DiveBomber Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Apparently im not doing it enough, So Im trying to figure out how to get my self to do it. Coach says im on the back leg mostly, which I can kind of feel sometimes. I think I do bend the front knee sometimes, and if i think about it. It almost seems like it would be easier with a softer front boot, does that say anything? Now im not riding like fully staning up with the front leg completely straight, dont get the wrong idea. I guess the Coach says im "driving from the back seat". any tips, wasnt sure if I should play with my stance or not but Coach says not to mess with that for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 You have a coach, and you're asking for riding advice on the Internet????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 You have a coach, and you're asking for riding advice on the Internet????? Thats what he told me to work on till next time, but gee thanks for the help :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big canuck Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 a couple good tips on my "Why can't I bend my kneees" thread in the general forum. Check it out. k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Thats what he told me to work on till next time, but gee thanks for the help :rolleyes: I just think that asking a bunch of people who can't see what you're doing is more likely to lead to regression than progression, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Take photo of how you think you look when carving in front of the mirror. Then have someone actually photograph you or shoot video. You may be shocked that you are not nearly as compressed as you think you are. Then get out there and "over compress" and shoot a photo of that.. you may find it is what you need... If you look technically correct in position... you are about 90% of the way there. ________ Suzuki Wiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 DB - hook up with JG if you can...chance of a lifetime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I second that DB, you'd come out a much better rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Id sure like to, Its just that being in aspen its not a day trip, so that on top of what it might cost (I assume its one of those "if you have to ask...."). Right now I've been training with Sean MacCarron at copper. We're working on some things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Good luck DB...just by having a coach/mentor, and using the word "training", you are already ahead of most folks! Give JG a shout anyway though - he's a really good guy...never know what he might do for you - like travel to meet you somewhere. Even if you can only afford one sesh it will be invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glynn Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 What is your back foot set up? Are you riding flat? 3 degree? 6degree ? You mention that you might try a softer front boot set up. I would suggest a softer back boot adjustment rather than the front. Sometimes if the back boot is too stiff or you don't have enough forward lift on it your back leg will be blocked and not allow you to get forward over or onto the front foot. If you can't get onto that front foot you will probably have trouble locking onto your heelsides and if you are way back it will affect your toesides also. Pics and stance set up info would be helpfull for us to give feedback. Otherwise it's just a shot in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 What is your back foot set up? Are you riding flat? 3 degree? 6degree ?You mention that you might try a softer front boot set up. I would suggest a softer back boot adjustment rather than the front. Sometimes if the back boot is too stiff or you don't have enough forward lift on it your back leg will be blocked and not allow you to get forward over or onto the front foot. If you can't get onto that front foot you will probably have trouble locking onto your heelsides and if you are way back it will affect your toesides also. Pics and stance set up info would be helpfull for us to give feedback. Otherwise it's just a shot in the dark. Well I think I'm getting closer. Im riding like 6-7deg in the rear, well, now anyway, been playing with it. Boots are Heads so Ive heard the're a little stiff(but they fit me best), however I almost always ride with them unlocked. I ride with a 21.5-22" stance, and 55-57 rear, (+2 or 3 in front) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I ride with a 21.5-22" stance, and 55-57 rear, (+2 or 3 in front) stance is kinda huuudge, try 20"ish or a little less 19.5 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 22 inches? how tall are you? unless your legs are real long that stance is probably pretty wide, I used to ride wider than I needed to as well, John Gilmour actually got my stance figured out for me a couple years ago. If you can buy a pair of BTS or Arnaud's spring or build a set yourself if your riding with the boot unlocked, I have not put enough time in on heads but with all other snowboard specific boots I've been on riding with them unlocked can break ankles and your boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I might be wiling to head to Summit county if I can get a ride from Denver or Aspen..maybe if we could group a few together.. Take a different look at your stance.... instead of worrying about the angles.. (Because that changes according to board width and sidecut anyhow..a bit...) Instead check how your stance and body position allows you to pressure the edge and the snow. A great stance with the wrong body position is horrible and vice versa. Think about how the snow is "cut" by you and how you can move your weight along the edge as needed. I'll tell you one thing for certain... if your front knee is not bent... your ass is way up in the air and seeing that center of mass is there...well it only works for Eurocarving, but it is limiting- you really reduce your cutting power into the slope. Two ways to slow down. Turn shape/turn frequency or Cutting into the slope. Personally for free carving... I like cutting in. It helps work through those middle of the day conditions. Then if you can cut in more..... you can go faster and take a way more aggressive line safely. ________ Ford modular engine picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I might be wiling to head to Summit county if I can get a ride from Denver or Aspen..maybe if we could group a few together... Denver I can do; I've never been to aspen :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor VonRippington Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I know of several in the Winter Park area that would like to join if it turns out to be a group thing. Taveling to Summit County is not a big deal. Please PM me if this comes to fruition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Because we, as carvers, typically ride with angles over 45 degrees.... Bending the knees brings our center of mass backwards. If you stand up in your Alpine stance and hold onto something and only bend your knees and no other joint- your center of mass moves backwards. Once your center of mass moves behind your heels... if you ARE NOT holding onto something... you fall over. On a snowboard we virtually extend our heels with the tail of the board. So the tail gets pressurized more at the finish of a turn. If you can agree that getting low is good... and that a lower center of mass relates to greater stability and increases grip over steeper terrain and high speeds over slightly choppy firmer terrain... well then ...low is good. So that is where ankles come in. If you also make sure to flex forward from the ankles first you won't end up so far in the back seat with too much pressure on the rear leg at the finish of the carve- by "frontloading" you are buying yourself more fore and aft movement. I taught inline skating for 15 years with over 15,000 students, and never had an injury occur to any of my students. Part of this was by teaching students where their center was over the relatively short balance wheelbase of skates. Coaching skateboard racing was not all that different in that I taught people to use knee Drive (Which is really ankle drive) to get more fore and aft range over the skateboard and hence more control over the grip of the board. So I might suggest that it is possible that you are running your front boot too tight and your rear boot without enough forward lean, or perhaps both boots too tight. I will assume your coach has already determined optimum stance angles for you and advised on changes due to your riding and your feedback from the strength of your toe and heelside carves.(BTW I am familiar with Head Boots as I ride the Head Stratos for lack of finding a better fitting boot for my foot and calf) Now- here's something counter intutitive.... If you RAISE your rear heel and add more forward and sometimes lateral cant (depending on angle and flexibility of your ankle and your boots) sometimes raising the rear heel can allow you to DROP your center of mass lower while also allowing for a more aggressive front weighting when dropping into that position. This can get your rear toes closer in the vertical plane to the edge by increasing your lateral cant in combination with your vertical cant giving you a more powerful toe side carve. In skateboard racing (yes I know snowboarding is not skateboarding... but I would also argue that those who object most fiercely to this comparison have never actually ridden a well tuned high performance composite slalom racing skateboard with decent technique) there is a recent trend for raised rear platforms with "kicktail like" angles where the ball of the rear foot rests... this trend is nothing different than Alpine Snowboard canting.. and some advice I gave to a kid who is now ranked 3rd in amatuer standings was not to only cant forward but also to carefully measure the height of the center of his knee from the ground as he adjusted his lateral canting. Lateral cantig done properly can drop you over an inch lower than just forward canting alone. Now he rides with knee drive he never had before because he can EASILY FEEL the difference between using knee drive (Ankle drive) and NOT using it. Typically I would tell people to mess with one variable at a time. But in the case of radically changing a riding style sometimes it is better to change several variables at once and make the person adapt to a completely new "Proceedure" of set up for a carve. Ie just loosening the boots or changing the flex settings might not get your rear ankle in the right position...and just charging with your front boot might not get you low enough either. Sometimes the angles are good but the stance width (could you be too wide for your boots flex pattern and your own flexibility or canting? For your current stance width I would guess you must be AT LEAST 6 foot 2 or taller for that to be comfortable for you), cant and boot settings need to be addressed instead. AND Don't just turn, turn,turn ...think about what you DID to make the turn you just made...and then modify your next turn to adjust and see if you are improving or decreasing your turn technique. Every turn is a mini experiment.. ________ Stocks To Buy Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I chose bad terms... ooops. :o Thanks WB I should not have used lateral.. I should know lateral from medial from lateral because I tore one in each knee. lol in pain..wince... Thanks for the correction. :) I was referring to lateral as towards the edge of the board instead of towards the front. And slalom skateboarders do in fact use medial canting relative to their knee with a kicktail- sorry late night post. Anyway what I should have said- in a stance that is set up wrong... you can get in a a position where either your body can lead or lag the edge pressure that is optimal in a turn. If you ever got completely locked and stuck on a carve you may have had initlal lag due to wrong canting and perhaps tried to compensate with extra binding height. Once you "tipped the ship over" you found it hard to "right it back to center. Or you may find that before you get your body to be in the optimal position your board is already beginning to tip too early. So you are not in the right body position soon enough to handle the forces that build so quickly such as on steeps. Ankle drive merely insures you are pressuring the tongue of your boot- and again I find that I don't always pressure the tongue of the boot symmetrically either and it will change according to the type of turn you make as well as how many degrees you are turning through. My experience with teleboards... was short lived. :rolleyes: (I do remember those trees) but what I did notice was that the increase in fore and aft movement changed the way you approached a turn. The telebinding was like having a "Super ankle" and though I could not pressure a turn as hard as I could on a carving deck (could have been the alpine boards had better flex patterns and materials)- I was able to more aggressively go after a turn in mediocre or what I would deem unridable conditions on any alpine board. I personally have never been able to comfortably ride in downhill ski boots (unless hot knifed to death) and believe that the extra degree of freedom from the ankle is worth the effort. That is not to say that some people don't have great success with ski boots. Years ago when I met Anton Pogue he was using ancient pairs of Raichle flexion comps- when I saw him doing that he was using flexy burton race plates with no canting. Initially it is easier to learn with more degrees of freedom so that a improper stance is not as much of a handicap. As you get to know your ideal stance better you can begin to remove some of the uneeded degrees of freedom if it allows you to concentrate more force where it is needed most. Giving up all ankle flexion for me personally would cripple my riding even with an optimized stance for others it might not make such a big difference. FWIW I actually ride without ankle flexion if I my knee ligaments are sore from riding chop- but I find it makes me ride a lot from the back seat. ________ FORD PINTO ENGINE PICTURE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Wow....this is why I come to BOL. Thank you for this valuable info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I also never thought you meant to ride without ankle flexion.. I just could not understand why a coach would try to remove ankles from the equation permenently . They are the closest joint to the board. I think it is a great drill to try and ride without ankles and indeed to try and isolate different body parts- improve the technique and reunite the body parts with new motor skills. I teach this in many sports. But I likely would not go as far as to fit a snowboarder with special boots for this purpose. (I realize you would not do this- just other coaches). And if we rode with our ankles more than our knees.. we may as well be back in Sorels riding in the 80's :D You've got me beat by several knee surgeries. I'll defer to your ligaments :) ________ FORD SKYLINER SPECIFICATIONS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie00 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 indeed this is a very intresting thread. You guys have been talking a lot about Ankle flexion but there was no metion of riding on the walk mode vs locked or vs a BTS system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 That is not to say that some people don't have great success with ski boots. Years ago when I met Anton Pogue he was using ancient pairs of Raichle flexion comps- when I saw him doing that he was using flexy burton race plates with no canting. LOL JG...Anton was at our two USASA SVSS Slalom races at Bromley today - he's coaching kids in Southern VT this winter. He set, and fore-ran both courses, as well as our GS yesterday. And he was riding on....ancient pairs of Raichle flexion comps using flexy burton race plates with no canting! Set up on a stiffened Donek (extra layer of carbon on the topsheet) with a tinkler plate. Still rippin'! To both you and william - thanks for the in-depth discussions above...good stuff!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 indeed this is a very intresting thread. You guys have been talking a lot about Ankle flexion but there was no metion of riding on the walk mode vs locked or vs a BTS system. NEVER RIDE IN WALK MODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 maybe ok for a run or two, but "walk" mode is just that - for walking. search the threads in the main forum for the disastrous possibilities of riding in walk mode all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.