MUD Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Ok, Seriously, all this talk of stiff gear, board isolation (the plate thing), and riding technique has got me thinking. I am an old freestyle/freerider, I actually carve on my freestyle board (unlike some). On my FS board I ride VERY flexible boots, this leads me to tend to want to ride my hard boots in the walk position and with the cant setting loose. If I stiffen things up I tend not to like it. I only freecarve (no racing anymore) so it is not like I am looking for a race setup. I will be in the market for new gear in the next year, is it just that my boots are old (they are) and the new ones are more "lively" or am I just looking for something else. I like to ride relaxed angles and have 12.5 feet, so no ATV from me...... I am starting to lean toward a nice Donek Sasquach/ Catek freerides and be done with it........ Let the opinions begin!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I missed all the fun being on the hill this weekend, by the sounds of it. If you're really nervous, then pick up a pair of used boots, and see if you can hook up with someone and borrow a board. Plenty of people here would be happy to help you out, and if you meet up with someone they can give you a few pointers on the riding technique. When you're starting out it's all very, very different and it's pretty easy to get discouraged and pack it in. Which, when you've spent a bomb on gear, is pretty depressing. If you're just looking to cruise, why not try a BX board to start? Then, if you really don't like the hard boot thing, you can always ride it happily in softies. I'm thinking Palmer Channel Titanium, F2 Speedcross, one of the Volkl Cross's that was listed on here. Something that will hold a carve without being too far left of centre. Play with cranking the angles forward. Then, if you like the feedback you're getting, go to a narrower board. New gear? I spent the first day on new Track 325's this weekend. They feel exactly the same as my old Raichle 223's. Just a s***load more expensive (and a nicer colour ) I dunno when everyone started getting so serious. Come ride with me sometime, I'll teach you how to crash a raceboard. Should be fun. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedzilla Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Doug, next time you are back in MN, you'll have to try my Prior 4WD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Sorry, I little background. I have been riding about 23 years, have had an alpine setup for about 10. Competed in all disciplines for about 7-8 years (had to to get sponsored in MN). My current alpine ride is a Donek 179FCII 05' vintage, Burton reactor boots and Catek World cup bindings........ I am just starting to wonder...... Why bother? I guess if I have to ask I just don't understand, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Doug, next time you are back in MN, you'll have to try my Prior 4WD. Hey, Dave I think my feet are a little to big for the angles I would like to ride...... it's only 1 inch wider waist than my FCII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I guess the main reason I ask is. I ride a freestyle board, Telemark and an alpine setup. THE only setup I am NEVER quite happy with is the alpine setup, all the others I can just go out and ride, I even feel bad when I have to replace stuff. I keep messing with it but never get it right (and I am not that picky), am I just looking for something that is not there to begin with? Maybe I am just stuck in a no snow zone and am pissed about it, I don't know. Maybe I have changed to many diapers today (no, not mine:D).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I have size 11.5 feet, and I just found a good bootfitter to stuff my sasquach feet into some decent sized shells. That's all it takes. As far as never being happy on the alpine board, try what I said in the other thread you started. Start your setup off with absolutley nothing but the essentials: no overhang (or some overhang with lift), and flat bindings front and back. Then fiddle from there. I just had to do the same thing actually, I had switched boards so many times that I totally lost my settings and couldn't get comfortable on the board. So I went to flat bindings, and I'll be working with it from there the first few times I go out. On the other hand, it might just not be for you. I sugguest giving what I'm doing a shot, and go from there before you give up completley. And hey, we have alot less snow than you do (after last week anyway) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Doug, I was a lot happier when I went from ONLY alpine setups basically the same as yours to softer bindings (F2 Proflex) and wider boards that let me ride in the 48-53 degree range. You might like it too. I also ride in the unlocked position, as unpopular and dangerous as it is . BTS etc. would probably be better than unlocked. But I only liked the narrow/hard/high angle setup on perfect days, and only for carving. I got kind of tired of it after a while. I might go back to the narrow/stiff setups sometime, but right now I'm having a lot of fun riding this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 As far as never being happy on the alpine board, try what I said in the other thread you started. Start your setup off with absolutley nothing but the essentials: no overhang (or some overhang with lift), and flat bindings front and back. Then fiddle from there. That might work, but I'd be very surprised if you ended up liking riding flat on both feet. The forward lean in your boots (even at the least setting) will make it not very comfy. I'd recommend starting from a equal toe lift/heel lift postion as the default. This poll indicates two thirds of respondants use some form of toe lift on the front foot, and over 87% use some form of heel lift on the back foot. Hardboots may simply not be for you, but you can't say for sure until you've at least tried moldable liners. Ideally you should try custom footbeds (orthotics) too. Liners are great by themselves and the combination is a dream come true. Even if you still don't like hardboots after that, the money wouldn't be wasted as you could use the footbeds in your softboots, and the liners in your ski boots (if you ski, if not you can sell them if you haven't molded them too many times). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 MUD, I almost always take my Incline with me as well as my Swoard. I almost never take an alpine board alone to the hill, but when I take only the Incline I almost always miss the alpine board. My setup on both is with modified 224's with springs (homemade sprung RAB) and cut tongues riding flat on intec Cateks. I find the soft HB's are just a tad stiffer fore/aft than my Malamutes but way stiffer side to side. I started carving with clickers on an E-deck which was the all mountain board Burton produced about when you started in alpine. I think Jack's point about cant/lift applies to when you're riding with stiffer boots IMO so you might take that into account. I guess my point is MAYBE you should try a relatively softer HB setup with a wider carve board like a Swoard, Donek G-force, or the Coiler EC, it gives the dynamic freedom that I have on my FR setup but I can carve way better than on the incline. I never really got into the skinny board/stiff boot setup because it just felt too confining and specialized. I'm sure if I had more days on the snow every year I could make that commitment but I love the wide carver/soft HB setup and just wanted to convey my experiences. Good luck in your search... Kelvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Get a custom! a nice wide custom board designed for your ginormous feet. Now doesnt that sound way cooler than giving up? Donek, Coiler, Virus, Pogo, and possibly other boardmakers that im not sure of could probably help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 EXCELLENT IDEAS!!!!! Keep em' coming.......... Sorry to dis the 4WD Dave, I'll give it shot...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 My boots are Raichle 324s. I ride in "walk" mode and I even have the cant screws loosened to allow some side to side movement. Still, when I get into my soft boots, I feel disconnected from my board. Too much slop. It's not about flex, more about responsiveness. I think there is a difference. Your setup doesn't have to be stiff to be responsive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I've never ridden angles over 45, and I use Raichle 224s, which are pretty soft. I take this setup all over the mountain. So maybe a wide-waisted softer board like an ATV can work well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishrising Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 size 11.5 feet...sasquach feet... That's pretty funny! I wish I had size 11.5 feet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 That's pretty funny! I wish I had size 11.5 feet! I feel for ya, mine are really 13's I can usually fit in 12.5's if they have them though....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Hardboots may simply not be for you, but you can't say for sure until you've at least tried moldable liners. Ideally you should try custom footbeds (orthotics) too. Liners are great by themselves and the combination is a dream come true. Even if you still don't like hardboots after that, the money wouldn't be wasted as you could use the footbeds in your softboots, and the liners in your ski boots (if you ski, if not you can sell them if you haven't molded them too many times). That is a good idea Jack, I can use them in my tele boots if hardboots don't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 That's pretty funny! I wish I had size 11.5 feet! Hey fishrising what are the boards in your quivavatar? I know the one on the left is the Rossi Throttle, looks like a 166?? What about the rest? Got pix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Hey fishrising what are the boards in your quivavatar?I know the one on the left is the Rossi Throttle, looks like a 166?? What about the rest? Got pix? not to steal his thunder, but: Rossi Throttle 173, HeavyTools Lizard 173, Rad-Air Tanker O/S 187, Donek 186 GS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 That's pretty funny! I wish I had size 11.5 feet! Me too! Oh wait...I do. 11.5 is hit or miss though. Sometimes 12, sometimes 11, one time 10.5. Once you get over 11 you start having problems anyway. More problems the bigger, but problems finding appropriate footwear nonetheless. Throw some lift under those bindings and relish in your big, stable platforms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishrising Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 not to steal his thunder, but:Rossi Throttle 173, HeavyTools Lizard 173, Rad-Air Tanker O/S 187, Donek 186 GS The Rossi is now Jack Michaud's, and I have a brand spankin new Donek Olympic Core Oppenheimer 179 FC to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Maybe you're just into softbooting. Not that there's anything wrong with that, heck some of my best friends are softbooters. Some people say it's a choice, some people say they were just born different. I say be proud of who you are, and don't try to conform to anyone else's expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 But seriously though... Hard boots, high angles, and narrow boards work best as a package deal. I rode hard boots and low angles on a freeride board for years and liked it, but when I started going with higher angles and narrower boards I liked it even more. And when I got into the groove with hardbooting technique - rather than my familiar softboot technique in hard boots - I liked it even more. So my advice to you would be to try going fully alpine before you give up on the hard boot idea. Go for at least 55/50 angles, which means a waist of at most 23cm (consider 21cm). Aim your shoulders forward. Hold your 'rear' hand over the nose of the board when you're carving heelside. Face straight down the hill when you're riding moguls. Try to think of it as a new technique - not just snowboarding with different boots, but something as different from snowboarding as tele is from regular skiing. Adapt your style to suit the gear, then decide if you like it or not. I ride with Raichle 324s, locked in position 4, and I feel the flex is OK for moguls and jumps and whatnot. You wouldn't be the first person to choose to ride with the levers in walk mode though. I did myself for a while, though with the twisty thing in the position that gives firm support against my calves, like a highback binding. Been thinking about getting the BTS things, haven't really decided yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfinsmiley Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 With 30cm feet I`ve had the same thoughts, but now with the popularity of wider Alpine rigs which are a whole lot more versatile, I`m looking at it very differently. Get a wider rig and I`m pretty sure you`ll be happy with the sort of feelings it will inspire with-in you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 The Rossi is now Jack Michaud's, and I have a brand spankin new Donek Olympic Core Oppenheimer 179 FC to replace it. Actually on Christmas it will become my brother-in-law's. One day, we shall carve figure-8s. Oh yes. We shall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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