.

And why is it that companies still make old school tech boards ????

[BlueB]

Even the newer glass boards got mellower flexing from the models you mention.

Just other day Tenorman brought his older Prior 175 to my "garage party" and we compared it to my newer 181. The 175 is almost 50% thicker and a LOT stiffer.

Funny that you mentioned Ballistic... I bought one last spring, just for the fun of trampoline effect that it offers! I'm really looking forward to playing with it. It is not a board I would be able to ride dynamically for more then few hours.

Some of the metal boards are like magic carpets... I can go on and on and on, on Virus Vampire. It is mellow, it has magic nose that does half of the work for you, yet great edge hold (better then the most of the "old" boards). I have a big bad Kessler that is stiffer then my weight/fittness/skill would require, plus I really have to hammer on it to make it turn tight enough on narrower runs. I can not last for very many hours on that thing either...