Dave ESPI Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 When I'm carving there's usually a 1-2 foot space between arcs...camber assisting in airborne edge changes! I agree with this. It all depends on our ride styles though. I have had many days where I'm rip carving both in hard booots and and softies, and it is a "subtle hop" transition from edge to edge and the trail looks a bit like a sidewinder with crescent moon carves in opposite directions as opposed to an "S" with connected transitions. Camber indeed is a factor for "pop in the hop", but isn't necesary. Camber however is good for "keeping the ice and slush from sitting on your board as it kinda "SPROING!" gets it off the board as it re-shapes in each turn... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colintkemp Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 Ditto as to Tex's tracks... My lines usually have 1 to 2 feet between edge lines during turn transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 Torsionally twisting the board out of the old turn & into the new one, the tip starts to engage before the tail completely releases, so the ends of the trenches bypass each other for 2-3ft. Yes, this is what I mean by one line... Typically on my sticks (164 to 166 range)I get maybe no space inbetween carve tracks...the big boys with 176 and above and flat noses would of course be able to overlap the tracks...I believe however from my own experience that it is the flex and sidecut that are important here and camber would come into play when you are on your way down the hill riding flat and have yet to crank your first turn...once we load on the initial turn thats when the real party starts...at least for me anyway:biggthump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 YeeHaw snow at 12,000 buttermilk tiehack sleeps below... So what do I need...Gravity>Slope>Snow,Powder or Groomed>Bodyweight> Length and width>Flex and Sidecut>Rocker on the ends please>Boots> Bindings>Stance angles>Stance widths>Angulation right or left>Cool looking topsheet>Appropriate clothing>Sunshine would be nice>Big Grin:biggthump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 camber, did somebody say camber I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 YeeHaw snow at 12,000 buttermilk tiehack sleeps below...So what do I need...Gravity>Slope>Snow,Powder or Groomed>Bodyweight> Length and width>Flex and Sidecut>Rocker on the ends please>Boots> Bindings>Stance angles>Stance widths>Angulation right or left>Cool looking topsheet>Appropriate clothing>Sunshine would be nice>Big Grin:biggthump Very cool, thanks for the thoughts and the photo. I like the green grass of the ski area in the shade and the high peaks in the sun. Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 Torsionally twisting the board out of the old turn & into the new one, the tip starts to engage before the tail completely releases, so the ends of the trenches bypass each other for 2-3ft. If you think about this for a minute, you'll realize that if you were riding a board that was able to do this, it would have to be so torsionally soft as to be almost unrideable. Carve tracks overlap when you change edges fast enough such that the tail end of your board hasn't moved beyond the nose end of your last carve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted August 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 Thanks for all the input. It's been realy informative. Softbootsailor, we need to get together for a drink, or 10 or so. Do you like rum? I am a poor boy, doing what I love most with what I have. This season my goal is to come close to what the Casper Carver puts out.... You have shown me what FREE-CARVING really is. We haven't corisponded, but your style is what I want to be. I gave up competition years ago. I've realized that it's "not going to happen" for me, but what you do is so inspiring for me because it's all about the soul. I am a soul carver... windsurfer... and even in-line skater... skateboarder... whatever. At 37 I realize that anything I do is just for the experiance, the "fun", the exilaration. All you guys with the money and new boards and ultra carving machines.... Good carving. I'm gonna have more fun with the few friends I have and the new... "used" equipment" I have.... I've been "flagged" for sevral months... Dictators.... My knees are raw. If I can't say what I want to say on this forum so be it. So I can't afford a 2007 or better Canadian or European board. If you off me for that it's on you. I love Burton!!!!!!!!!! USA, All the way!!! PHOTODAD2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 If you think about this for a minute, you'll realize that if you were riding a board that was able to do this, it would have to be so torsionally soft as to be almost unrideable.Carve tracks overlap when you change edges fast enough such that the tail end of your board hasn't moved beyond the nose end of your last carve. Excuse me...I believe I have seen some of the Karate Kids around here do just that on their purecarves and or maveriks...of course those boards are a long way away from long coilers or virius sticks nowadays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 YeeHaw snow at 12,000 buttermilk tiehack sleeps below...So what do I need...Gravity>Slope>Snow,Powder or Groomed>Bodyweight> Length and width>Flex and Sidecut>Rocker on the ends please>Boots> Bindings>Stance angles>Stance widths>Angulation right or left>Cool looking topsheet>Appropriate clothing>Sunshine would be nice>Big Grin:biggthump Good list, you forgot, canting>flexion & extension>cooler of pbrs(it's gonna be 100* again today) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 Excuse me...I believe I have seen some of the Karate Kids around heredo just that on their purecarves and or maveriks...of course those boards are a long way away from long coilers or virius sticks nowadays... mmm... nope. doesn't happen. no offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 Photos of what each of you are describing would be helpful. I believe that both of you may be correct at least to some degree. The terms used may be conveying a slightly skewed or "twisted" (sorry , couldn't help myself :D) description of what is being discussed? Photos would probably help clear this up. "Bypass, overlap, traveling passed, must be used with caution for they could be easily miss-understood? "Nope" is not so easily miss-understood of course. In the hours of lift riding, I have taken a few photos that might help if I can dig them out. Or you might stroll through a few thousand photos in the "Ski Area" galleries here. Or perhaps: --------------- ,,,,,,,,,,,,---------------------- vs: -------------- ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,------------------ vs: ------------- ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,------------- Edit- I had to add the commas because the space went away when I 'Saved" to the thread, leaving them all the same. would help. Happy Summer everyone. Don't break your leg please. It is not a good thing. Somewhere in the middle. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 Have you noticed how it always seems to be something we forget? I do remember Mt. Gay Rum in Barbados many years ago... and I remember how to make a good margarita... and after 35,000 miles on a snowboard I remember how to turn... and if the man who started this thread E-Mails me his address I will send him a COLDSURF sticker. I surf on my snowboard and that is the truth! and my sticks all seem to have very little camber and work just fine and that is also the truth. One of the great joys in life is dancing, no matter how you do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 Me Too, ME TOO!! I want a Cold Surf sticker PLEASE Very cool, wish I had thought of it!! (appears and clever German Gentleman named Hubert Sauter beat us to it) Coldsurf.com that is. I would like to buy a vowel please? "placholder":smashfrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 mmm... nope. doesn't happen. no offense. of course it is impossible...on current products, but could be done on the MOSHUN 333 a fantasy snowbord with no camber and 6" width with a length of 333cm made from melted glow sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Torsionally twisting the board out of the old turn & into the new one, the tip starts to engage before the tail completely releases, so the ends of the trenches bypass each other for 2-3ft. I'm trying to picture in my head how this would work... You come to the end of a carve (toeside, for the sake of discussion) and you wrench the nose of the board to the other edge. So you're leaning on your front heel, while still maintaining pressure on your rear toe. Does anyone here actually go bow-legged like that as they change edges? And conversely, you'd have to drive your knees toward the center of the board (if not beyond it) when switching from your heel edge to your toe edge. That sounds incredibly awkward. And then let's consider the fact that to maintain a carve the board has to actually be turning. What happens in the middle of the board when the tail is carving right and the nose is carving left? Until I see someone riding a board with a hinge in the middle I'm thinking this isn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I'm trying to picture in my head how this would work... I'm thinking this isn't possible. You are correct sir. It's really quite simple. You come to the end of a carve. The board's uphill edge leaves a line in the snow that ends where the nose was last carving. Your board goes flat and you glide on the base for some distance. The downhill edge starts carving, leaving a line in the snow that <i>starts</i> where the tail started carving. If your board has a 150cm running length, and you glided on your base for 100cm while changing edges, the lines in the snow will overlap by 50cm. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 This May be the dumbest discussion in the history of bomber... God, Summer sucks!!! :smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 This May be the dumbest discussion in the history of bomber... No, this is. The dumbest technique discussion would be the one about jamming your knees together to somehow change carve radius, which is also impossible. (any posts arguing that in this thread will be deleted) This one is close though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 You are correct sir.It's really quite simple. You come to the end of a carve. The board's uphill edge leaves a line in the snow that ends where the nose was last carving. Your board goes flat and you glide on the base for some distance. The downhill edge starts carving, leaving a line in the snow that starts where the tail started carving. If your board has a 150cm running length, and you glided on your base for 100cm while changing edges, the lines in the snow will overlap by 50cm. End of story. This is what's happening in transition, for about the length of the board, It looks like both edges were in the snow at the same time. I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm twisting the board 180*. Actively twisting the board into the new turn, for a split second, "feels like" the new edge at the tip starts to engage before the old edge at the tail has completely realesed. This dosen't happen with my camberless boards. With 28*/40* angles & a 25cm wide board I can get some twist. I only wish I had a pic me carving,let alone showing torsional flex at transition. Sorry for the flame war, I was a little drunk at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 This is what's happening in transition, for about the length of the board, It looks like both edges were in the snow at the same time.I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm twisting the board 180*. Actively twisting the board into the new turn, for a split second, "feels like" the new edge at the tip starts to engage before the old edge at the tail has completely realesed. This dosen't happen with my camberless boards. With 28*/40* angles & a 25cm wide board I can get some twist. I only wish I had a pic me carving,let alone showing torsional flex at transition. Sorry for the flame war, I was a little drunk at the time Really, the Question is what is the Lag time from when we start the turn from the nose to when that energy reaches the tail...I wish I had a video of Larry the Butcher or someone comparable to really slow down and see... and again far from being worthless this thread ask a good question... The truth is my boards have almost no camber and carve on a dime some have 3" and carve on a dime...so why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 The truth is my boards have almost no camber and carve on a dime some have 3" and carve on a dime...so why is that? technique mostly. the fact is, though, that you will carve better on a livelier board than you will on a dead board. Sure, plenty of people carve well on old boards. Plenty of people carve like crap on new ones too... But to any individual rider trying two boards with identical sidecut, width, length, and weight, The board with more camber will carve better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 technique mostly.the fact is, though, that you will carve better on a livelier board than you will on a dead board. Sure, plenty of people carve well on old boards. Plenty of people carve like crap on new ones too... But to any individual rider trying two boards with identical sidecut, width, length, and weight, The board with more camber will carve better. A board is dead when the materials providing the flex are shot camber is set by post tensioning by using flex two identical boards with different flex would carve differently:biggthump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 But to any individual rider trying two boards with identical sidecut, width, length, and weight,...Should you add "flex" to your list of identicals? If you did I have a feeling the "math" WOULD work (your statement might be true)... ... The board with more camber will carve better. So Pogos or Viruses carve better than Coilers or Doneks? Different for sure but "better"? kind of an over generalized statement don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 You are correct sir.It's really quite simple. You come to the end of a carve. The board's uphill edge leaves a line in the snow that ends where the nose was last carving. Your board goes flat and you glide on the base for some distance. The downhill edge starts carving, leaving a line in the snow that starts where the tail started carving. If your board has a 150cm running length, and you glided on your base for 100cm while changing edges, the lines in the snow will overlap by 50cm. End of story. This makes perfect sense but I'm going to ask a possibly stupid question anyway. When turning "aggressively" on a toeside carve (as an example), in some instances the front of the board leaves the snow while the rear of the board still has the edge set in the snow. During this split second of time, if that edge were still set into the snow and your front knee began to rotate outward into a heelside turn, wouldn't that be torsionally twisting the board into what you guys are talking about - basically wrentching the sh!t out of the board to make it twist in the middle, thereby popping the tail out from under you. Maybe I'm missing the point but you guys have me curious. In this video at the 2:56, 4:26 and especially at the 7:00 mark is this what is happening? FWIW, I like my camber, but I've also never ridden board with no camber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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