tankers made in china

[Guest AllMountain]

i just learned that 06/07 and later tankers are made in china... no longer "handcrafted in germany".

i've communicated privately with RJ from exoticboards.com (tanker dealer) and bob dea, who owns a late model tanker, and they both claim that quality has not suffered.

according to RJ, there was a fire that destroyed the volkl factory in germany during the 05/06 season, and they took the opportunity to move all production to china.

i've scoured the web and found very little info on this. there was some discussion on freecarve.com about design changes in the 06/07 tankers, but it was people riding prototypes or early production during the 05/06 season, so probably still made in germany.

anyway, i have no reason to doubt RJ or bob dea, but i'd have a higher comfort level if there were more good reports. can anyone else out there speak from experience about the made-in-china tankers?

[nils]

since prod cost has decreased by 60% maybe end cost will follow? :)

N

[felix]

Well I haven't heard of any fire at Völkl Germany, though the owner K2 of Völkl would maybe be happy about it in my opinion. Völkl itself is reducing production year after year anyhow. Only the top of the line skis are still produced in Germany.

Really wondering why they don't cut it when at the same time Austrian Manufacturers have no bigger probs (well Kneissl went down, but with their lineup and marketing that was no wonder) producing at decent cost, or considering that Elan Austria is producing about 1/3 of all boards sold worldwide (mostly OEM) and turns out everything from cheapo stuff to great boards such as Goltes or SGS.

[Guest AllMountain]

just to clarify - i was hoping to hear a brief word from anyone who has an 06/07 or 07/08 tanker.

[bobdea]

the quality is just fine, it is as well built as anything out of a huge factory

[svr]

Allmountain, I have owned every tanker 200 made and both the 06/07 maori mask and 07/08 paua mask tankers are great boards. I had early production runs of both models as well and they did not have any flaws and I have +40 days on my 07/08 already and it is a great board.

[D-Sub]

since prod cost has decreased by 60% maybe end cost will follow? :)

N

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: riiiight.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Both the 06-07 and the 07-08 Tankers are sweet! Very light , excellent edge hold and RULE in the pow!! I personally prefer the 08's shape a bit better, however those that like the "pin" or narrower tail shape might want to go with an 06-07. Both are Arimid (sp) core which = light and tight!

The 07-08 has great attention to detail. Die-cut base graphics, gold trim, shell in the top sheet!! You will be pleased. I know this is contrary, there are days I still prefer my 03, it is heavier and blows through the chop like a hot knife through butter (of course there is a 230lb fat boy piloting it.

There are not that many guys that own the 07-08, time to become one of the few!!!

Gallery of the 07-08 , check out the close ups.

[davekempmeister]

How timely a discussion - I just rec'd my 187 (last years model, but new nonetheless) today. I can only attest to it's beauty. I thought, based on pictures, that the topsheet would be blue but was overjoyed to see that it's black. Maybe the blue is so dark I can't tell the difference. Whatever, it looks awesome and I envision that it rides beautifully.

Regarding China, I've learned from past experiences not to reflexively be dismissive of the made in China label. Growing up in a household with parents that looked askance at asian manufactured goods, I carried these prejudices forward into adulthood. Empirical evidence has slowly changed my outlook. Over the years I've purchased numerous goods under the mistaken impression that they were manufactured in the country from which the brand originated (Coach leather goods, Rawlings baseball gloves, Bernina sewing machine, various tools, electronics etc.). I now better understand that the reality is that superior and inferior goods alike are not the monopoly of any one nationality. If a manufacturer moves production to China for any reason, the onus is on them (brand owners) to safeguard the value of the brand and the integrity of the manufacturing process. If they abdicate this key responsibility in negotiations, they do so at the peril of the business.

Exceptions to this exist of course, like clothing brands that are now passe' and are cashing in at the end while on the way out. We've also seen brands that are overnight sensations and have to ramp up production so suddenly that only China has the capacity - and quality fell by the wayside as a result.

Not very scientific, but just looking at this new Tanker of mine, I think it can handle whatever I have to give it. Reassuring though to read the accolades of the learned few that previously posted.

[nils]

my 2cts remark was not on quality...it was on price :) since there has been for sure a BIG gap by moving the prod to china...

Apo and Regis Rolland were pointed out two seasons ago because the prod moved from France to China, but end user prices increased or stayed almost same, when everyone know the prod cost had decreased by 60%....

I find it difficult to understand that the price of a good does not decrease when its prod cost decreases much... it means that price does not reflect always intrinsic quality of a product...and that is a bummer in my old school opinion ;)... marketing world created other ways of putting prices on goods that we have to fight i think...but its a vast off topic subject.

N

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

according to RJ, there was a fire that destroyed the volkl factory in germany during the 05/06 season, and they took the opportunity to move all production to china.

I believe that around the same time K2 bought Volkl which is still partnered with Rad-Air. Something like this?

I too was interested to see what the result of the move would be. The Proto type I have (which is pretty close to "production" in all respects) does not have the days on that my other Tankers have, but it doesn't appear to have suffered in the move. From what the creator tells us, it is nothing but up and onward. Powder Hoe!!

I am just stoked that Harry and Team "Rad-Air" continue to build such a sweet longboard despite the current market. Now with a solid distributor in the USA have real hope of maintaining the pow sticks we need and cherish

Sorry to see the 192cm dropped from the line-up, however, I understand if sacrafices must be made. I MUST have my Tanker 200 first and foremost.

If demand was there, I would love to see a Tanker 213cm with a narrower waist than the 192cm. I am probably in a very small crowd waiting to see that happen. ;)

[Derf]

my 2cts remark was not on quality...it was on price :) since there has been for sure a BIG gap by moving the prod to china...

Apo and Regis Rolland were pointed out two seasons ago because the prod moved from France to China, but end user prices increased or stayed almost same, when everyone know the prod cost had decreased by 60%....

I find it difficult to understand that the price of a good does not decrease when its prod cost decreases much... it means that price does not reflect always intrinsic quality of a product...and that is a bummer in my old school opinion ;)... marketing world created other ways of putting prices on goods that we have to fight i think...but its a vast off topic subject.

N

A company's purpose ususally is to make money, or they would be non-profit organizations. The minimum price is based on production costs, but the real price is based on what the consumer is ready to pay for a product. So everything above the minimum price mentioned previously is pure profit, and companies want that. I could go on, but you get my point.

Edit: Don't forget the shipping costs from China to the distributor that has to be added to the production cost.

[Spiny Norman]

Her's a fun fact about China:

The peasants and the children of the peasants flocki to work in the factories of southern China are not allowed to go to the schools or get other social services there. China has strict rules on internal migration. So you may be able to sneak down and work under the table but don't expect better for your kids.

Not to mention the small issue of Tibet, Tiannamen, and the THREE Gorges dam.

But hey, what do we care. The boards are pretty and hold an edge.

Enjoy, Spencer

[nuejam]

Yea, I'm not concerned about the quality of the boards so much as the labour practices in use at whatever factory the boards are produced...

Derf mentioned 'market price,' but paying attention to just the 'market price' at the expense of the human price, the environmental price, and the social price seems incredibly shortsighted.

It's unfortunate that in pursuit of a zen-like effacement of self into nature we go riding around on boards that have the detestable capital ghost within their core. : /

[D-Sub]

It's unfortunate that in pursuit of a zen-like effacement of self into nature we go riding around on boards that have the detestable capital ghost within their core. : /

LMFAO, and most of us ride fossile fuel-powered chairlifts, too :)

[cliffh]

so what do the employees that worked in the original factory feel about the move? what are they doing today? do the Chinese take the same pride in their workmanship that they did in Germany? Do they even know what a snowboard is? f globalization and f walmart. It may be as good a board as they built in Germany but personally I would never knowingly choose a Chinese deck over a European or N. American manufactured deck. The whole thing just makes me sick.

[bobdea]

I did not know where it was made until I saw that little gold sticker.

for me it does make a big difference in that I'd avoid chinese made boards if possible.

Other than my two tankers the last six or seven boards I've had have been from the great white north

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[refried]

I'm a little disapointed. I'm sure the new Tankers are just as good as the older ones, but I have found anything made in China usually is not as well made or use the same quality materials.I don't see any differance in the quality of my '03 and '07 exept that the topsheet of the '07 is kind of lumpy showing where each piece of wood is joined.

Maybe I should check it for lead content

[svr]

Bob, that was hilarious...

[Fat Old Bastard]

I can't comment on the made in China Tankers because so far I have not been lucky enough to own one. (My only Tanker was an older one).

But what I would like to comment on is Rad-Air. In my experience they are a good company run by very good people. I count Harry Gunz as a friend and know him to be one of the most fanatical (in a good way) snowboarders I have ever met. He is a dedicated and highly skilled Tanker rider and I cannot for a moment imagine that he would ever allow the quality of the Tankers to decline.

I ask you "What would Harry ride if the new Tankers were no good ?"

Aussie Mick

P.S. I still know that the day that I rode with Harry was the day that I realized how much I didn't know about how to ride

[Spiny Norman]

How Timely, from todays BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7042660.stm

I've no doubt Chinese workers can produce quality. But every item bought sends a percentage to the People's Liberation Army.

- Spencer

[BlueB]

I've no doubt Chinese workers can produce quality. But every item bought sends a percentage to the People's Liberation Army.

And so does every US made item to US Army/Navy. What's wrong with that?

I'm sick of hypocrits rattling about low vages, vork conditions, polution, etc, etc in China. Let's face it - it's called capitalism and US is the biggest proponent of it, as well as it is US capital that spinned Chinese industry. As for the polution, it is US, too, who wouldn't sign Kyoto protocol along with Russia, India and China. When China used to run purely communist type of economy US cried "bloody communists", now when they run capitlist model US is very quick to forget own capitalist roots. Those "exploited" workers in China are very happy to have those jobs and probably make way more then their relatives back in villages.

So stop criticising China, rather criticize companies and governments alowing relocation of industries to China. But it's probably too late anyhow, and within 50 years China will be standing as the only real super power.

In the mean time, enjoy your Chinese Tankers if they came out any cheaper, as I doubted they would be any worse.

Boris

[Spiny Norman]

As far as I know the US Army does not have a direct interest in almost all manufacturing as the PLA does.

Capitalism can help countries when there is the rule of law and a chance for the citizens to vote on the issues.

So, no standards at all? Slavery is fine. Child labor is fine?

Where you spend your money matters.

- Spencer

[BlueB]

As far as I know the US Army does not have a direct interest in almost all manufacturing as the PLA does.

It doesn't need to. Great portion of tax money of every militarised country goes towards its army.

Capitalism can help countries when there is the rule of law and a chance for the citizens to vote on the issues.

Capitalism is primarily designed to help individuals. Voting is a function of democracy which has nothing to do with capitalism.

So, no standards at all? Slavery is fine. Child labor is fine?

What slavery? Unlike US, China never had institutionalised slavery. Child labor is fine if it means food and better living for those children. At the end of the day, children are alowed to work in the western countries.

China is going through the early stages of capitalism that all western countries went through 100-300 years ago. Hopefully it would catch up quicker then that. Social security, worker protection, syndicates, care for the environment, care for children, those are all functions of socialism, which is supposed to be higher evolved economical model. Capitalism, when the conciousness of society prevails over greed of individuals, is suposed to evolve into socialism. Just as well as socialism is suposed to evolve into communism when the level of population's conciousnes is right. Trouble of the communism of the past is that it came few hundred years too early and as revolution instead of evolution. Even then it was served to Russia and China to slow down their developmnent that threatened the western powers of early 20th century. But that's another topic...

Where you spend your money matters.

Of course it does. And I'm not saying that China is right in all of its practices. What I'm saying is that West is afraid of the awakened dragon and most of the outcry is engineered and served to people who refuse or can not see that China is doing nothing different to what most of western countries did at some stage or still do now.

Paradox is that more money you spend on Chineese products, quicker will Chinees people experience the well being that you are concerned about...

Boris

[SEJ]

The bottom line is you have a 5000 year old warrior nation that is now a communist country that understands how to use capitalism to there benefit. (Even though it doesn't fit in the communist mantra) Understand there is no free market there. The government owns everything. (Did I mention Communist!) They are beating us at our own game because there is no thoughts of human rights in that country. The Chinese people are not an issue, their government is! There is no way anybody in the free world can compete against slave labor. Keep buying Chinese, and they WILL rule the world. Hell, try to buy something that isn't, and you will know how close they are!