Insulating layers

[zoltan]

I dress properly with a wicking first layer, then insulating layers, with finally my hard shell. Currently I'm using fleece as the insulating layers, but still get cold sometimes even with a double layer. Do anyone know of something better I can use? I've been thinking of some sort of lofted insulation, but am not sure where I could find something designed to be worn under a shell.

[photodad2001]

A lot of heat escapes through your head, make sure you have a good heavy stocking hat or insulated helmet. They also make a ninja like hood/mask to be worn under helmets for added warmth. Good pair of gloves are important too.

[zoltan]

Believe me, I know. My helmet is very warm, and I'll wear a balaclava under it as well. After suffering cold hands for too long I bought a pair of OR Alti mitts, so my hands are well covered as well.

[queequeg]

My problem is usually overheating. I never really feel all that cold while snowboarding, except for maybe the first lift ride. 90% of the time, I feel like I am wearing too much.

On really cold days:

1 thin t-shirts, armor, polartec, shell.

On cold days:

2 thin t-shirts, armor, shell.

On mild days:

2 thin t-shirts, armor, polartec.

[Enzo]

If you're looking for a new insulating layer, check out a micro-puff. They're made with synthetic insulation (primaloft) and are much thinner and lighter than the typical bulky down puffer.

Marmot, Patagonia, Northface, & Mountain Hardwear all have a few styles of these in their lineup.

Here are some examples:

http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?site=NA&model=AA85&language=en

http://marmot.com/fall_2007/mens/outerwear/insulated/tr6_jacket

I have a Mountain Hardwear micro-puff that I wear under my hardshell on very cold days. I've been in single-digit temps with wind and I've never been cold.

[Rik Fromdahl]

i wear under armor long sleeve shirt with 2 microfleece and a windstopper fleece vest. if it's really cold i put on an old wool sweater (st. vinnies for 2 bucks)over the under armor. top it all off with a home made microfleece balaclava and a skid lid and i'm toasty .

[zoltan]

Yup, I think the micro-puff is the way to go for me. Thanks for the heads up; I'll probably pick up the Marmot.

Fleece just don't cut it for me, which is why I'm asking for something warmer. I'm 148 pounds with 7% fat and not the best circulation, so cold is a much bigger issue for me than most other people. If fleece was enough I wouldn't have started this thread...

[dshack]

One thing you might try is upgrading your underlayer to some Ibex or Icebreaker wool. It's supposed to breathe great, be warmer than synthetics, itch-free, and refuse to smell.

Before you go out and buy a micropuff or down jacket:

-Figure out where you get cold- you may be fine with a vest versus a full jacket.

-Make sure your hands, feet, and head are covered- dealing with these can make you a lot more comfortable.

[twelsch42]

This is a very versatile insulation layer I got this year:

Mont-Bell Thermawrap

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=73&p_id=2301223

Super light (that marmot in the link few comments up weighs twice as much!!), very compressible, and way way warmer than it looks. I don't even notice this jacket if I take it off and put it in my backpack. Makes it easy to stay warm all the time. All the ultra-light gear freaks love the thermawrap stuff from mont-bell, and I agree. It's like something from the future, really.

twelsch

[Allee]

Zoltan, you sound like me. I have a "-20 rule", because if it's colder than that I'm just too miserable to ride.

When it's cold out, I break out the trusty, ten year old polyprops instead of wicking layers as a first layer. I find it makes all the difference in the world - wicking layers never seem to keep me toasty warm, even if I'm wearing a fleece and then a fully loaded 3 n 1 on top.

Polyprops are dirt cheap too - I think mine were about $25 each piece. Mine are Thermatek? or something, but Helly's Lifa are supposed to be good.

[BadBrad]

Perhaps add some antifreeze to the system.

[bumpyride]

This is what you need. Hot colors for Hot Bodies. (Note: even medium sizes buttocks need not apply)

Actually there is no heat escaping from a 1 piece around the waist, you have the added benefit of being immediately recognizable and you will be a trend setter.

I also find a good down vest with an insulated collar to be one of the better insulators.

[photodad2001]

It sounds like you're doing everything possible to stay warm without looking like that poor kid from the Christmas story. "...I CAN'T GET UP!!!"

Try taking a flask of Firewater!!!

[Skully]

My $.02 American.....

One of my best purchases recently was a lightweight cycling soft shell jacket.

So on really cold days I have:

1 thermax or polypro layer, another polypro layer, soft shell, polar fleece, gore-tex type shell.

Then as the weather dictates, I can ditch either the soft shell, or the fleece or both, or.... With the soft-shell I also have the option to use it as an outer layer also.....

Here's the shell I have:

Fox Tempest Soft Shell

[crucible]

Once you have the insulating layers dialled, as well as the layers for your head, then the last secret is stoking the furnace.

If you spend a lot of time outside in the winter, you eventually realize that all of the insulation in the world won't do you any good if your body can't generate heat. Hydration and proper nutrition are necessary in order to stay warm in the winter without external sources of heat (like going into a lodge).

I carry a small stainless steel thermos of hot tea or chocolate with me in a small pack during the day, and make sure I get the right mix of carbs and protein in my snacks (jerky, chewy granola bars, and big ass chocolate chip cookies). I also weigh in at 145lbs with very little body fat, so I find this is an vital step to take.

As for insulating layers, I use a merino wool baselayer, a 300 polartech windstopper hoody, and Patagonia Diemension softshell jacket on the top, and a merino baselayer, 200 stretch polarfleece bottom, Arcteryx Gamma LT pancts and an Arcteryx Theta SK bib on the bottom.

I use a Buff, Patagonia ltweight capilene balaclava, and a Patagonia lightweight beanie under my helmet.

Under -20, I add a polartec 200 wt neckwarmer and a micro-puff vest to the mix.

[Fastskiguy]

I'm 148 pounds with 7% fat and not the best circulation, so cold is a much bigger issue for me than most other people. If fleece was enough I wouldn't have started this thread...

Dude, get some blubber on that skinny body!

OK, having said that I found my micro puff vest to be really warm-so warm I almost never wear it!

[Bobby Buggs]

Im in fairly good shape for 44 but Cold?? Im only cold if im not riding hard. With all these tech fabrics we have yer not working hard enough. I cant remember being cold for more than the last couple mins of a lift ride but once I hit the snow and go cold is never an issue.

[photodad2001]

Dude, get some blubber on that skinny body!!

Try a daily portion of fried mayonaise balls!!! They are DE-LI-SHUS!!! You'll be going down the slope with your shirt off and belly painted in no time. I think that combined with a flask should just about cover all the bases.:rolleyes:

[Erik J]

My riding apparel

-Warm, spring weather -

buck naked with extra sunblock on the ol frank n' beans

-Chilly, windy conditions but not too cold -

I import baby seal pelts from all over the world, the younger the better. Nice and warm but breathable for working up a sweat.

-COLD days -

I stuff my outer shell and pants with live kittens.....so warm and soft. If you find a cold spot on your body - it's time to replace one of the kittens. To keep from getting "cold spots" in your gear, pour a little kitten food into your outfit, the warmth will last longer.

Just a suggestion

[Fastskiguy]

-COLD days -

I stuff my outer shell and pants with live kittens.....so warm and soft. If you find a cold spot on your body - it's time to replace one of the kittens. To keep from getting "cold spots" in your gear, pour a little kitten food into your outfit, the warmth will last longer.

What happens when you crash? Are they declawed? Is this anything like "Ferret Legging?"

[Dan]

The key for me has always been an insulated hard shell. These are pretty hard to find these days now that the shell + insulating layers paradigm is so embedded.

I was lucky enough to find an Orage Mays on sale at REI - it's a GoreTex jacket with synthetic insulation (sold out now, unfortunately). Arctery'x also makes one, the Fission SV/AR (not sure about the difference between the SV and AR), which uses a GoreTex shell with Primaloft insulation.

I usually go:

-mid-weight thermal turtleneck

-T-shirt (I only use this to tuck into my ski pants and create a kind of seal -- my thermal layers aren't quite long enough)

-sweater

-insulated hardshell

If it's cold, I add a layer of WindBloc fleece over the sweater and/or a hat under the helmet.

That keeps me toasty at 20 degrees F and 30 mph winds -- those are about the coldest conditions we typically get out here.

For pants, I once found some fleece pants that were "ski-boot length" i.e., they ended mid-calf so you didn't have them bunching up around the cuff of the boot, but I can't remember where I saw 'em.

[Rob Stevens]

This is a very versatile insulation layer I got this year:

Mont-Bell Thermawrap

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=73&p_id=2301223

Super light (that marmot in the link few comments up weighs twice as much!!), very compressible, and way way warmer than it looks. I don't even notice this jacket if I take it off and put it in my backpack. Makes it easy to stay warm all the time. All the ultra-light gear freaks love the thermawrap stuff from mont-bell, and I agree. It's like something from the future, really.

twelsch

From the same line...

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=73&p_id=2301221

Best layer ever.

I wear it with a long sleeve, wicking base layer, then the space jacket as I call it and a Ronin shell. I've never worn so few layers and been so warm. Normally I'll overheat if I'm warm at the start, but not so with this setup. Even on snowmobile days, where it's ride, dig out and ride some more, going from full sweat to standing around waiting for a pick-up, I have been comfortable.

Also heed the words spoken by Crucible on hydration and caloric intake. Very smart.

[pebu]

I always alternate lower layers and upper layers (underarmor pants then underarmor shirt then fleece pants then tshirt...) and that creates a pretty good seal around the mid-section. The clava seals off my neck and my pants seal around my boots.

I guess my get-up looks a little something like this:

boxers, neoprene knee braces, snowboarding socks

skin layer pants then skin layer shirt (I think mine are Peppers or Hot Peppers or something like that) then clava

Then fleece pants then tshirt of some sort

snow-pants then jacket. I've got a columbia titanium jacket, so there's a shell and an inside layer.

My skin layer pants go in my boots, my fleece usually end up bunched up at the top and snowpants seal around the outside of my boots. If it's warm my jacket shell has armpit vents and my snowpants have side-thigh vents (which really flow some air when snowboarding as opposed to skiing).

My gloves are Burton mittons with the individual fingers inside and they're gaunlet style so they go over my jacket. I wear the same thing almost all the time, so if it's really cold I'll throw a heater in each palm, if it's warm I'll open vents and take off the clava.

[Hans]

ICEBREAKER ICEBREAKER ICEBREAKER ICEBREAKER.

I wear this brand for years now. Pro's: warm, stays warm, even when you sweat, doesn't smell at all (all that poly stuff smells/stinks after a few hours like north face, odlo, fleece and all that non naturals). I even wear an icebreaker shirt under my wetsuit to stay warm.

www.icebreaker.com

[John Gilmour]

I gave up on fleece a long time ago.

I run cold.. in fact I sometimes wonder why I ever picked snowboarding.

In the 90's I designed for Marmot. I made the first storm skirt bonded to 3 layer goretex- a few cool pockets and so forth.

IMHO goretex is worth it. It makes any insualtion about 40% warmer.

The colder it gets the more important it is to layer very evenly. ie... don't put a ton of gear on top and just wear lightweight long underwear. Even layering means you wear less overall.

I've never gotten away from Marmots Driclime gear.

Typically I'll wear a driclime windshirt and driclime wind pant next to skin and if its colder I'll add a pair of long underwear on top and bottom.

That stuff goes a long way to keeping you warm and creating thin layer of warm air next to your skin.

colder still...

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/m_s_contour_windshirt.html

I wear this under the Marmot windshirt.

If it is colder than that I might ditch the outdoor research and use a Mountain Hardwear Chugach jacket made of Polar guard 3D which I personally prefer to primaloft ...which I have found doesn't last very long before losing its loft. But it seems most have gone to primaloft.

On the bottom.

Marmot driclime windpant then my goretex pants.

colder..

I add Patagonia Capilene midweight (2) next to skin

colder

I add marmot fleece pants over the driclimes

colder

Swap to capilene 3 as next to skin layer.

colder use a marmot goretex bib

Also you can use the compressor pant from mountain hardwear (prima loft)

Generally speaking.. I alternate between slip and non slip layers. So for every grippy layer there is a slippy layer next to allow for maximum body movement and also to trap microlayers of warm air to prevent convection through the layers.

You lose heat through -

Evaporation (so get wicking layers0

Conduction (so make sure the layer on the bottom is not compressable -fleece works here for sitting)

Convection - make sure that the air near your core stays near your core. Make sure al layers fit closely without any bellows type effect when you are carving.

My favorite pieces are the Marmot driclime hooded windshirt (no longer available) and ....

currently available and I think an awesome piece in a layering sytem is the

Arc'teryx Gamma MX Hoody.

http://www.mtntools.com/cat/techwear/SoftShell/arcteryxgammamxhoody.htm

which can be used as an under layer or overlayer. it is a very light softshell and the hood greatly extends its temperature range. Currently i can not think of a day when it is not somewhere within my layering system.. not warm alone- but amazing to block convenction loss.

Pit zips help a lot to because you can layer up with the pit zips 1/2 open and then if you get cold...close them up or open them if you get warm.

Just make sure to regulate your ventilation with teh pit zips and other vents to keep yourself from sweating so you don't get chilled on teh lift.

Lastly...

Eat a burger.by 11:00am Fat burns a lot hotter than carbs.. I find the key to warm feet is fat in your diet while riding. Avoid Pizza and caffeine and sugary carbs.

Hot water with lemons helps hydrate and warm without the caffeine.

Also heat your boots on your car hot air vents- I turn off all vents except for the floor vents and pump that hot air directly into my boots (I drape a jacket around the to engulf them in hot air) for at least a 1/2 hour before I suit up.. Warm boots really help.

Down works only for extreme cold as otherwise it starts to lose its loft in the warm humid environment in layers. In the North East in cold dank fog I've found that going from -30 into a warm lodge means condensation within the goretex down jacket killing its loft. I've even left my coat outside the lodge to keep it puffy. down jackets aren't worth much without down hoods.

http://www.paragonsports.com/Paragon/Shop?DSP=40000&PCR=1:100:1000:10011:100085:1000014&IID=5006-9094&campaign=2570

ridiculously warm.. I call the hood on it...my bahama hood because even in high winds with snowmaking machines blasting you in the face and freezing Maine fog at sugarloaf in February I feel completely warm.. but not so Aero for carving.

If really cold...surround yourself with hot chicks- stay indoors

________

Suzuki Dr-Z400S