D.T. Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I want a swallowtail! Something over 180cm (yes, I know this eliminates the 4807) with a relatively large scr (10.5m+). What have you ridden? What were your impressions? I weigh ~210lbs and want something bigger; Undertaker, Powder Gun, Winterstick... I bought my 182cm Tanker as a powder board and have adapter to using it for everything I do in soft boots (bumps, tight trees, steeps, and back country). I understand that a longer board will be more difficult to turn in the trees; if I plan on tight trees I will take my Tanker. Since the board will only see slight to moderate use, I cannot justify the price of the euro swallowtails (Boheme, Pogo, Swellpanik and the like...) What are your opinions??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Personally, I think sidecut numbers are highly overated on swallowtails. This is something you will almost exclusivly use in deep powder. Nose shape, taper, tail cutout, stance width options all weigh in as higher priorities than sidecut radius. All the longer swallows will have bigger sidecut numbers anyway. Now, I will qualify this statement by saying I've only got two days on swallowtails, one on my Nitro 178 and one on a Voile 178 split. Was able to ride both at mach speeds in deep pow (4+ft.) and felt perfectly stable. Now, I just got a Nitro 188 with a lot of taper, I can't wait to ride it so I can compare the different build details. Then I will know if I need (!?) a 200 Tanker! P.S. a lot of guys bigger than my 160 lbs ride the Voile 178 in deep stuff and are perfectly happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 stop kidding yourself, Jon - you need the tanker haven't ridden many modern swallowtails - but I got a little time on an undertaker last year and it was great. I rode an old winterstick a few years back (really old - like early '80s) in 3 feet of fresh and had a blast on it. JD is right - sidecut doesn't mean a thing on these - you don't want to ride them on the groomed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Everyone needs a 2m Tanker, if only just to get the liftline reactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 What have you ridden? What were your impressions? What are your opinions??? I purchased a Prior Powstick last year, it's the only ST I've ridden and I think it rocks. I cannot compare it to other ST's, but the board was soft, floaty, and even in deep snow the nose never went under. It was by far the most "surfy" feeling I ever got riding. In terms of length and trees, I rode it through trees at Wolf Creek last season. They're medium-tightness, but the 183 powstick turned very nicely and quickly. Chris Prior says that it rides like a 173. Some more info and pictures can be found on my web site: my review: http://www.slackerdom.com/2006/03_prior_powstick/index.html and field notes: http://www.slackerdom.com/2006/04_wolf_powstick/index.html Hope this helps, tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Pogo, Swellpanik, Miura, and Boheme also make swallowtails (with really cool wooden topsheets). http://www.swallowtails.org/ has some good info and links to swallowtail providers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Pogo, Swellpanik, Miura, and Boheme also make swallowtails (with really cool wooden topsheets). http://www.swallowtails.org/ has some good info and links to swallowtail providers. I think he decided they are too expensive for him. I cannot justify the price of the euro swallowtails (Boheme, Pogo, Swellpanik and the like...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I'm kinda currious about the Rossignol Undertaker and how it performs as a carving board and as a powder board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Thanks for the replys! Everyone needs a 2m Tanker, if only just to get the liftline reactions. I would consider a duce, but have not seen any used around lately. No offense to RJ, but I would prefer not to pay $599. Then again, $599 for a duce is a lot less than I would pay for a new ST. I purchased a Prior Powstick last year, it's the only ST I've ridden and I think it rocks. I cannot compare it to other ST's, but the board was soft, floaty, and even in deep snow the nose never went under. It was by far the most "surfy" feeling I ever got riding. I have seen your review Tom. How much do you weigh? My concern with the Powstick is at only 181cm, I question if it would float that much differently than my 182cm Tanker. Yeah, yeah... I know... the bindings are set back on the ST and the tail will sink more than a traditional board, but... like I said, I want a big board (yes, I do have little man's syndrome) -------------------Hush big mario, I do not want to hear it. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I'm kinda currious about the Rossignol Undertaker and how it performs as a carving board and as a powder board. Agreed, I would like input on the Undertanker and Powder Gun if anyone has some????? PS - I would prefer to stick with a board that has been around for awhile so that there will be some used boards available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 DT or anyone else: I've got a used Undertaker 198cm in good condition for $250 plus shipping. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have seen your review Tom. How much do you weigh? My concern with the Powstick is at only 181cm, I question if it would float that much differently than my 182cm Tanker. I'm in the 205-210 lb range. Haven't ridden the Tanker so I cannot compare... I guess the closest board to the Tanker that I rode is a custom Donek 180 (i.e. this one, see how close), and the ride is markedly different. Anyways, I can't say that this is better than other ST boards or make any other comparisons of the sort -- I can only say that I enjoyed the Powstick a lot and that for powder it outperformed anything else I've ridden :) tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 DT or anyone else:I've got a used Undertaker 185cm in good condition for $250 plus shipping. Mark Thanks, will consider. BTW, how does it ride???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Imagine running through a set of your favorite corners in a Subaru Imprezza, then doing the same in a 65 Ford pickup..... that is what the difference will be like, you can do it, but it ain't the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Imagine running through a set of your favorite corners in a Subaru Imprezza, then doing the same in a 65 Ford pickup..... that is what the difference will be like, you can do it, but it ain't the same! huh?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 i think he might be referring to the undertaker and how it performs as a carving board. The board looks like it can carve, but that swallow tail tells you that it was definitely designed for powder. so, i guess the board isn't very good for carving according to his own experience with it... how is it in powder though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 DT: The Undertaker 198 rides LONG and needs room to move . It performs well in fresh powder on moderate to steep runs. The nose bounces around on groomers and it's a ski magnet in the liftline. I've found that having access to powder dumps on weekdays and doing powder laps faster than everyone else is where the Undertaker shines. It does well in crud. I've never used it on ice. It took me a while to dial it in for the way I ride. I ended up moving the bindings as far forward as I could and the board trimmed out and rode more stable. Your experience may vary. You could use softboots on the Undertaker and everything would become easier than what I have described. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 I have a 25th anniversary Winterstick 185cm, and although I've used it only 15 times in the past ten years, each of those times has been MAGIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 I've got a used Undertaker 198cm in good condition for $250 plus shipping. 198??? Yes, I am interested! Thanks for the edit. The Undertaker 198 rides LONG and needs room to move . It performs well in fresh powder on moderate to steep runs. The nose bounces around on groomers and it's a ski magnet in the liftline. I've found that having access to powder dumps on weekdays and doing powder laps faster than everyone else is where the Undertaker shines. It does well in crud. I've never used it on ice. It took me a while to dial it in for the way I ride. I ended up moving the bindings as far forward as I could and the board trimmed out and rode more stable. Your experience may vary.You could use softboots on the Undertaker and everything would become easier than what I have described. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear! I want a powder only board! I'll send you an e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refried Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 I have 4 swallowtails that I ride with softboots, don't have a favorite because they all ride a little different, But they all get lots of attention. I weigh about 210, and mostly ride the heavy wet snow of the northwest. Going to pick up a 200 Tanker Maori this year, Hopefully we'll another good year in WA. so it can get some use. Winterstick Swallowtail 185, A great Powder board, Floats on top of everything, feels strange riding it on groomers back to the lifts. Always get lots of questions and comments about riding an antique board (it's a 2005). Not a lot of days this board can be ridden, likes deep soft powder, not fast,but a fun ride. Rossi Undertaker 185, A great all around board, Floats great in powder, Carves real nice on groomed trails. Nice stiff board, but the nose will flex enough to stay on top of the snow. Not a lot of sidecut, likes big long turns and is real fast in deep snow, nothing better than flying past people struggling in waist deep powder. Prior Pow Stick 176, this is a prototype of the new style, Not as stiff as the old style, I think the production boards are a little stiffer, but I could be wrong. Real fun board but the nose may be a little soft to ride on groomers, looks like it bounces all over the place, and doesn't feel as secure when turning on hardpack, But the nose will flex to stay on top of the lightest powder. The older style is much stiffer, and carve real well on groomed runs, Never tried one in deep powder but it was a lot of fun thru the trees. O-Sin 168, great all around board (except for ice), real short, fun in trees and cliffs (no tail to break) and the best crud board I've ever ridden. It's one of my shorter boards, but feels even shorter than it is (not much bigger than my Arbor A-Frame 162),the nose will always stay on top of the snow no matter how light it is. Real fun board even though it's not the best quality and may break at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 as a proud owner of Rossi Undertaker 198, I can say that IF ONLY i have to ride on it's preferred condition (softer open slopes) only - I drop all coilers/doneks/volants altogether and gonna ride u-taker only. it's soooooooo much fun to ride. it's great open-slope carver - on groomed slopes or off. it shines on steeps - where only speed limit is your clothings. 13.5m of sidecut radii will do best to do laydown carves on almost any condition of slopes excluding icier moguls. can't ride it with softboots though - 28.0 mondo size and 23.5cm waist. LOVE this board. fastest and funnest pow-pow board ever, only complaint that after riding it for two days - next few days on any other board I regain my skills, after riding with such a huge setback of swallowtail. PS not a good photo nor a good day, but first day on it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Someone on BOL either has or knows someow who has experience on the Nitros. Please chime in. I have heard that the Powder Gun is relatively soft, while the Undertaker is relatively stiff. Any input?? At this point, I am considering a Nitro 195cm Powder Gun or a 198cm Undertaker. My only concern with the Undertaker is that the runnout below my favorite powder stash is either manky bumps (from people that should not be there) or a narrow (10 to 12 feet wide)and super steep (45*) chute. As long as I could jump-turn either board I would be alright. My 182cm Tanker has an effective edge of 141.5cm and I can jump turn it all day long. I expect the longer boards to weigh more, increasing the swing weight to jump-turn them around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 My only concern with the Undertaker is that the runnout below my favorite powder stash is either manky bumps (from people that should not be there) or a narrow (10 to 12 feet wide)and super steep (45*) chute. As long as I could jump-turn either board I would be alright. My 182cm Tanker has an effective edge of 141.5cm and I can jump turn it all day long. I expect the longer boards to weigh more, increasing the swing weight to jump-turn them around. Just Sack up and straightline it! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Just Sack up and straightline it! :D :lol: Well... when in that chute, my sack is up, fully retracted rather, with two lumps just below my adams apple, one on each side. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted September 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 I weigh about 210, and mostly ride the heavy wet snow of the northwest. Rossi Undertaker 185, A great all around board, Floats great in powder, Carves real nice on groomed trails. Nice stiff board, but the nose will flex enough to stay on top of the snow. Not a lot of sidecut, likes big long turns and is real fast in deep snow, nothing better than flying past people struggling in waist deep powder. Thanks for the input! Since you and tpalka are in the same weight range and have good comments about ST's in the 180's, maybe I should not rule out the 185 Undertaker. hmmm... decisions, decisions :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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