Impact! Hit from behind.

[Dave ESPI]

I got twisted up with another instructor on Left bank at Jiminy just before where the trails converge in the chute and hang a hard left. He was infront of me zig zagging l,r,l,r,l,r, then just stayed right when I was attempting to pass on his left, and for reasons unknown to me, he cut hard left, and went infront of me to the point that my board wedged inbetween his feet and I had no way of stopping or turning , or controlling it, so I just grabbed his jacket and laid us down....... well cept he jammed his toeside edge in, and catauilted me up and over him doing an endo into a full 360 arial and then landing on my back on a botched "rodeo" manouver of sorts, and I slid about 15 feet. He had teh wind knocked out of him, and I was fine. All I could say was " Dude what the hell was that ?" and " Are you ok ? sorry man.... We got tied up back there".

He was kinda sullen about it, but he got up and boarded on. I had a skipatroler and another instructor behind us both and I asked them what happened.. and they said he cut my line, and even though the person in from of me has right of way, he was at fault for cutting off my line and not looking uphill for a sharp side cut across trail.

[Gtanner]

of difference if you collect a kid, or someone who can barely stand up. Like oldvolvos, if I hear edges above me, I'll pull out of the carve and go into preservation mode.

...

Not to open another can of worms here, but I also do the pull up of you hear anyone uphill of you...yet another reason not to listen to tunes while you ride.

-Gord

[Steve Prokopiw]

On our relatively tight mountain I have been finding more and more that some people resent what I am doing and will literally take their lives into their hands to make their points, by skiing quite purposefully into my line at which point I usually pull out and say "excuse me "in the most self accusing, polite way possible. Then ,when they stop part way down the slope to rest,I gleefully dig deep trenches as I pass by.

Some, particularly boarders, are seemingly just ignorant as to what might happen if they obliviously sideslip through my predictable turns. But, with the others I have actually started to wonder if they will try to get EC banned as the think the mountain is their's alone.I actually confine most of my carving to a slope or two that are not used until near the end of the day by the sun seekers. The real irony is that they are now much more accepting of the sideslipping jib bonkers who they accuse of scraping the snow off the mountain than they are of carving.

[Przemek/Brooklyn]

I had been riding since 95 and never had anybody hit me from above. Last year I had small collision with one skier we kind of met when I was in the middle of heel side turn, so nobody was really “higher” I guess I failed to observe my left side. I was not sure whose blame it was so I went and apologies. Guy said it mean a lot to him that I apologized.

<O:p

Anyway I always wait for the window in the crowd, no meter how crowded it is there is always a gap (I ski Killington so it can be crowded) <O:p</O:p

I try to avoid crowded blue runs and rather go to icier black. I go as fast as I can so even if I carve (double my way down) my fall line speed is higher then average skier.

There are less straight liners and people generally going slower on groomed black.

Still I had few close calls now and then.

I never look up when I carve I can not afford to lose focus; always look up before I start.<O:p

[Dan]

Has anyone ever gotten a reckless skier/rider's ticket pulled? If so, how did you go about it?

For truly flagrant and life-threatening stupidity, it's either that or putting to practice some moves from the Kipstar/D-sub school of conflict resolution (aka kick boxing, mixed martial arts).

I haven't been in any serious collisions yet, but it's only a matter of time. It doesn't help that when you wait at the top of the run for a window, some sideslipper/gaper inevitably skids up and then starts down the run at a crawl, ignoring the fact that you're obviously <i>watching the run, waiting for it to clear</i>.

Grr. When I win the lottery, I'll buy Ski Bowl and make it alpine-gear only.

[tripine]

We all screw up sometimes, but bottom line is to cover your butt... If I get hit and hurt it doesn't matter who was at fault.

[bjordnolf]

Last week at Keystone Before I started nobody was coming down the hill at all after 4 or 5 turns Im going in a pretty fast toeside carve and just slam into this skier from the side. He was obviously straightlining the run. I told him that he shouldve been watching me and that I was the downhill rider. He then tells me that he was watching me the whole time and that he has been skiing for years and is very responsible. Wanker

[skidad62]

How bout this for a photo sequence of a near miss... 3:45 pm in the fading Sugarloaf light... coulda nailed a twofer...

Settin up a toeside... all is well...

Crappin in my pants as I spot a collision comin and start to try & drive uphill and pull out of my carve ...

Two inbound targets at 12 oclock dead ahead... small target has just now recognized the missle approaching from the west...

Still fightin to change my arc to drive uphill & avoid them quik...

Whew... no deaths... hard to tell who's pointing up vs down in this pic...

[powell1.8]

It doesn't help that when you wait at the top of the run for a window, some sideslipper/gaper inevitably skids up and then starts down the run at a crawl, ignoring the fact that you're obviously watching the run, waiting for it to clear.

/QUOTE]

This is seriously agravating at times. What do these people think we are waiting for? I think most people learn how to take turns in preschool or before. The scary part is that if they are this oblivious to someone standing still, think of their ability to see someone moving at high speed.

[kipstar]

how do you live!!!??!?!?

extremely good question.

the rampant number of broken hearts, trail of used condoms and extensively sailed sport boat and windsurfer fail to fill the void :-)

[bjvircks]

What do these people think we are waiting for?

Quite frankly, it could be any number of things. Remember... most skiers and boarders are not waiting for the entire run to clear out as we might.

They may think we are resting, waiting for a friend to arrive, feeling if our boots need adjustment or watching the weather to see how the day will play out. Maybe just standing there thinking "God, what a great day". These people CANNOT read our minds. We do not have large cartoon thought bubbles floating over our heads that indicate "waiting for the slope to be absolutely empty"

[pebu]

Right, I was gonna say most of them are used to having a group waiting at the top of the terrain park waiting for the next guy to go.. I hate that. When I want to go into the terrain park I scan over everybody and see if any of them are about to go. Most of them are just sitting there, so I blast right by them. Run could be totally empty and they'll all be sittin there cause they don't want people to see or whatever. Totally different on a non-terrain park run.

[philw]

As far as people waiting are concerned... well you see a lot of them. I assume maybe they're not fit enough to ride the whole slope in one shot or something, oe perhaps they're waiting for their mates? In the alps you'll get a crowd at the top of any decent moguls. I just ride straight by generally, watching for people starting out from the group as they do that without looking.

An interesting thread. But the bottom line is that I don't really rely on anybody's rules to protect me, or any ski patroller pass-pulling tricks. There are idiots about, and even some of us make mistakes sometimes. So deal with it..

I think riding reasonably quickly is a good start; then the hazards are mostly in front of you. I don't lay down big carves on small or crowded slopes: those are places where it's ore fun putting in short swings.

I absolutely don't rely on my ears, any more than I do when cycling, walking or driving. The eyes have it I'm afraid - you have to know where you are and what's happening around you. I think iPods should be mandatory, as at least if you're using those you *know* you have to look where you're going (I make no noise which cycling at 30mph or riding at the same speed).

I've not had collisions, but I do take a lot of care. I have had times like someone described above when you catch someone up but you can't figure out which way to pass, and (skier or boarder) they're unaware you're there (presumably listening not looking..). They gradually drift towards the side of the piste, half the time on the side you've decided to overtake. You gradually get into a worse position as they close down your options. The trick, once you're in this position, is to stop whilst you still have time.

[Jrobb]

I absolutely don't rely on my ears, any more than I do when cycling, walking or driving. The eyes have it I'm afraid - you have to know where you are and what's happening around you. I think iPods should be mandatory, as at least if you're using those you *know* you have to look where you're going (I make no noise which cycling at 30mph or riding at the same speed).

I've not had collisions, but I do take a lot of care. I have had times like someone described above when you catch someone up but you can't figure out which way to pass, and (skier or boarder) they're unaware you're there (presumably listening not looking..). They gradually drift towards the side of the piste, half the time on the side you've decided to overtake. You gradually get into a worse position as they close down your options. The trick, once you're in this position, is to stop whilst you still have time.

Can't agree more. Last weekend I was riding with the tunes on (just loud enough to still have conversation and hear (skidd skidd). Well did that for half the day then rode with my bud for the rest of the day without tunes since I was giving him pointers. Later on I was carving up some flats before a steep pitch and upon transition from heel side to toeside this guy suddenly appears 1ft away from me as I'm now on toeside. He glanced at me non chalantly but it startled me none the less. I had no tunes on and figured, I could hear him. Guess what I couldn't and we wer both clipping around 25-30 (I had GPS on at time). After that I woke up.

When overtaking especially on flat traverses I use cycling ettiquitte (ON you left, On yOur right, or whatever) usually it startles people but most appreciate it rather than squeezing past quickly. shouting this about 10 yds away has done wonders...but little kids tend to gravitate towards me when I do that as they turn to the side i say as they turn their head.

J

[pebu]

I think iPods should be mandatory,

I disagree with THAT whole-heartedly. Yeah, you gotta keep your eyes open as the ears are not faultproof, but at the same time, you gotta keep your ears open as your eyes are not faultproof. You gotta have all your senses about you in those cases.

And I know not everybody makes noises all the time, but if you learn all those subtle nuances you'll get pretty good at hearing things. Even if its the lack of noise that was once behind you.. Is there something blocking the sound of those kids screaming? Did somebody go from turning to straightlining? etc..

[Derf]

I think iPods should be mandatory, as at least if you're using those you *know* you have to look where you're going (I make no noise which cycling at 30mph or riding at the same speed).

Sorry, but this is one of the worst thing I have read here. All senses are essential, period. You can't see 360°, but you can hear 360°.

When cycling, it's 50% sight and 50% earring. I could never bike with a portable music player, it would feel half blind. Hearing is not about big noises, it's about subtle ones. It's like people saying you can't hear an electric car: you can because of the tires, even at low speeds.

[Steve Prokopiw]

Quite frankly, it could be any number of things. Remember... most skiers and boarders are not waiting for the entire run to clear out as we might.

They may think we are resting, waiting for a friend to arrive, feeling if our boots need adjustment or watching the weather to see how the day will play out. Maybe just standing there thinking "God, what a great day". These people CANNOT read our minds. We do not have large cartoon thought bubbles floating over our heads that indicate "waiting for the slope to be absolutely empty"

I have been thinking that we could, in fact, ride around with helium balloons tied to us that say exactly that or any other thing,like "If you can read this your too fu##ing close!"

[Gleb]

extremely good question.

the rampant number of broken hearts, trail of used condoms and extensively sailed sport boat and windsurfer fail to fill the void :-)

its a start i guess.

[powell1.8]

They may think we are resting, waiting for a friend to arrive, feeling if our boots need adjustment or watching the weather to see how the day will play out. Maybe just standing there thinking "God, what a great day". These people CANNOT read our minds. We do not have large cartoon thought bubbles floating over our heads that indicate "waiting for the slope to be absolutely empty"

I think I make it obvious what I am waiting for, but I guess even the best of us can be oblivious to what going on around us. I can be very patient, so I got that going for me, which is nice.

I like the balloon idea. It's kinda like "Here's your sign."

[Fastskiguy]

I'm sorry to hear about all of these collisions, glad nobody has died (yet!), but it's scary...at least for this nearly 40 year old.

Alpine snowboarders are a hazard, there is no doubt. The path down the hill is so different than other users, they aren't stupid, just ignorant. And we speed up in the fall line, then hook it until we are perpendicular to the fall line (well, sometimes), our speed down the hill varies a lot. It's confusing to others. Now there are rules about who has the right of way but even if people know the rules, most have never seen anybody doing what we are doing. Even riding with other alpine snowboarders can be dangerous!

I think it boils down to riding defensively, *really* looking out for people who don't know what we are doing (pretty much everybody), trying to stay out of the busy areas. It is just amazing how much faster a straight liner can go downhill and if you get nailed it probably won't matter that it was his fault, it's still your injury, your damaged stuff.

I like to say I have an agreement when I (bike) ride on a road with union dump trucks. They come up behind me, I hit the shoulder, they don't kill me. Sometimes it's not about being right. Be as safe as you can be out there :)

[Steve Prokopiw]

When I lived in Colorado and rode the incredibly dangerous,shoulderless roads of Colorado on my roadbike I often wore a stars and stripes jersey because it dawned on me that no self respectin,gravel truck drivin, gun rackin,chew spittin,spandex hatin redneck was gonna run the flag off the road. By God it worked! Much more often than not I was given a wide berth.

What's this got to do with this thread or riding on a ski hill ? Well you'd have to be at the mountain I ride to understand fully, but I'm thinking of wearing a stars and stripes vest on the hill to test out my theory tommorrow.

[powell1.8]

The other day I was riding up the lift with a skier, and I got the usual questions. We talked about carving the whole way up the lift. I even explained how it seems inconceivable, to skiers and snowboarders alike, that we are going so fast across the fallline. I explain that we use most of the run and that we are always looking for a whole in the trafic to make our runs, for safety. I told him I felt like a surfer at times waiting for the perfect wave.

Here's the clincher, and evidence as to the oblivious nature of some people on the hill. I start my run, I'm about halfway down the hill, and out of the corner of my eye here comes this guy right up my a$$. He nearly takes me out. The look on his face was priceless. If there was ever a case for I told you so, this was it.

I don't want to get to down on anyone, we all make mistakes. I'm no saint, but at least I try to be aware of what going on around me, which some people can't or don't do. In their defence, I don't think I would be to aware of anybody either if I was going mach 10 and I was completely out of control. I would be a in self preservation mode 100%.

[BobD]

A couple of post that seem to say that you should be responsible for checking whether people are try to pass you. Sound like the defence of every one of those skiers/boarders that are hitting us from behind.

The bottom line is that until everyone on the hill carves and understands the safety issues involved, we will have a problem. I think it is possible that in a few years times when more skiers are carving, the collision risk will become a major safety issue and people will become more aware. I have seen so many collisions involving carving skiers (a lot of them do at my local hill), it is frightening to envisage a busy hill where they all are carving.

My record for being hit from behind - twice in about 40 minutes. A youth ski race was on the next run and the kids were taking practice runs on my run.

BobD

[jnshapiro]

The closest I've come to getting whacked was by another snowboarder. 2 different incidents, 2 different people.

The first one, I was happily carving turns down an empty run and someone popped out of the trees and nearly took me out. Apparently there was a kicker and a couple of jibbers were stacked up to hit it, from in the woods!

The other time was also an empty run. I try to take a look at the beginning of each turn. At the beginning of the toeside, it was clear above. As I turned down into the fall line I was clipped from behind by a straightlining snowboarder. They sure come up fast!

[Fastskiguy]

When I lived in Colorado and rode the incredibly dangerous,shoulderless roads of Colorado on my roadbike I often wore a stars and stripes jersey because it dawned on me that no self respectin,gravel truck drivin, gun rackin,chew spittin,spandex hatin redneck was gonna run the flag off the road. By God it worked! Much more often than not I was given a wide berth.

What's this got to do with this thread or riding on a ski hill ? Well you'd have to be at the mountain I ride to understand fully, but I'm thinking of wearing a stars and stripes vest on the hill to test out my theory tommorrow.

Man, I've got a stars and stripes jersey that I never wear, I'm gonna have to bust it out in the spring and give it a try. thanks for the tip :)