Hardbooting instructor in trouble

[BlueB]

Yestersday at the first Cypress Staff training I was asked to teach on soft boots this year. :(

Funny part is that person who asked me to do so is our Snow School Assistant Director and she is a skier. However, I think there's one, or more, senior snowboard instructors behind it... One of the analogies made was that it's just as I was instructing alpine skiing on the tele gear!?!

However, I've put up a good fight for hardbooting case, explaining CASI's position that no gear is favored over other, as long as instructor can demonstrate propper technique and balanced aligned stance. I argued there was not a single complaint from the clients last year, contrary, there were quite a few good comments. Finaly I mentioned that I did CASI 1 course on hard boots, just to prove to myself that I can teach on hard gear.

For now, it seems that I've won the first round...

Also, Ruwi has joined our ranks and is also planning to teach on h/b.

We'll keep you posted.

Boris

[Thor VonRippington]

You teach body movement... not gear selection... eh?

They should also demand all students ride the newest top of the line gear so as to reach maximum ability more quickly.

Discrimination against the material that your boots are made of?

[crucible]

Stick to your guns my friend.

I'm ready to back you and Ruwi up if you need me.

I want to do my CASI level 1 this season so that I can play with you guys....

[bobdea]

you're in ski boots too, right?

that's extra insulting to the little softboot trend whores.

stick to your guns man.

[Steve Prokopiw]

good fight.I am cert 3 and freestyle accredited and the vast majority of it (over 1800 provable teaching days)on hardboots.Not without some resistance though.The thing is,under the ADA act,even though I don't have any official handicaps,I think I could make a case for needing hardboots to do the job due to weak ankles and foot pain caused by softboots.The main thing however is to be able to do whatever demos are required.I have also been able to make the case that my clients are more easily able to see what is going on with ankle flex because of the angles I ride.Some supervisors,including some at Vail will arbitraily decide with little or no personal knowledge that clients are going to feel short changed by or resentful of an instructor who looks different.Hmm,smacks of prejudice,don't you think?Again, if an instructor with one leg (who quite obviously looks different)proves they can properly demonstrate a task even with outriggers,they must, by law, be considered for the job of ski instructor without prejudice.Believe me I might have been more accepted when it came to the local politics of skischool or AASI (though I have been treated well most of the time)on soft boots but it would not have been worth it.This is a worthwhile issue and I hope you stick to it.Good luck .Steve

[Corey]

To play devil's advocate:

I've heard a number of times of people on these forums signing up for carving lessons and being disappointed when the instructor showed up in softboots. Are they wrong too?

I don't doubt that you could successfully teach a softbooter, but the whole process may start off on the wrong foot when they see you in what may as well be alien footwear to most of the soft boot crowd.

Personally, I'd want the instructor's equipment to be of the same basic type as mine.

[tex1230]

To play devil's advocate:

I've heard a number of times of people on these forums signing up for carving lessons and being disappointed when the instructor showed up in softboots. Are they wrong too?

I don't doubt that you could successfully teach a softbooter, but the whole process may start off on the wrong foot when they see you in what may as well be alien footwear to most of the soft boot crowd.

Personally, I'd want the instructor's equipment to be of the same basic type as mine.

Since I'm one of the complainers I'll address that...

If I sign up for a "Snowboarding lesson" I don't care what the guy is wearing on his feet.

If I go into the ski school and say "I want an Alpine/Hardboot snowboard lesson" and the guy shows up on a freestyle rig, I have a problem...aside from the fact that I'm paying for a private lesson.

Group lessons - it doesn't matter what you're wearing/riding.

Private lessons - listen to your client's requests. This is the fault of the ski school director, not the individual instructor.

[Jack M]

4 years (part time) all in hardboots, hundreds of newbies served.

[BlueB]

To play devil's advocate:

...

Personally, I'd want the instructor's equipment to be of the same basic type as mine.

Facts:

90% of my begginers last year never even noticed that my gear was different.

Majority of the advanced students did notice the h/boots and were stocked with level of performance and expressed interest in trying it out.

[BlueB]

you're in ski boots too, right?

that's extra insulting to the little softboot trend whores.

stick to your guns man.

Right, flexy ski boots. But at least the Snow School directors should be glad about it - I'm able to teach ski lesson, when need be, at instant notice.

[Rob Stevens]

Post this in the CASI forum and see what Jeff Chandler has to say.

The only shortcoming I can see is the different alignment you're demonstrating... That detail doesn't seen to slow the learning curve, but it's hard to compare the 2 types side-by-side.

[Sinecure]

Easy solution:

Put your boots in walk mode and voila! They are soft.

[dano]

Is this one of those standardized "Burton" schools?

So I'm curious how this got to management's attention. Did newbies complain about being confused? Was it some OCD skier/manager trying to pigeon-hole you? Wha'appen?

A little diversity is sooooo scary?

[Phil]

This really sucks. I don't have time to invest in a good response right now, but here is an old thread where this was discussed:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=8568

[Steve Prokopiw]

Easy solution:

Put your boots in walk mode and voila! They are soft.

Exactly!Not to mention the distinct advantage of getting in and out of the bindings(especially with intecs) when working with lower levels or multiple demos etc.I have also offered a personal guarantee to students that I would get them a refund and take no pay from my employer if they were dissatisfied.I have never once been taken up on that offer.

[BlueB]

Post this in the CASI forum and see what Jeff Chandler has to say.

The only shortcoming I can see is the different alignment you're demonstrating... That detail doesn't seen to slow the learning curve, but it's hard to compare the 2 types side-by-side.

Rob, thanks for input.

I think that, for now, I'll refrain from stirring it up on CASI forum - it might have negative effect, as majority of instructors are soft boot riders and not every one would be frienly orientated towards h/booter.

As I mentioned, it seems that I've won the first round of discussions with my superiors...

Now, I guess that I could write to Jeff personally if need be. Can I contact him through CASI site?

Also, can I count on your expert opinion if it comes to a push?

As for the alignment, I ride, especially when I teach, with all the body axis alligned, just as promoted by CASI. However, the alignment to board is what bindings dictate, in 45 region. This year I' ve got even shorter and wider board, 23.5 waist, so the angles will be even flatter...

To me, the main reason of getting into snowboard teaching was to promote alpine riding. If I can't do that, I might just go back to freecarving around and being ambasador of the sport just by example and h/boot presence at the hill.

This story came as a bit of shock, as my last years supervisors were more then happy with my teaching and level of riding. To the extent that I often tought intermediates, which would normally be assigned to Level 2 or 3 instructors... Actually, when I started I was encouraged to do it on the type of gear I'm most comfortable with.

Now these 2 guys have gone and I'll have to prove myself all over again.

It's just drives me mad to know that someone in instructor's ranks still didn't like the fact that I'm on h/b and made effort to convince the assistant director (who as a skier doesn't interfere much with snowboard part of school).

Thanks a lot to everyone for support.

Boris

[gabor]

Teaching with the same type of equipment as the students can be a better choice. How can you prove in hardboots that carving on soft gear is doable?

Last year I converted some buddies to alpine riders. Teaching on soft gear, after the lesson immediately changing to hardboots and carving the hills. More impressive than trying to prove in hard gear that everything is doable with that.

[BlueB]

Teaching with the same type of equipment as the students can be a better choice.

Why? I'm teaching technique, not gear. If I use soft boots I just parrot what's already on the hill. If I use hard boots I show another viable alternative. Even if I am on soft gear, my angles would have been in the region of 35/25, so no big difference to what I ride on wide board in h/boots.

Finaly, I can not stress enough, from my experience - begginers do not even notice the gear difference and the advanced ones are amazedby performance of alpine gear.

How can you prove in hardboots that carving on soft gear is doable?

Why should I prove it's doable on soft gear? They can try each setup and decide for themselves.

More impressive than trying to prove in hard gear that everything is doable with that.

I'm not trying to prove that hard gear is for everything. I do not even teach park or freestyle.

Boris

[Neil Gendzwill]

One service that Boris is performing, especially in his neck of the woods, is exposing the very existence of alpine gear to people. These days a lot of people don't even know what it is, especially in western resorts.

[Steve Prokopiw]

For me it's about not being in pain while I do my job as much as any other factor.I also demo to my students that my hardboots flex just as much as most softboots and that angles are a personal preference.I also know an examiner that rode and maybe still does duck on Raichles.What Neil said about exposure to hardbooting rings true in my approach as well.There is choice out there,but it seems like people in leadership or with a stake in the style or trend of things feel threatened by that which looks different.

[trailertrash]

First off, I am not familiar with ski resort operation and how ski schools are set up. But ... isn't this more about employee/employer relations? Your employer asked you to do something. If you don't want to you can seek other employement. I don't really see this as the man keeping the hbooter down. If your employer is paying for your service then it is their call. I am not saying I agree with it though.

[Dave ESPI]

I have 13 years riding and 12 of it is in softboots. I raced in softboots with Burton 1998 3strap Custom Freeride bindings, against people in full hardbootset ups, and I kept right up with them. A lot of the movements are the same and adjustments to attitude and body alignment is the only real different thing.

I teach at Jiminy peak, and can do it in both hard and soft gear. Many times I'd be comming down off teh hill and they would need me at lineup to teach, and I would not have time to change gear, so off I went to teach never/evers in hardboots. I would just explain tho them that there is no difference in wha the basics were, hust the ride style was more agressive of a stance.

I teach in softboots because thats what people ride in. Carvers are a rare thing on 90% of the mountains in the northeast unless there is a race of some sort going on. When I'm in hardboots, I fly and tend to try and be fluid and hould a perfect form line, so it is hard to establish a rhythm when you have to stop and go with lessons unless teaching a more advanced group.

This will be my second official year in hardboots. I'm anxious to get some hero snow and groom that I can finaly really lay it out and trench in !

[gabor]

Why should I prove it's doable on soft gear?

Because not everybody is beginner. Riders, who learned for a week (or a bit less), are able to begin to learn proper carving technique. If I teach them with a slalom board and they are on soft gear, I only insulting them because what I show them is much easier with alpine gear than on soft one. I can show them learning techniques but the whole process is more authentic if I don't cheat.

I agree that beginners don't notice the difference. Teaching them does not need special gear.

[BlueB]

Gabor,

No one even mentioned slalom board. I keep on saying wide board and low angles. I teach on AM board or a wannabe BX board.

Gear choice shouldn't be considered as cheating, either. If I signed up for a lesson in park riding (I could use one as I suck in park) and showed up in h/boots should I be angry with my instructor that he's cheating on me and using soft gear?

Trailertrash,

In essence, all the rest ignored, you are right.

However, my employer asked something that is not (I trust) in line with CASI's requirements, that contradicts labour laws and charter rights. Plus, she asked me as she doesn't know any better.

As I do not need my Sunday job for living, only for fun, I could just as well walk away from it. I would be just as happy teaching skiing or just freeriding around. No one wins in this scenario - snowboard school looses good instructor, alpine looses the chance for revival on our mountain, I loose the chance to do something I feel is right and fun thing to do.

So, I think it's well worth putting up a good fight. So far it wasn't even a fight - just a friendly discussion, which I won, I hope.

[Steve Prokopiw]

trailertrash,if it was just the choice of footwear for it's style I could see that it would be in the same category as grooming standards or not having a dirty uniform (or in the case of some old school softbooters duct tape)etc.But it's not that black and white. I find it ironic that in some the situations I have been in I could run extremely forward angles on softboots and have that be perfectly acceptable even though the function and performance of the boots are nowhere near optimum when doing so.It's all about style;except for the fact that an acceptable haircut or not wearing visible piercings doesn't cause undo pain while performing one's job.

espi,you seem to be under the misconception that all one can or should do in hardboots is be going fast while carving on a race board.BTW thanks for the snopros.

I don't fight for the right to teach in hardboots to be a jackass or a complainer.I do it because it enhances two things I love to do;snowboarding and teaching others how to do it .