Thank God SB6900 died - POLITICAL

[C5 Golfer]

I'll probably get flame and hate response but I am glad this died. SB6900 in Wash State was to implement a tax on the size of your motor in your car. Here is the schedule:

The bill is SB 6900 and it adds an "engine displacement" fee to the

vehicle license tabs upon renewal.

The fee has a varied amount depending on the size of the vehicle's engine:

Engine Size (liters) Rate Schedule

Up to 1.9 $0

2.0 - 2.9 $70

3.0 - 3.9 $225

4.0 - 4.9 $275

5.0 - 5.9 $325

6.0 - 7.9 $400

8.0 or over $600

I am glad we have a few smart legislators in our government to kill this monster!. The thing this bill lacks is taxing the people that use the highway and the precious gas. Just because one has a 5.0 liter motor in his pickup truck that maybe is driven 4000 miles a year should not be taxed more than the guy who has a 2.8 liter motor and drives 75,000 miles a year.

Dodged a bullet on this one.

Can open - worms everywhere - flame thrower switch "on" :flamethro

[tex1230]

How would that have applied to my 5.7l hemi variable displacement engine?

about half the time I'm only running 2.85l

I guess we'll never know,,,

[C5 Golfer]

How would that have applied to my 5.7l hemi variable displacement engine?

about half the time I'm only running 2.85l

I guess we'll never know,,,

if it had passed which would have meant a bunch of dummies in the Senate- you have a 5.7 + 2.85 = 8.55 L = $600

[bobdea]

there should be a huge tax on big engines when you buy them new, a extra $2000 per cylinder after six and a extra $2000 per litre after 4.5 with exclusions for farmers, business owners and people with more than four kids.

it would only work if it were federal, what you'd see happen is engines would get allot better within a couple years and we'd see less hummers and suburbans on the road which would be good for everyone.

there should tax incentives for people who buy small, efficient cars to the point of giving them cash back directly by way of a reduction of the standard sales tax or other means connected to qualifying vehicles.

Fuel is already taxed pretty heavily. It's people who purchase pork-mobiles (the majority of americans who are affluent enough to buy NEW cars BTW) that don't like these bills, as a whole most americans don't care enough about their own environment, their children or anyone else enough to not drive a giant smog belching waste of energy. Since affluent americans are too stupid not to **** where they eat there needs to be laws to protect them from themselves and others.

Tho other option is a huge fuel tax that would cripple our economy and have the biggest impact on the lower classes who generally only buy used cars that they can afford and don't have the option of choosing efficient cars though they would if available. Do you really want a seven dollar gallon of gas tomorrow?

my last two cars were a geo metro and a ford aspire, both can fit boards up to 193 in them so don't worry you guys on long boards.

[tex1230]

if it had passed which would have meant a bunch of dummies in the Senate- you have a 5.7 + 2.85 = 8.55 L = $600

Nice Math...I hope they don't calculate my other taxes that way!

edit: Bob, you can't really believe that Big Oil, the Auto Industry, and Wall Street would ever let anything like that pass...

and who do you think finances everyone's campaigns anyway?

[bobdea]

How would that have applied to my 5.7l hemi variable displacement engine?

about half the time I'm only running 2.85l

I guess we'll never know,,,

that's a good question and the answer I'd like to see a reduced rate, perhaps meeting it half way.

[tex1230]

Also - just for the record, if my skimobile behemoth was offered with a decent diesel, I would have bought one in a heartbeat! Unfortunately, Europe gets all of the good diesels and we get same old same old

[C5 Golfer]

there should tax incentives for people who buy small, efficient cars to the point of giving them cash back directly by way of a reduction of the standard sales tax or other means connected to qualifying vehicles.

my last two cars were a geo metro and a ford aspire, both can fit boards up to 193 in them so don't worry you guys on long boards.

Gotta disagree with ya on two accounts.

First - we should have a tax incentive for people to move closer to where they work. The further away you live the more you pay in commuting taxes.

Second - I wish not to have an accident in a small car - I'd like to live or use all four limbs if by chance I get into an accident. Give me more steel around me.

[tex1230]

Gotta disagree with ya on two accounts.

First - we should have a tax incentive for people to move closer to where they work. The further away you live the more you pay in commuting taxes.

that may work in some areas, but the northeast it's just not practical. Generally, it seems that if you want to live really close to work you have to have millions of dollars to sink into a house or you're willing to live in an area with ****ty schools. anything middle o the road tends to involve a bit of a commute.

Second - I wish not to have an accident in a small car - I'd like to live or use all four limbs if by chance I get into an accident. Give me more steel around me.

+1 to that - I drove a Honda CRX in college - got 50mpg but I had a close encounter with a 100 lb deer and the deer won. Ever since my son was born, I want a big steel cage with a ton of airbags around him at any speed.

[boarderboy]

from VW, Mercedes (?), and Honda. All, "cleaner", involve some form of urea to deal with NOx (?).

If I'm not mistaken, Honda will take a two-pronged approach - hybrids (probably gas?) in its smaller vehicles, and diesels in its larger ones. I'd bet on diesels in its SUV types and in something like the Ridgeline truck.

I think the 09 diesel Accord arrives this spring/summer.

For the record, there were two adult whitetail browsing in our back yard when we drove in from middle school carpool this pm. My 11-year-old won was sitting in the rear seat (always!) of a diesel Beetle.

I dream of the time when I can drive from N.C. to ECES only on Jerry cans of filtered fry grease and one tankful of straight diesel to prevent "gelling."

On the general topic of energy conservation, most polls I've seen show majorities of Americans strongly favoring it - until it hits their wallets.

On that topic, he died old, sick, broke, alone and probably by his own hand, but the late H.L. Mencken got it right, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people..."

(I first saw that quote about thirty years ago in a Cycle review of, I think, the wonderful Honda Ascot V-Twin.)

Flame away. I'm through...

[willywhit]

you'd get madd chixxx in a Lambo mini

[Gecko]

Japan has been taxing engine displacement for years and it's lead to some interesting vehicles since their tax cutoff is 1L not 1.9L. but in addition to road tax the Japanese are also trying to solve a parking crisis. The little sub 1L cars trucks and vans (yes I said vans, that can seat 7 japanese 5 americans) can park 2 in the space of a Honda accord. Truthfully what we NEED is more public transportation. I could go snowboarding by train in Japan for less than the Fuel it would cost me to drive to Loon

[skategoat]

You guys crack me up.

With less than five per cent of world population, the United States uses 26 percent of global oil, 25 percent of the world's coal, and 27 per cent of the world's natural gas. It is the single-largest source of carbon from fossil fuels-emitting 24 percent of the world's total.

$7.00/gallon gas? Why not? The poor can't afford it? Ever hear of a bus?

[skatha]

$7/gallon gas is exactly what we need...

The first crunch, people ordered fuel efficient cars (this was in the 70's)

Now, I see people driving jacked-up Ford F350's 90-100 mph down the road and all they do is bitch about the cost of gas. It still doesn't cost enough. When people start changing what they drive and how they drive, then we've hit the market price for gas. Until then, it's still cheap.

I second the issue about living close to your job. Houses around my hospital are either shacks that are falling apart (N of I-10) or multimillion dollar mansions (S of I-10). I won't live in a shack and I cannot afford a multimillion dollar mansion. The cost of monthly upkeep is more than I make!!!

FYI, I drive a 530 but I chose it over the 550 because the 530 got better gas mileage-no joke. I go 85 mph on the freeway too, but I get 23 mpg when I do it-only half a hypocrite. My Expedition gets 15 mpg in mixed driving and I only drive it on trips or with towing...

[Petrol]

there should be a huge tax on big engines when you buy them new, a extra $2000 per cylinder after six and a extra $2000 per litre after 4.5 with exclusions for farmers, business owners and people with more than four kids.

it would only work if it were federal, what you'd see happen is engines would get allot better within a couple years and we'd see less hummers and suburbans on the road which would be good for everyone.

there should tax incentives for people who buy small, efficient cars to the point of giving them cash back directly by way of a reduction of the standard sales tax or other means connected to qualifying vehicles.

Fuel is already taxed pretty heavily. It's people who purchase pork-mobiles (the majority of americans who are affluent enough to buy NEW cars BTW) that don't like these bills, as a whole most americans don't care enough about their own environment, their children or anyone else enough to not drive a giant smog belching waste of energy. Since affluent americans are too stupid not to **** where they eat there needs to be laws to protect them from themselves and others.

Tho other option is a huge fuel tax that would cripple our economy and have the biggest impact on the lower classes who generally only buy used cars that they can afford and don't have the option of choosing efficient cars though they would if available. Do you really want a seven dollar gallon of gas tomorrow?

my last two cars were a geo metro and a ford aspire, both can fit boards up to 193 in them so don't worry you guys on long boards.

:flamethro:flamethro:flamethro:flamethro:flamethro

I don't think it would be possible to be any more Wrong headed

wtf, why not support an outright ban on personal use of motorized transportation and be done with it

[Derf]

Interesting thread, the kind I like!

The death of this bill proves that that people don't understand the issue, or simply don't care. Everybody knows the effects of cars on air pollution and global warming, so I won't go into arguments on that.

Big cars are another issue, safety wise. People always speak about how bigger cars are safer and so on, but safer for who? Would you want everyone to drive bigger cars? Then you would all be back to the beginning: all cars being the same size, some would like bigger (and allegedly) safer cars, so if would still escalate, but until when? When everyone drives SUVs made on the frame of a tractor trailer? What about the sight: everybody says "you see better when you're higher", but they're blocking the view of smaller vehicles and the blind spot on those things is huge! The "bigger car is safer" argument is nonsense when you think about other people and you realize that you live in a society with other people. And I didn't even talk about the safety of pedestrians and cyclists, because there are actually other means of getting around than with a car.

An interesting safety anecdote: 2 years ago, two of my cousins had a head on accident with a tractor trailer in a early 90s Civic. Both walked out fine from the accident. Imagine the safety of a modern compact car with a better safety cage and more airbags.

People don't need big cars to get around. I drive a Mazda Protegé with a 1,8L engine and it gets where I want fast enough, and it's the same with 3 other people and their luggage. It is a compact car, but it is big by the standards of some other developed countries.

Really, what does a big fast car prove? That you can buy one and go fast by simply pressing on the gas pedal? Wow, what an achievement... For the fun and excitement of driving? Not really justifiable in my opinion.

I'm always surprised that people never say anything about how deadly cars are yet get upset when a couple of people die in a gun shooting.

[Derf]

wtf, why not support an outright ban on personal use of motorized transportation and be done with it

Finally, someone said it!

[Dan]

wtf, why not support an outright ban on personal use of motorized transportation and be done with it

Yes! Now you're talking!

Seriously, one day we're going to be out of oil -- at any price. Is it so wrong-headed to promote conservation while we still have some left?

[Dr D]

Finally, someone said it!

here we go again

listen to you big city coastal dwellers rant about big vehicles. In the majority of the country we WORK for a living and that work generally involves power. when you come up with an electric motor that will pull a loaded stock trailer and a body that can take multiple hits from deer, elk, moose, idiot californian trying to drive his midget mobile in a blizzard, etc. I will jump on your bandwagon. until then ride a bike if you want to. hell I don't care if you drive a metro just stay out of my business.

Side note: the data on hybrids is startling. seems that they use more resources building them than they offset by fuel economy and on top of that they cost 25% more.

We have more small vehicles here now that you can get a decent allwheel drive in a smaller car. I drive a SMALLER vehicle here and its an F150 with the small V8. I would love better MPG but you can't function in the Red states without a truck. there is a lot of world out there past the city limits guys.

[Derf]

here we go again

listen to you big city coastal dwellers rant about big vehicles. In the majority of the country we WORK for a living and that work generally involves power. when you come up with an electric motor that will pull a loaded stock trailer and a body that can take multiple hits from deer, elk, moose, idiot californian trying to drive his midget mobile in a blizzard, etc. I will jump on your bandwagon. until then ride a bike if you want to. hell I don't care if you drive a metro just stay out of my business.

I do work for a living, I wonder where that argument comes from? You pull a trailer for work, good then. Do you need a truck when not working? A midget mobile with good snow tires is good enough for the blizzards we get up here in Canada (i.e. 1 foot of snow overnight). You are quite misinformed about electric motors. Electric motors are so powerful that if you had one in your truck, you would say "OMFG there is so much torque in there!" Electric motors are so powerful they are used in applications where a gas or diesel engine will not do the work, like in trains. The problem is storing electricity to power the motor for a while.

Side note: the data on hybrids is startling. seems that they use more resources building them than they offset by fuel economy and on top of that they cost 25% more.

I read that study (not just the results) and I found it quite biased. They made several false assumptions. The winners of the study is still compact and intermediate cars with big production like... the Mazda Protegé, which I drive.

We have more small vehicles here now that you can get a decent allwheel drive in a smaller car. I drive a SMALLER vehicle here and its an F150 with the small V8. I would love better MPG but you can't function in the Red states without a truck. there is a lot of world out there past the city limits guys.

I never drove an AWD car and never had issues with front wheel drive only. I can tell you one thing though: all cars have AWB: All Wheel Brakes and brakes are as important, if not more, than traction. I agree that not everyone lives in the city, but don't argue like everyone needs a truck to get around; people who chose to live in the city (or near it) don't need one.

[C5 Golfer]

Japan has been taxing engine displacement for years and it's lead to some interesting vehicles since their tax cutoff is 1L not 1.9L. but in addition to road tax the Japanese are also trying to solve a parking crisis. The little sub 1L cars trucks and vans (yes I said vans, that can seat 7 japanese 5 americans) can park 2 in the space of a Honda accord. Truthfully what we NEED is more public transportation. I could go snowboarding by train in Japan for less than the Fuel it would cost me to drive to Loon

Gecko -- is this a one time tax when purchased ? or is it like what they tried here in WA State where they would tax you every year? It is that annual fee/tax with which I have a problem. Penalize me once ok, penalize me every year shame on them for even thinking about it.:smashfrea

[C5 Golfer]

You guys crack me up.

With less than five per cent of world population, the United States uses 26 percent of global oil, 25 percent of the world's coal, and 27 per cent of the world's natural gas. It is the single-largest source of carbon from fossil fuels-emitting 24 percent of the world's total.

I guess that is the price the world pays for us to be a #1 superpower, a world police force, most industrialized country, the highest mix of free religion, the largest mix of nationalities and race, highest and first rate opportunities for all rich or poor, and the most freedom of all other counties.. So maybe being #1 has a price we are willing to pay and keep paying. :AR15firin

You don't get all the above you mentioned for "nutin honey"

Sign me a proud veteran of a foreign war fighting for other peoples freedom & paid for by American work force!

[C5 Golfer]

here we go again

Side note: the data on hybrids is startling. seems that they use more resources building them than they offset by fuel economy and on top of that they cost 25% more.

.

+1 - also they do not get the wonderful mileage what Toyota says they get, a friend just bought a Highlander SUV hybrid, he gets 22 mpg which is worse than my Corvette.

[Gecko]

nope every year you register your car and pay your road tax...registration is just that, and cheap unlike in say California where they TAX the hell out of you as registration. But highway usage (think all interstates) is also taxed though they call it toll's...my house was 2100yen ($20) one way by highway or 300yen by train...guess what I did???

[dingbat]

Yawn.... too late for this argument fellas. Enjoy what you can while it lasts and tell your kids your sorry.