Silly laws and regulations...

[gdboytyler]

the link: http://medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

And the fact that roughly 50% more people take their own lives with guns then take the lives of others We've met the enemy, and they are us :(

Here are some statistics from the link:

"In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) "

I think the statistics are misleading on how dangerous gun ownership is to law-abiding citizens.

Where are the gun deaths that are attributed to police shootings? Did the justified police shooting get lumped in with legal intervention or with the homicide number? How many of the 11,348 homicides were caused by criminal vs criminal (gang shooting, drug deal gone bad, etc.)? The people that committed suicide by shooting themselves, probably would have committed suicide even if they didn't have a gun.

As for accidental deaths, here are some more statistics:

Accidental Deaths in the U.S. for 1998

Source is the National Safety Council

41,200 deaths related to motor vehicle accidents,

16,600 in falls at home and on the job,

4,100 from water in drowning,

9,400 from poisoning, in the same year,

3,700 due to fire or burns,

3,200 due to choking, and

900 from guns

I think I'll continue to live dangerously and keep my car, surfboards, and guns.

[kipstar]

In the famed Ali G skit with NRA and so on, he came up with the idea:

why not allow guns, but ban bullets

or

allow bullets but ban guns

or

allow guns and bullets, but make them a different size so they don't fit together

To the anti gun lobby, he did point out

'but the hos, they likes da guns innit'

Genius.

[skategoat]

In the famed Ali G skit with NRA and so on, he came up with the idea:

why not allow guns, but ban bullets

or

allow bullets but ban guns

or

allow guns and bullets, but make them a different size so they don't fit together

To the anti gun lobby, he did point out

'but the hos, they likes da guns innit'

Genius.

Or how about Chris Rock's idea? Make bullets really expensive, like $5,000 each. That way, you think twice before pulling the trigger.

[Justin A.]

Modern firearms are perfectly safe. They never go off on their own (junk guns/SNS aside) for no reason. The only thing that can make a gun unsafe is human interaction.

I just heard a statistic that said that 99% of people breathe and that 100% of that 99% die at some point in their lives. I hereby make a motion to pass legislation to regulate breathing because it is obviously dangerous.

________

Eddie irvine

[Jack M]

I am not judging anyone but do you guys know how bizarre this conversation sounds to anyone living in Canada or Europe?

why? Canadian citizens own more guns per capita than US citizens.

[C5 Golfer]

sad part - one of many - our kids are growing up each year with less education about firearms. 50 yrs ago when I was a kid we handled firearms of all types in the house. I had 1 sister and 3 brothers and when the parents were to leave for an evening, and we were left alone never once can I remeber did we get the guns out of the closet to play or handle them. sure we could take them out to clean them but safe handling of firearms was taught to us early on. Now days how many times do you hear about a 14 yr old accidently shooting his best friend, I do not remember anyone I grew up with ever being shot. When I was in elementry school I brought a long gun, 45/70 to school for show and tell. I carried that thing as I walked to school. Sioux City Iowa, pop 100,000. Yes Society has changed but instead of trying to control weapons - lets spend some money to figure out what is wrong from today and yesteryear. Fixed it. ( Side Bar - if your 3 yr old keeps writing on the wall with crayons, you are in one of two camps. Either you teach them why you should not write on the wall or you take the crayons away. Which are You?)

[Jack M]

41,200 deaths related to motor vehicle accidents,

16,600 in falls at home and on the job,

4,100 from water in drowning,

9,400 from poisoning, in the same year,

3,700 due to fire or burns,

3,200 due to choking, and

900 from guns

I think I'll continue to live dangerously and keep my car, surfboards, and guns.

Precisely. We now have the technology to reduce moto vehicle accidents probably tenfold, but you won't see that even get proposed because it would mean putting all cars on some form of autopilot, implementing GPS regulated speed control, and mandating carpooling, and people just wouldn't like that. We'd rather all drive ourselves to work everyday, one person per five-seat vehicle, coffee in one hand, cell phone in the other, steering with our knees and reading the paper. So I get very skeptical when someone pretends to be all concerned and wring their hands about the relatively few needless gun deaths in this country. The truth is nobody *really* cares that much about death. Otherwise we would fight the #1 killer, motor vehicle accidents, tooth and nail. Buuuuut we don't.

[Neil Gendzwill]

why? Canadian citizens own more guns per capita than US citizens.

I've heard that statistic before. If it's true, it's likely that it's because our population skews more rural than the US (speculation). Lots of rural people own long guns of various types, but handguns are strongly regulated here.

And yeah, the conversation sounds wierd to Canadians. We have a different culture here about guns.

[C5 Golfer]

Precisely. We now have the technology to reduce moto vehicle accidents probably tenfold, but you won't see that even get proposed because it would mean putting all cars on some form of autopilot, implementing GPS regulated speed control, and mandating carpooling, and people just wouldn't like that. We'd rather all drive ourselves to work everyday, one person per five-seat vehicle, coffee in one hand, cell phone in the other, steering with our knees and reading the paper. So I get very skeptical when someone pretends to be all concerned and wring their hands about the relatively few needless gun deaths in this country. The truth is nobody *really* cares that much about death. Otherwise we would fight the #1 killer, motor vehicle accidents, tooth and nail. Buuuuut we don't.

Jack,

I think you are correct we really do not care about accidental death. Most likely due to the fact we all think it is going to happen the other person - not me. Case in point - we are still very tolerant of drunk drivers here in USA compared to several Euro countries. I wonder what the Stats on Drunk drivers killing or injuring compared to a gun killing or injuring. My bet is on the drunks kill or injure more.

[Sinecure]

Modern firearms are perfectly safe. They never go off on their own (junk guns/SNS aside) for no reason. The only thing that can make a gun unsafe is human interaction.

Yeah, but look at the humans you meet out there. The ones who are smart enough to be online here, I'd trust most with a handgun around me (reluctantly). However, I've met an awful lot of stupid people, deranged people, drunks with poor judgement, etc. who I'd feel very unsafe around.

[Jon Dahl]

Life is neither safe nor fair, so get over it. More people die in the hospital from doctoral stupidity, but should we eliminate hospitals? Or doctors? I am more scared out on the highway than I am anywhere else. The solution to any problem is to target the problem, and find a way to solve the issue with the target group. Now, in the case of gun deaths, it involves a very skewed amount of young, colored men. Wanna tackle that problem in this society? No one in government would, it will kill their political life. If I do, I am called racist. I am not. What are the driving factors? I wish I knew, desparation, economy, testosterone? There is no knee-jerk solution. Educate! Understand the consequences! Think!

[skategoat]

why? Canadian citizens own more guns per capita than US citizens.

Um...cause we don't carry our guns while we go shopping?

[Galen]

Um...cause we don't carry our guns while we go shopping?

...Zing! nice, very nice..< golf clap > :D

[Gecko]

Sounds like a rough job

yeah life is rough here....I finished up all the work I had to do last night and now I have 3 days of walking white sand beaches and swimming/snorkling in the atoll lagoon...

on a side note can we please bring this conversation back to silly laws and not just another gun laws discussion???

here's one chewing gum is banned in Sigapore...punishable by 5 lashes ofa cane. Why you ask? well improperly disposed of gum can gum/screw up the train/subway system which is used for national defence. still rather silly if you ask me

[Justin A.]

on a side note can we please bring this conversation back to silly laws and not just another gun laws discussion???

I meant it as a gun control thread originaly, but I wasn't specific enough in the title, so...

Here in NH, you aren't allowed to pick up trash that isn't yours, straighten signs, pick up a fallen bench or anything like that within a state park, because it is illegal under "Maintaining the parks without a permit".

________

P-120

[Jack M]

on a side note can we please bring this conversation back to silly laws and not just another gun laws discussion???

heh, not until somebody invokes Godwin's law. ;)

[skategoat]

...Zing! nice, very nice..< golf clap > :D

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[C5 Golfer]

Silly gun law--- In California there is a law outlawing the civilian ownership of Barret's .50 caliber big a** rifle. It weighs a bunch and is almost as tall as I.

The City of LA I believe has these rifles in their SWAT dept and maybe other cities in CA as well. So what happened next after CA outlawed the civilian use is the President of Barret sent a scathing letter to all CA Police Depts that had their rifles saying Barret Mfg will longer service or repair any of their rifles from any CA Agency. Next, the same rifle is now available in .416 caliber which is legal in CA and just as powerful. Legal because the law outlawed the .50 caliber not the rifle. The only downside to this silly law is now no CA agency can get there rifles repaired or serviced. I know of no crimes ever been involved with this big gun so there is no history or reason for it law.

Would it not be in the best interest of gun laws to outlaw little guns and make the ownership of guns based on they MUST weigh 20lbs and be at least 6 feet long and have a capacity of at least 40 rounds. No, instead our dumb legislators make laws like they did in Clinton era making a law that limited magazine capacity to 10 rounds. What that did is it brought forth a new wave of handguns in this country that were smaller and more concealable because the magazine was so short. Would it not have been the smart thing to require all handguns have a minimum capacity of 40 rounds so the grip would be 20 inch long? How well do you think bank robbery would go if the guy came in dragging a 6 foot gun or a handgun that was the size of a chainsaw.

[Justin A.]

The Barret .50 cals are also more expensive than your average street thug would care to spend. Why pay $7800 for a semi-auto monster 30lb 6' gun when for the same dough you could get 2 AKs and 3000 rounds.

well...maybe not quite, but you know...

________

Bmw f800s

[kjl]

heh, not until somebody invokes Godwin's law. ;)

Jack, why are you such a forum nazi? :D

I liked it better when we were arguing about Star Wars and ExtremeCarving ;)

[skategoat]

Jack, why are you such a forum nazi? :D

I liked it better when we were arguing about Star Wars and ExtremeCarving ;)

Speaking of which, those ExtremeCarving guys are Swiss and by law, all Swiss males must serve in the military and must own a gun. And by "gun", we're talking about SIG assault rifles, not little bitty Glocks. So, watch what you say about ExtremeCarving.

[Dr D]

Um...cause we don't carry our guns while we go shopping?

I don't carry a screwdriver or a shovel with me shopping either BUT I can if I want to.........

They are just tools people they don't have secret little evil brains and they aren't plotting to slaughter you all in your sleep.

[Dr D]

Life is neither safe nor fair, so get over it. More people die in the hospital from doctoral stupidity, but should we eliminate hospitals? Or doctors? I am more scared out on the highway than I am anywhere else. The solution to any problem is to target the problem, and find a way to solve the issue with the target group. Now, in the case of gun deaths, it involves a very skewed amount of young, colored men. Wanna tackle that problem in this society? No one in government would, it will kill their political life. If I do, I am called racist. I am not. What are the driving factors? I wish I knew, desparation, economy, testosterone? There is no knee-jerk solution. Educate! Understand the consequences! Think!

Medical mistakes and drug interactions etc kill somewhere between 400 and 600 thousand people a year. Does this mean we should ban Doctors? Maybe:D

The Real problem is perspective. The more heat and discontent that can be stirred up and the more scared a population gets the more it begs for governmental control. STUPID

Historically correct though. Latest example is the patriot act. Post 9/11 freakout and suddenly government has new powers over us.

For the liberals among us it may come as a surprise to you but we conservatives think George W is a tool too! Spends like a liberal, Consolidates power like a liberal makes some great democrat presidents like kennedy look very conservative. Works a simple blow the hell out of them and teach em a lesson operation into a full blown corporate war endeavor.

The whole gun control issue is designed to consolidate government power which is why we have the second amendment in the first place. Without that right you can easily lose the others. ITs all wrapped around the concept of self reliance and personal responsibility. You are either your own person or you belong brain and all to some group or government idea. only sheep need fear the wolves

[Derf]

I don't carry a screwdriver or a shovel with me shopping either BUT I can if I want to.........

They are just tools people they don't have secret little evil brains and they aren't plotting to slaughter you all in your sleep.

I almost always carry my Leatherman or my swiss army utility knife with me. It has tools on it (pliers, screwdrivers, bottle opener and so on). These are tools. A gun is not a tool, except maybe a killing or serious wounding tool (I am talking about a hand gun, not a hunting riffle, which is a hunting tool). I know I will need my tools to open a can, open a bottle, cut a piece of rope, tighten a screw or anything. You carry a gun if you intend to kill or seriously wound someone.

[Derf]

I am not judging anyone but do you guys know how bizarre this conversation sounds to anyone living in Canada or Europe?

I am from Québec (the "European" part of Canada as some would say), and this conversation does sound bizarre to me.