groovastic Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hi there! The best mid layer I have is a Napapijri fleece, and it is already rather good compared to other stuff I have. But since most of my skier friends wear Spyder, Colmar, Bogner, Kjus and similar, and they are never cold and they never sweat (at least not as much as me) I started thinking about affording myself something like that. Based on reviews, I find Arcteryx to be best buy stuff. And Kjus seems to be VERY expensive, but people say it is the best by far! So now I'm thinking of getting myself some Arcteryx stuff like this http://www.arcteryx.com/product.aspx?Rho-LT-Zip or maybe some Kjus stuff like one of these http://www.kjus.com/flash.php?language=en#/en/mensmidlayer What is the difference between Arcteryx fleece and those "modern" materials (from my point of view :o) Kjus uses? What gives better protection from wind and dries faster? And breathes better? And talks to you when you're bored stuck on a chair lift...? ;) Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 While I don't know what the advantages/disadvantages of various materials are anymore, I know that my LL bean and North Face fleece are as comfortable as the one arcteryx mid layer I have at one third the price...just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I have a bunch of Arcteryx mid and base layers and am very happy with thier performance (warm, fast drying) but I've switched to merino wool for my base layer (Smartwool, Icebreaker) because it's just as warm but doesn't stink. I do like the RHO stuff but it's too warm to wear on all but the coldest, windiest days. I'd rather wear a thin base layer with a warmer mid layer if it's real cold. I'm not as picky about mid layers as long as they have a full zipper and a pocket that zips as well (for beer money), 100 wt fleece is a favorite, it breaths well and will dry very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovastic Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 hmmm seems interesting.... no smell in wool stuff? but my main problem regarding smell is mid layers since I don't wash them every day, and I wash base layers after every use. So mid layer is maybe where I should be looking at wool stuff. But it somehow doesn't seem windproof and I don't think wool dries fast... thanks guys! other oppinions? Could anybody say something on Kjus base/mid layers? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelc Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 silk next to skin and merino wool on top of that. all you need. never too warm, never smells, light, easy and still comfortable in the bar afterwards, silkbody and icebreaker are the best brands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I wear three layers most days. summer underarmour or cheaper equiv. winter weight underarmour then a light fleece. If its below zero I add a regular fleece on top of that. None of it is name brand. I never get sweaty and I have been out in -20 F in the wind. its all about properly layering. I also wear a wool vest if its sub zero or alternately a set of spine and shoulder armour. I sweat under the armour. The mid layers get washed every third trip out. The base obviously gets washed daily. I get a smell only in my neck gator so it gets washed daily as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdyno Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Take a look here: http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_listing.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302885382&bmUID=1233592386527 It's the MEC site, good clothes at reasonable prices. They won't ship some of their stuff outside canada, but it's clearly posted with each item. All their house brand stuff is comparable to (fill in any high priced brand name). You will have to buy a $5 share to be able to order stuff as it is a co-op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 silk next to skin and merino wool on top of that. Polypro has pretty much replaced silk, it outperforms it in every way except feel.I seriously don't think Arcteryx or any other high-end company is going to be miles ahead of well-made cheaper stuff like MEC. They're mostly getting their materials sourced from the same places anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I agree with Neil in terms of whether the material used by Arcteryx will outperform stuff made by REI or Mountain Equipment Coop by a large margin. In my 30 years of experience using this stuff in the outdoors, the synthetic stuff like polyester, lycra and nylon will perform well, providing that the cut of the garment and its fabric weight matches its design application. Arcteryx stuff is cut better than most of its competitors in terms of accomodating movement, fabric friction, and ventilation. However, in the past 10 years the stuff from Mountain Equipment Coop has improved enormously in these areas as well. I recently purchased a synthetic belay parka with a hood for preserving my body heat while waiting to run slalom and giant slalom courses. I took a very close look at offerings by Patagonia, Arcteryx, Marmot, Cloudveil, Mountain Hardware and MEC and REI, with price not being a factor. In the end, I bought an MEC Tango synthetic parka, based on its cut and features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I'm really interested in Beyond clothing: www.beyondclothing.com It's mass customization, with every article produced to your measure, and to your specified fit (tight, normal or baggy). Online comments seem to be generally positive -- I'm going to get a base layer from them soon and see how it goes. For most gear, their prices are competitive with the better-known brands that people are discussing. Anyone else have experience with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I do notice that in Aspen people who wear Kjus seem to be wearing less clothing. Not that it gets really cold here..but I freeze pretty easily. I liked the Patagonia R3 stuff, but tonight I just bought the arcteryx RHO pant. See ms like a similar material to the Spectre Zip T by Outdoor research (OR). The RHO stuff seems to be like a second skin, very comfortable- I would say also good for being inside a tent. It layers insanely well with the Arcteryx Stinger plant. Kjus... still wondering.. but I keep thinking I would look like a total skier in that stuff.. Also jackets are 800+ USD though perhaps less as closeouts approach this season. Favorite insulation material is polarguard 3D...very wide temperature range and won't lose its loft like down if it gets sweaty or used in rain under a waterproof breathable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolyMathMan Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Gosh guys, I hate to sound like a cheapskate, but I've gotten almost everything I wear from the local Cabella's. BodyArmor top and bottom, then the PolarTec Military grade for insulation, and HellyTech XP on top. I've found that I am warm, dry and toasty down to about -10, and yet I'm comfortable taking a nap in a normal room. Throw in a PolarWrap mask and a pair of goggles and I'm snug as a bug in a rug.I never seem to sweat so bad that opening up a few zip-vents doesn't work. None of this stuff holds water, and if it gets wet, just hanging it up dries it in a jiffy. I may be showing my age, but this is light-years ahead of layering on a bunch of sweatpants to go sled riding. After pulling the sled up a hill you were sweating like crazy, and when you got wet you got chilled to the bone with your clothes freezing solid. My father-in-law tells me stories of freezing a toe or two off during the Battle of the Bulge, and I am so glad that we can comfortably play in weather that would have killed our ancestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 the materials are similar- all you get with a top brand is anti bacterial coatings or perhaps a softer hand or nap or smart looking top finish on the fabrics. And of course perhaps a better fit or more athletic cut of the panels for movement. But insulation wise they are about the equivalent. A better fitting garment will reduce convective heat loss from movement though. The Polar Wraps truly work. About 14 yeas ago the guy who made them was touring with a walk in freezer. I went into a 10 degree freezer wearing only a sweater, jeans , and some long underwear. I put on the wrap and sat for 10 minutes.. I was warm. I took off the polar wrap and within 3 minutes I was freezing. Your lungs have the surface area with the alveoli ...of a football field- so this really keep you from freezing and dehydrating. I always expected to see this integrated into some hoods in technical wear... but it has never happened yet AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletProof Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Well, I've dealt with outdoor gear for many years (buyer+tester+selling). Base Layer: Patagonia capilene midweight thermal underwear, keeps you very dry, newer versions slide better below other layers, good cuts, anti-bacterial (they don't smell after 5+ years). Mid Layer: Pata or Arcteryx or Marmot or Mountain Hardwear. (polartech 100) I like the pata heavyweight/R1 thermal underwear. I managed to get a very rare R1 hoodie with stretch panels, angled chin zipper, reinforced thumbed wrists and a crotch strap, fits great under a helmet and guaranty to never get any snow down your neck. Outer layer: I'm a bit limited here, most of my gear has been for Ice/Alpine climbing. Arc'teryx makes amazing shells, some Pata and Marmot, TNF sold out for cheaper manufacturing / city users a few years back. Don't get anything that's insulated, snug but not tight over your warmest layers, full range of motion. If you normally use it below -5C, try to find a 'windproof' shell, you'll be dryer, more comfortable and they are generally lighter, more flexible and cheaper. Bonus if the hood fits well over a helmet and can be properly folded as a collar (good climbing shells are made for ppl wearing brainbuckets). Try to find good bibs, less bunching at the waist, warmer, no snow down your pants. Some bibs have adjustable hems (with snaps) that allow you to wear them with your usual boots without looking like bell bottoms. Short jacket if you have bibs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletProof Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I liked the Patagonia R3 stuff, but tonight I just bought the arcteryx RHO pant. R3 is way too warm to be active in, I wear Pata midweight + R1 when it's -20°C. Kjus... still wondering.. but I keep thinking I would look like a total skier in that stuff.. Also jackets are 800+ USD though perhaps less as closeouts approach this season. never heard of Kjus, probably hi-end fashion? never mind, just looked at their website, you are paying for fashion wear, put your cash in something technical. Favorite insulation material is polarguard 3D...very wide temperature range and won't lose its loft like down if it gets sweaty or used in rain under a waterproof breathable. Fine for lounging around in a deck chair or around a camp fire, not for use when actually on the hills. You can probably find a thin polarguard 3D bomber that is made to be used as an insulating layer under a shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 The R3 stuff is really only for those that get really cold. Like me... I typically try to wear the Marmot Driclime windpants all the time as a layer under my Arcteryx Stinger pants. They also are great for apres ski pants- and tent wear and even as make shift couch surfing PJ's in cold homes. So its either driclime next to skin then arcteryx pant.. You can run really warm in this combo because you can open the side zips on the driclime and the stinger pant even if it is 48 degrees out and sunny. Colder... 30- 20 degrees RHO arcteryx Polartec then Arcteryx pant. You lose direct air to skin but it still breathes well- but too hot for climbing in strong sun. Or if its colder 20 degrees a layer of lightweight capilene - the driclime then the arcteryx pant. Colder... 0 The RHO pant + driclime + arcteryx stinger pant Colder + windy -5 to stop convective heat loss patagonic lightweight capilene, Patagonia R3 long underwear, mountain hardwear vapor barrier- arcteryx pant Colder- 25 Patagonia R3, RHO pant, Moutain hardwear vapor barrier, driclime wind pant. --- Top The go to jacket for carrying few things in your pockets is the arcteryx Stinger jacket..... amazing for taking powder face shots all day long and high winds.- only weighs 480 grams...excellent hood... worth every frigging penny. It also works as a spring shell. one jacket does it all. If you need tons of pockets.. then the Marmot Climbing jacket III which I designed in the 1990's is the best. still the perennial favorite of ski patrollers and avalanchers. Under that- the discontinued Mountain Hardwear chucgach Jacket with Polar guard 3D modified by me to have pit zips. Super wide temperature range.. along with these two base layers http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/product/product_focus.jsp?OPTION=PRODUCT_FOCUS_DISPLAY_HANDLER&catcode=SPORTS_SP_US.SPORTS_WE_LOVE.CLIMBING.MENS.BASE&style_color=45350-950&ws= http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/ODR0191/Outdoor-Research-Specter-Pullover-Fleece-Mens.html?CMP_ID=SH_FRO002&CMP_SKU=ODR0191&mv_pc=r126 By zipping and unzipping pit zips and so forth I can wear the same stuff on top without having to shed layers even if its 38 degrees out or -15. sometimes I need extra head warmth- so I opt for adding a driclime hooded windshirt to wear under my stinger jacket hood. The stinger pants also have side vents so for days where the sun comes out.... I just leave the vapor barrier at home and open the side vents near the home stretch to the lifts at the bottom- the cold air dries you out instantly at speed. So if unless you are really at the extremes you could wear the stuff on top plus the RHO pant and driclime with stinger pant and be ready for anythign.. getting too hot??- unzip the side zips of the driclime and the stinger pant... or any combination as the temps change. or you can just wear the rho pant + stinger pant.. and chugach jacket with patagonia r1 and carry the polar wrap with you for the ride up the lift. Gloves: Marmot goretex Ultimate ski glove- wear them and when you see the slightest bit of wear smear some shoe goo on those areas - I used to go through one pair per year but with shoe goo I am on my 5th year with the same gloves. I might even get 10 more years out of them. If you have old smelly capilene.. hit the armpits with shout stain remover. Like new! The best thing about wearing the thin capilene as your next to skin base layer is it is easy to wash and super quick to dry..so you don't need to pack extra when traveling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovastic Posted February 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 great answers guys! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletProof Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Nice info, wen't to check out Pata's website... They only show a fraction of their products and/or they've removed a lot of gear from their collections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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