Burton FP's and Ultraprimes

[dano]

I got my NOS '99 (?) FP 173 at ski market years ago for $60 and then got used cateks for $70. It's a pretty fun setup and carves great as long as you are hauling ass and have hero snow. It stinks in crud, bumps and choppy snow, the nose is very flat and stiff and it likes to auger in or bounce me to death. I don't ride it very much but I have no regrets about buying it. It's good to keep in the rig just in case perfect cord happens.

My advice to any carving newbie would be to get more of an all mountain carving board to test the waters.

I think of burton as the deadbeat dad that left when the going got tough...so I pretty much despise them...but I still have burton jackets, gloves...helmet...and tools...GEEZ!

[dano]

After that critique, I think it’s only fair that Bordy post a video of himself showing how it’s done on the latest and greatest metal board.

In my amateur opinion, Noschoolrider is ripping. NSR is riding the Burton within it’s limits and looking very smooth.

Bordy complained several times how he’s always breaking Burtons. Well, maybe Bordy needs to change his inputs and ride the Burtons in the proper manner so that they don’t break.

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Watch the head! Might get stuck in a tunnel somewhere....

[photodad2001]

I think of burton as the deadbeat dad that left when the going got tough...so I pretty much despise them...but I still have burton jackets, gloves...helmet...and tools...GEEZ!

That is spot on!!! It also does explain how some go overboard in putting Burton down as though they've been personally hurt. So Pappy walked out while alpine was still in it's teen years, he could have left long before, even during the infancy stage, what would that have been like? Maybe Alpine was a rebelious teen that wanted to look elsewhere for guidance and was growing tiered of the "old man" always trying to control everything. "I"M NOT LIKE YOU DAD!!!!" ...sorry, got carried away there for a minute!

[bobdea]

After that critique, I think it’s only fair that Bordy post a video of himself showing how it’s done on the latest and greatest metal board.

In my amateur opinion, Noschoolrider is ripping. NSR is riding the Burton within it’s limits and looking very smooth.

Bordy complained several times how he’s always breaking Burtons. Well, maybe Bordy needs to change his inputs and ride the Burtons in the proper manner so that they don’t break.

you just hit the nail on the head, if you give most burtons proper input they fold.

if you mean the plates from burton, many people have issues with the bails, they're 1 mm thinner than just about everyone else's and this might be the problem and why you see so many broken burton bails.

[Bordy]

After that critique, I think it’s only fair that Bordy post a video of himself showing how it’s done on the latest and greatest metal board.

In my amateur opinion, Noschoolrider is ripping. NSR is riding the Burton within it’s limits and looking very smooth.

Bordy complained several times how he’s always breaking Burtons. Well, maybe Bordy needs to change his inputs and ride the Burtons in the proper manner so that they don’t break.

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John,

I could rip NSR and the board behaviour apart. I have met the guy and love his stoke. Glad his is having fun. Lot of errors in his fundamentals based on current technique. Lots of crappy things going on with his gear the whole time. Looks like hes having a blast and thats sick, but to say he is ripping on the burton sounds great based on the level of talent on BOL. Not to fair to truley reward accolads toward the prodect based on the video shown in my opinion.

Its your amatuer opinion...you said so. You know I was a Alpine pro for 20 years at the world level right....Wouldn't that make my opinion Professinol????

If you want video google me......Billy Bordy.......

I know where my level of riding is....DO YOU?

I can adjust my inputs to make any board work. But when some thing fails under my feet Its very dissapointing. Thats what any stock burton alpine board does.

And to who every used the matter of me selling high end snow boards as a negitive??? Wouldn't it seem that since I have probably ridden everything out there then maybe I have valuble info??

I am not refer to the begginer rider who want to try alpine, we have crappy burton boards in our demo fleet for girls and light weight riders to learn with and beat on, that all they are really good for.

I have put day one alpine riders out on burton gear in the AM and then placed them on current gear in the PM. even day one riders can feel a huge differance and come back with positve comments about new gear vs burton stock boards.... These are day one riders I am talking about. That says alot...

[Trenchman]

And to who every used the matter of me selling high end snow boards as a negitive??? Wouldn't it seem that since I have probably ridden everything out there then maybe I have valuble info??

I believe the statement made was regarding the Bias you may have toward selling new gear.

I'm not questioning your abilities, Nor have I seen if you have any.

[Bordy]

I believe the statement made was regarding the Bias you may have toward selling new gear.

I'm not questioning your abilities, Nor have I seen if you have any.

I have over 50 used boards in a demo fleet that we sell and replenish all the time.

I'm not bad mouthing Burton the company I still rock their gear every year in two differnet sports that my Image is used in to promote all over the place.

I do how ever stand by the fact that Burton Stock Alpine snowboards are out dated and proform well below the standards of almost anything made today.

I sell high end snowboards to people who know they are ready for and need a high end snow board.

These people stopped riding burton boards years before they are even in my market......

[Trenchman]

I have been riding Burtons for the last 10+ years .... It's what was available in Northern Michigan. So I guess I'll have to wait a few years before I am ready to ride the new high end board you sell?

Here is me on the latest gear here.

[Bordy]

What the internet does work there......

Only burton gear?????

I see all types of other gear for sale all over the internet has been since e-bay first started. The first theing I ever bought on e-bay was a Sims burner in like 97. Yet another huge step up from any Burton board. Wow and that was 10 years ago......

I cant buy this board anywhere local.....

[RDY_2_Carve]

Don't knock new gear. Case and point:

I waited till my fourth season to order my first custom. I've been through about seven different boards now including a Burton Speed and a FP 173. Others were a Renn Tiger 173, Axis 167, and a used Coiler PR173. All had their strengths and weaknesses. None have had such a drastic effect as the Coiler AM-T I received in January.

Started off this season on my rock/spring carver. It's a Hooger Tuned 163. I actually really like this board. It's a fun ride no doubt. I love the graphics and the tail shape. January rolls around and the AM-T arrives. The Hooger didn't see snow again until this past weekend.

The coolest thing is this past weekend during spring conditions I took out the Hooger and railed on the thing. Noticable improvement on both toe and heel. Also my confidence on the freeze-thaw-freeze spring snow was higher than ever. Sure it didn't perform to the Coiler's standard, but it did things I didn't think possible before.

I think your riding can improve immensely from buying the latest and greatest custom titanal board. If anything it will inspire confidence and comfort in non-ideal situations which will transfer over to other boards in your quiver. At least that was the case for me.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with experimenting with as many boards as your budget can allow when you first start Alpine. Somebody before me mentioned to try as many boards as possible the first few years then fork over the dough for a custom. That's exactly what I did and it seems to have paid off so far. At least for this weekend warrior who gets his 20-25 days a season in...

Sadly I'm nowhere near NSR even on the AM-T. That's not a board thing...it's a technique thing (or lack thereof).

IMHO having a newer board is good in the sense of I have no excuse for lack of progression. The only thing holding me back at this point is myself. I sure as hell can't blame my equipment anymore.

[Trenchman]

Yea.. we get internet..but only when my dad's banjo is in tune.

you can tunafish but can you tune a banjo?

It's pretty hard to test drive a board over the internet!

I did get to try out a few at ECES tho.

I will be calling Bruce as soon as I pay off my credit cards!

[Trenchman]

What the internet does work there......

Only burton gear?????

I see all types of other gear for sale all over the internet has been since e-bay first started. The first theing I ever bought on e-bay was a Sims burner in like 97. Yet another huge step up from any Burton board. Wow and that was 10 years ago......

I cant buy this board anywhere local.....

Is this board any good for carving or just going fast and skidding turns?

[Bordy]

Is this board any good for carving or just going fast and skidding turns?

http://www.hardbooter.com/category_s/17.htm

Go to size doesn't matter around the nine and a half minute mark. That was shot in the soft slushy snow that "breaks metal boards" according to most of the posters here. In like 05 the new 07-08 boards ride circles around the old boards. The board in the vid is like a 03-04.

You tell me if it carves????

[Trenchman]

Yea.....I tried looking at those vids a couple of minutes ago..they didn't work then either.

[bobdea]

Is this board any good for carving or just going fast and skidding turns?

lololololol

kesslers suck, cant set a edge for **** on them:smashfrea

[bobdea]

clebner, right click and select download file and you can keep the file even

[Guest JohnBauer]

I was able to download Bordy's videos without any problems. Very impressive carving at the 3:10 and 9:40 marks.

Size doesn’t matter. It’s how you use it. We need to quell the budding notion that you must own specific gear to make a specific turn.

So go tear it up on your old ass Burtons and Oxygens. I think most carvers would be happy to reach NSR's level. Not everyone wants to quit their day job to get to Bordy's level.

[Bordy]

Hey no fair I have a day job, its called kiteboarding....

It leaves alot less time for alpine riding, can't you tell since there are no knew vids on our site.....

Thats about to change however........

[John Gilmour]

Let's not lead this person down the wrong path. Just because you can't ride the board well, doesn't mean nobody can. For instance myself and many others. I can put any board on my feet and ride it well. Practice makes perfect.

Actually I can ride a Ultra prime or Burton prime or even a Burton Stat and make it look good- (I was a buyer for a shop for 4 years and demoed with a gang of guys who all rode goofy with the same size boots- we rifled through boards at On snow demos- and I can make most boards look better than they are) but I feel like one BIG mistake..ie too aggresive- on Burton Stats Prime or Ultra Prime and I'll fly over the handle bars if I overload the nose..(I'd hate to hear 3 weeks from now that Nadia broke her Collar bone or separated a shoulder from doing just that- and I knew several Burton owners that had that happen to them). yes... So I have to tail ride them..and there were a lot of tail riding boards.. the Rossi throttles were tail riders (pre dual tec) and the Rossi Eye- and Burton M6 etc etc..

Why on earth would you want a girl to ride a board that will keep her from riding a better and current style of riding? Why limit her? She sounds like a fit woman with a good sized foot for todays width boards. She is sensible enough to ask here- so why put her on old technology that wasn't even competitive at the time it was made?

Is it possible that the two biggest critics for buying Burton FP's/UP's have a hidden agenda?

One critic sells higher end alpine boards and the other is associated with a high end board maker.

As more cheap Burton alpine boards are sold, it chips away at the available market for the higher-end stuff.

Sure, Gilmore *(Ahem Gilmour...) recommended some other boards. But other than Oxygens, good luck finding those "other" recommendations. And did he really recommend some asyms?

***I sure did recommend some Asyms but not bad ones. Asyms are a super user friendly way to get used to hardbooting from soft boots- she doesn't have to keep an asym (and shouldn't) - she can get one super cheap- ride it for 6 weeks and then buy something else and not lose money. We had a Madd Asym (with a cool asym carbon top sheet) that was simply a phenomenal board- super user friendly and nearly all terrain because of its width- everyone loved it and never wanted to give it back. (including my ex-gf who stole it from Cappelletti)

Sure, I bought a metal Prior ($500 used and slightly chipped), and it's a waaaay ahead of my Oxygen Proton. But I wouldn't hesitate recommending an Oxygen Proton or Burton FP to someone that's just starting out.

**The protons weren't all that bad for light weight people.

No way a beginner will be able to tell the difference between the old Proton and newer Metal Prior.

***I would bet most people could easily tell the difference immediately- except in slop.

I consider myself an intermediate carver, and I couldn't really tell the difference between the Oxygen and metal Prior until the snow started to get icy. But, on icy conditions, the difference was like night and day!!! And what beginner wants to be out on an icy day?

So for the OP, get that FP/UP, improve on the cheap stuff, and figure out what you want. But if you've got the budget, you might as well spend it and get that metal alpine board. Because a good metal board can make that icy day feel like hero conditions.

*** She doesn't need a metal board. She just needs a board that can accommodate a wider range of riding styles...because obviously...as a beginner she hasn't honed in on her preferred style of riding.

IMHO Burton Primes and Ultra Primes are very limiting and also- particularly the Ultra Prime are limiting in terms of what they ride well in snow condition wise.

There are plenty of bad alpine boards out there- ones worse than the Burtons . How about the Sims asyms, Kemper Screamers, all Gnus race rooms, K2 antigravity, Kinetic (not sure if I have that one right), old avalanche boards (the first vlam alpine with sidecut like a ski IMHO), Santa Cruz made a few alpines- few were good, F2 Roadster, Cap construction niedeckers, Rev G5/G6/ G7 channel bottoms (which were ok on hard snow- but so snow specific to be almost ridiculous- I owned them too), K2's alpines, and so forth...how about that wacked out Nitro from the 90's with the 3d top sheet... or those Horrible Killer Loops fiber tube boards? All junk.

So don't think I'm just down on Burton.

And BTW I never liked our Madd Cap construction Alpines much either,,,,(hated 'em)

,,, and I would recommend Donek, Prior, Coiler, F2, Niedecker, Pogo etc. etc. etc.. over Madd Caps too. Everyone can make a bum board. We did. I delammed most of those in about 5 runs hammering them through loose granular. They only liked extremely firm frozen groomed and were too stiff without flex through. If you weighed over 220 they could work- but then you'd likely bust them if you were any good. We certainly didn't keep making those turds for 6 years. But the Prime and Ultra Prime kept going.. Lets toss the Burton Speed in with that too while we are at it.

It was just weird to me that Burton stuck by the Prime and ultra Primes flex patterns for so long without altering them. I felt that a lot of people tried them and found little advantage to soft booting and went right back to soft boots. The Prime did seem to improve a bit after its first year which felt a lot like a Stat and got firmer (at least they abandoned the Stat' flex pattern which was like an even softer Prime- super squishy easy to fold nose- much easier to fold than many soft freestyle boards) .. but still the boards torsionally were awful and they had poor flex through.

The most I ever spent for a snowboard... about $305 for a 159 F2 Speedster, new pro-form. I became the first Sims and Winterstick Rep on the East coast in 1982 knowing full well that I would buy more boards for myself wholesale and friends than sell to the public.

That being said.. would I NOW pay $1000 for a nice coiler or Donek if Madd never made another board and mine burnt in a fire..???

I sure would. Without even thinking about it. Would I buy a $1500 Kessler? Maybe if I had the cash- but likely I'd just wait for a dinged one to show up.

If I only had $250 for an Alpine set up- I would buy a old vintage board as opposed to a Burton of similar vintage.. I could still have fun on a thrashed scratched to crap Hot Blast with a gouged base with core shots all over it... with old F2 bindings and a nice 3 degree side edge. An old 24/7 from the 90's would be nice too.

I wouldn't ride a Prime or Ultra prime- I'd rent a Never Summer from D & E in Aspen instead. Perhaps a Yugo is not the right analogy..Primes and Ultra primes... I think they are Corvairs.

How would I know? Not only have I ridden in a Corvair- I was a passenger in one during an accident.

Go too fast in them and they become unstable and the nose won't hold. They needed a lot of modification to make them work better as cars. I suppose you could put a tinkler on a Ultraprime or Prime... (still would ride like crap- just stiffer crap still without "flex through") the tinkler would cost more than the board was worth. Similar to fixing up a Corvair.

[Petrol]

After that critique, I think it’s only fair that Bordy post a video of himself showing how it’s done on the latest and greatest metal board.

In my amateur opinion, Noschoolrider is ripping. NSR is riding the Burton within it’s limits and looking very smooth.

Bordy complained several times how he’s always breaking Burtons. Well, maybe Bordy needs to change his inputs and ride the Burtons in the proper manner so that they don’t break.

I agree!

Anyone who has been around various forms of motor racing has no doubt come accross very quick & talented drivers who are always finding themselves sidelined with 'mechanicals'.

Is it the gear, or the rider who is incapable of making it work for him within the piece of equipments limits???

someone here asked if I owned any a donekpriorviruswhatever. No I don't. I have had the chance to ride a few, and while I think the ones I rode are better for ultimate carving, they also were worse in quite a bit of the mid-atlantic crap and crud that I ride on.

Heck, I've seen some pretty skilled carvers who when on such a board can't or refuse to ride ungroomed/chitty trails that will make one of my old FPs or UPs shine.

why should a beggining carver be expected to have several top flight boards when one affordable, easy to learn on used board can carry them over most of their mountain while they learn and still be able to rip quite well under a skilled ridder?

[Jack M]

New gear is not overpriced. Haven't you noticed skis these days retail for over a grand? Nobody's saying you can't have fun on cheap gear. But I guarantee you, if you take a run on your old ride and then demo a new Coiler, Donek, Prior, Madd, etc, you <i>will</i> open your checkbook unconditionally and not even care what number you are asked to put in the box. Assuming your skills allow you to realize the benefits of the new tech.

Anyone else, don't embarrass yourself by questioning Bordy's skills/experience/knowledge. One of the best I've seen.

[photodad2001]

New gear is not overpriced. Haven't you noticed skis these days retail for over a grand? Nobody's saying you can't have fun on cheap gear. But I guarantee you, if you take a run on your old ride and then demo a new Coiler, Donek, Prior, Madd, etc, you <i>will</i> open your checkbook unconditionally and not even care what number you are asked to put in the box. Assuming your skills allow you to realize the benefits of the new tech.

Anyone else, don't embarrass yourself by questioning Bordy's skills/experience/knowledge. One of the best I've seen.

One thing I have noticed is that there are no "shops" that carry Donek, Prior, Virus, Coiler, etc. online. This doesn't allow for that wonderful thing that happens this time of year with skis and general snowboard equipment. 50% off sales!!! You mentioned $1000 skis. Here's a site you can get those skis STILL NEW for much less. http://www.skiersoutlet.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=105&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=32 I've spent my whole life on equipment 1 year old or more (except that time the Burton rep sold me a prototype but it was still used) for the purpose of buying higher grade at lower cost. I don't see that option with alpine boards. Buying used is my only way to participate.

[tex1230]

One thing I have noticed is that there are no "shops" that carry Donek, Prior, Virus, Coiler, etc. online.

Bomberonline.com

startingate.com

catek.com

hardbooter.com

need I go on?

Bomber store is full of end of season deals right now. I'm sure if startingate has any inventory left, they'll make a deal. I got a Madd from hardbooter mid-season for less than the madd site's price (it was last year's stock but no different from current model, plus it didn't come with a 6-8 week delivery time...) There are plenty of deals on new gear if you buy at the right time. Nobody discounts carving boards as much as freestyle or skis because it's not a high margin business to start with...

[skategoat]

Please...stop...

To the OP, buy the Burton. If you don't like it, turn it into a bench or burn it. If you burn it, I will send you $10 if you post a video. Get 10-15 of us to make the same pledge and you'll come out even. Make sure you wear a respirator because that ptex will put out some nasty fumes.

[tex1230]

in for $10 or the burton bonfire!