Gilmour bias with alpine board & hard boots ?

[Fat Old Bastard]

I've just set up my soft boot rig (Rad-Air Reto Lam LSD 164 with Flow Team bindings & Malamutes) with Gilmour bias and am wondering should I do the same to my hard boot rig (Hot Blast stiff 176 + TD2 SIs + Deeluxe Salt Lake City).

John ? William Blake ? Bordy ? Jack ? Anybody ?

P.S. Australia down here so I have a couple more months before the snow.

[maddman]

I have posted questions for William Blake with no response?

I live in NJ, maybe its time I hunt him down.

[tex1230]

He threw a hissy fit and left. claims he's not coming back. Question is better directed at Gilmour anyway.

[bobdea]

I use it!

[Gecko]

sorry I don't know this term:confused::confused:

[tpalka]

I use it with my TD2's as well, and it feels good when riding forward -- helps square the hips over the board. It makes things harder when riding switch (or fakie, whatever), but definitely worth trying!

tom.

[Terryw]

sorry I don't know this term:confused::confused:

It is just a method of asymmetrically setting your bindings. Your front foot is shifted more to heel side, and your back foot is shifted more to toe side. It has helped me. I like it.

[willywhit]

sorry I don't know this term:confused::confused:

me neither,please explain

edit:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=19924&highlight=gilmour+bias

[Fat Old Bastard]

And thanks to TerryW for explaining what I meant. I guess I'll give it a try. Months to go till the snow... too much time to think

[John Gilmour]

Those were fairly wide carving decks- but I owned 4 of them. And I experimented with the mounting positions... because..well you only got one shot mounting a board with a titanal retention plate without compromising the plate. Well I wanted a good board (mounted only once) so I took my Rock board- my first 165 cm Checker Pig G6 and peppered it with mounting positions to try and find the ultimate mount. I tried about 8 different stances on that board. That of course was "pre insert" era for Race boards (carving decks was a term that wasn't used then...mostly because few consumers could "carve" a race board at the time).

So the compromised now "swiss cheese" checker pig then went to my 110lb ex-girlfriend (who I decided could not rip out of compromised plate). She still has it- intact.

So I tried the same thing on a different board. A much wider and stiffer and longer Rossignol 173 VAS.

That Gilmour biased mount which featured an inbound front toe on a (at the time) very wide 1st year purplish color with these sort of 3d type graphics model (I think 2nd year it was a cool gloss black) Rossignol 173 with external VAS plates (the same Model Shannon Melhuse used) the plates were asymmetrical- so why not bias the board even more.... I thought.

To ride a board that wide with high stance angles you would have needed a size 12 foot. Also the flex pattern was very compressed and ski like with a very thick middle core profile (peaked at the middle) so it needed a very narrow stance... (not a huge customer base of really short guys with 26 inch inseams and size 12 feet)

and uh.... narrow stances with low angles....well they simply don't work. I knew that but still wanted to ride this board- cuz the base and board was at the time ...very fast. I did 80mph down the front face of Mt. Bachelor on it.

So wanting to ride this board- which had an incredibly fast yellow base I was forced to make some decisions. I decided to risk it and put "Gilmour Bias" on it. And Surprise... it worked! Even with a 16 inch stance. It wasn't too much of a risk because I was using sno pro bindings at the time (So I could eliminate most of the bias if I did not like it using the carriages) ..but I still had to change the binding position to have my front toe inbound (Something I would tell most to avoid if at all possible ....ie get a narrower board)

So after that it became a regular way of mounting decks. (of course trying to have little or ZERO inbound front toe)

By the early 1990's every Madd board we demoed (most with Bombers TD1's) went out to demo with Gilmour Bias.

And even today I still mess with it on boards and am amazed at how important foot position is on a board. Today I adjusted my heel cup on my board too far towards the toe on the back binding and found myself sliding out on heelside carves because I had moved my heel too far from the edge. Going the other way would have weakened my toe side carve- so the decision was to flatten my rear binding 3 degrees and that would allow my heel cup and toe to be more over the edge.

The end result? Good carves though not as extreme as before- but greater stability:D

So I can bomb faster and brake harder and only sacrifice about 10-20% of my carve initiation. I haven't determined what the carving power loss is yet as the snow is not icy enough to gauge it. And that again is on soft boots.

I may have to switch it back to do the 360's which I will attempt to get some preliminary shots tomorrow if the snow is fast enough.

As for hard boots- I use it on all my hard boot set ups without exception.

________

Chevrolet ss specifications

[John Gilmour]

Those were fairly wide carving decks (all ridden with hard boots and these incredibly strong Checker Pig plate bindings- the only ones that were hard to break)- but I owned 4 Chcker pig G6's (the G5's were even better). And I experimented with the mounting positions... because..well you only got one shot mounting a board with a titanal retention plate without compromising the plate.

Well I wanted a good board (mounted right the first time) so I took my Rock board- my first Checker Pig G6 and peppered it with mounting positions to try and find the ultimate mount. I tried about 8 different stances on that board. That of course was "pre insert" era for Race boards (carving decks was a term that wasn't used then...mostly because few could carve a race deck).

So the compromised now "swiss cheese" checker pig then went to my 110lb ex-girlfriend (who I decided could not rip out of compromised plate). She still has it- intact.

So I tried the same thing on a different board. A much wider and stiffer and longer Rossignol 173 VAS.

That Gilmour biased mount which featured an inbound front toe on a (at the time) very wide 2nd year (I think 2nd year it was a cool purplish color with these sort of 3d type graphics- later the boards were black) Rossignol 173 with external VAS plates (the same Model Shannon Melhuse used) the plates were asymmetrical- so why not bias the board even more.... I thought.

To ride a board that wide with high stance angles you would have needed a size 12 foot. Also the flex pattern was very compressed and ski like with a very thick middle core profile (peaked at the middle) so it needed a very narrow stance...

and uh.... narrow low stance angle stances....well they simply don't work. I knew that but still wanted to ride this board- cuz the base and board was at the time ...very fast. I did 80mph down the front face of Mt. Bachelor on it.

So wanting to ride this board- which had an incredibly fast yellow base I was forced to make some decisions. I decided to risk it and put "Gilmour Bias" on it. And Surprise... it worked! Even with a 16 inch stance. It wasn't too much of a risk because I was using sno pro bindings at the time (So I could eliminate most of the bias if I did not like it using the carriages) ..but I still had to change the binding position to have my front toe inbound (Something I would tell most to avoid if at all possible ....ie get a narrower board)

So after that it became a regular way of mounting decks.

By the early 1990's every Madd board we demoed (most with Bombers TD1's) went out to demo with Gilmour Bias.

And even today I still mess with it on boards and am amazed at how important foot position is on a board. Today I adjusted my heel cup on my board too far towards the toe on the back binding and found myself sliding out on heelside carves because I had moved my heel too far from the edge. Going the other way would have weakened my toe side carve- so the decision was to flatten my rear binding 3 degrees and that would allow my heel cup to be more over the edge.

The end result? Good carves though not as extreme as before- but greater stability:D

So I can bomb faster and brake harder and only sacrifice about 10-20% of my carve initiation. I haven't determined what the carving power loss is yet as the snow is not icy enough to gauge it. And that again is on soft boots.

I may have to switch it back to do the 360's which I will attempt to get some preliminary shots tomorrow if the snow is fast enough.

As for hard boots- I use it on all my hard boot set ups without exception.

________

Honda cmx250c history

[nekdut]

John,

So, I tried it out myself this past weekend, but for some reason everything fell apart. I could not easily release from the toeside edge, and I felt unstable on heelside. I switched back to my original stance and everything started to work again (as well as I used to at least:))

This lead me to believe that I already had a measure of Gilmour bias already set up on my bindings, however, how am I to determine how much I have or am I centered equally towards one side or the other? What do I use as the centerline and as points of reference on the toe and heel blocks? If it makes a difference, I am running a standard clip TD2 in the front, and step ins in the rear.

:)

[BadBrad]

I'm assuming you have to run steeper angles to use Gilmour bias, correct?

If I have my angles set so that my boot heel and toe are at the edges of the board, then adding any bias is going to cause overhang unless I steepen my angles, right? And then I'll have underhang on the front toe and rear heel, correct?

I just want to make sure I fully understand this.

[Gleb]

Bob Dea or Willy told me to set my burton plates like that, mentioning that, that is what Gilmour said to do, and I've been doing it ever since. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense, and there is less stress on your hips. Seems to work for me with any bindings that I use.

I think having too much difference between the front and back foot would have negative effects on your toeside.

[Bobby Buggs]

WHY did you guys have to tell me about this:smashfrea Now Im gonna have to check my chit:o

[Terryw]

John,

So, I tried it out myself this past weekend, but for some reason everything fell apart. I could not easily release from the toeside edge, and I felt unstable on heelside. I switched back to my original stance and everything started to work again (as well as I used to at least:))

This lead me to believe that I already had a measure of Gilmour bias already set up on my bindings, however, how am I to determine how much I have or am I centered equally towards one side or the other? What do I use as the centerline and as points of reference on the toe and heel blocks? If it makes a difference, I am running a standard clip TD2 in the front, and step ins in the rear.

:)

I had the same question about points of reference. D-sub pointed out that there is a mark on most boots that supposedly marks the center of the boot. On my Suzuka boots, this is a thin line on both sides of the sole of the boot.

I spent some time trying to figure out the center line of the TD-2's. It appears to me that the center line runs even with the bottom of the notches on the TD-2 logo. I thought it would bisect the logo evenly, but it seems as though it is actually just short of 1/8" lower.

Not sure just how important the exact center of everything is, since our bodies are not completely symmetrical anyway. It is just a beginning frame of reference.

On narrow carving decks, the bias is more subtle. A little goes a long way.

[Thumper]

For me, at least, it was John's recommended technique of isolating the front heel for heelside initiation and and the rear toes for toeside initiation that helped me stack my weight right over the edge. The Gilmour binding bias enables and amplifies the effects of this technique.

[timinor]

I'm assuming you have to run steeper angles to use Gilmour bias, correct?

If I have my angles set so that my boot heel and toe are at the edges of the board, then adding any bias is going to cause overhang unless I steepen my angles, right? And then I'll have underhang on the front toe and rear heel, correct?

I just want to make sure I fully understand this.

I'm just educating myself on this too but what you said is correct as I understand it.

[Surf Quebec]

Same as Bobby Bugs, another thing to try !

If It could ease my heelside turn, I'll be happy.

I'll try that tonight if the stations groom all the nice snow that is actually falling :D

[John Gilmour]

Well "Gilmour Bias" really is set up to get more of where you can focus your weight on your foot .... over the edge.

Imagine if your angles were an absurd 85 font 80 rear. You would be trying to apply pressure on the very edge of your rear outside heel and also pressure on your rear pinky toe.... both not very good places to try to focus tremendous amounts of pressure.

Certainly your skeletal system isn't supposed to bear tons of weight on your little toe. Now if you were to bias your bindings... you would get more power... but again... you would likely just be adding a toe...perhaps 2 to the rear foot..

The idea is to get the most powerful places on your feet for balance over the edge. So we use less steep angles than say 65 degrees and more steep angles than say 30 degrees.

I see some people asking about the boot mid point... that ODDLY enough...

means nothing.

It's good for ski binding mounting as a reference... but nothing more.

What really matters is where your foot is within the boot and binding..relative to the edge of the board.

So like as if you had Superman's X-ray vision.. you have to look through your boots and see where your feet truly lie.

You see so many boots and bindings vary. One soft boot binding's 25 degrees might be another softboot bindings 20 degrees... when it come to where your feet are actually situated on the board. They could be both reading different readings.. but your feet might be in the same place.

In Hardboots.. it is simpler. Since most people here seem to use Bomber Bindings and Raichle or Raichle derived boots... posting angles actually may help.

But what really matters is where your Naked feet actually sit over the board within the boots and bindings.

Nekdut- you probably went too far with bias. If you end up too inbound on your rear heel.. you can no longer pressure the heelside edge well after the apex of the turn- and you either washout completely or spin out... you end up turning your front heel into a pivot... yuck.

You have three options.... to improve your heelside.

1. reduce bias (good- pretty much back to where you started)

2, flatten your rear angle while keeping bias unaltered from the washout- kind reduces bias- (Will give better heelside hold and more stability straightlining and better emergency scraper stops- but may feel weird if your board is too wide and you end up with too much angle differential between the front and rear binding)

3. Buy a narrower board if your board is too wide and requires more than 1/2 inch of bias (Ideal)

If you choose 2... you also might have to modify your heelside body position for best edge hold. The other choices allow you to ride the same as you have been.

________

Clear Trichomes

[nekdut]

Nekdut- you probably went too far with bias. If you end up too inbound on your rear heel.. you can no longer pressure the heelside edge well after the apex of the turn- and you either washout completely or spin out... you end up turning your front heel into a pivot... yuck.

You have three options.... to improve your heelside.

1. reduce bias (good- pretty much back to where you started)

2, flatten your rear angle while keeping bias unaltered from the washout- kind reduces bias- (Will give better heelside hold and more stability straightlining and better emergency scraper stops- but may feel weird if your board is too wide and you end up with too much angle differential between the front and rear binding)

3. Buy a narrower board if your board is too wide and requires more than 1/2 inch of bias (Ideal)

If you choose 2... you also might have to modify your heelside body position for best edge hold. The other choices allow you to ride the same as you have been.

John, thanks for the reply. I was looking to improve and tighten up my toesides, as heelside has actually become my stronger turn. Regarding items 2 and 3, I'll give them a try. I've tried this on a 18cm wide Madd and a 19.5cm wide Coiler Stubby, so width isn't really a problem (27.0 boots). I might just try the rear foot, since you said that has the most impact on toeside.

[John Gilmour]

the Toeside turn really benefits from Bias.

If your heelside has become the dominant turn...it might be because of very hard snow conditions that you choose to favor it for fear of catching "jackhammers" on your toeside on bullet proof snow.

Try using driving he rear knee away to start the turn but as your edge angle increases (an turn progresses) quickly drive your knees as a unit.(this for only really high edge angles +40 degrees) doing so will force the middle of the board to bite in more.

Think of rear toe as helping to smoothly initiate the channel and then you punch into this channel with both knees... a little advanced (timing wise)...but it works.

You'll have to get low for this.

________

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