Silly laws and regulations...

[C5 Golfer]

I am from Québec (the "European" part of Canada as some would say), and this conversation does sound bizarre to me.

What part sounds bizarre? Do you watch any CNN, NBC , ABC , CBS local news? Every night I hear some else gets, raped , mugged, beatup, shot what have you. Last night was a 72 yr old nice guy living alone and 4 guys force their way into his house, bound him with duct tape and threw him to the ground to rob him. We just want to live but there is so much violence happening to innocent people on an hourly basis.

[Derf]

Precisely. We now have the technology to reduce moto vehicle accidents probably tenfold, but you won't see that even get proposed because it would mean putting all cars on some form of autopilot, implementing GPS regulated speed control, and mandating carpooling, and people just wouldn't like that. We'd rather all drive ourselves to work everyday, one person per five-seat vehicle, coffee in one hand, cell phone in the other, steering with our knees and reading the paper. So I get very skeptical when someone pretends to be all concerned and wring their hands about the relatively few needless gun deaths in this country. The truth is nobody *really* cares that much about death. Otherwise we would fight the #1 killer, motor vehicle accidents, tooth and nail. Buuuuut we don't.

In essence, you're right, but one thing I could add to that argument is an egocentric one. Everyone knows about the danger of driving a car (even though most underestimate it), that's one reason why SUVs are popular: people feel safe in them to the detriment of others. If they get in an accident with an SUV (not inculding rollovers), they know that the other person will be more injured than them (or the other will die and they won't). It's a little similar with firearms (in the case of the protection argument): they know that they can kill the perpetrator if they shoot first, without giving him the benefit of the doubt, and they will walk away without murder charge because of the self-defence argument. In essence, in both examples, people care only about themselves and not about others. And both these examples can lead to escalation (bigger SUVs to protect yourself form other SUVs or bigger guns to protect yourself from other people with guns).

[skategoat]

What part sounds bizarre? Do you watch any CNN, NBC , ABC , CBS local news? Every night I hear some else gets, raped , mugged, beatup, shot what have you. Last night was a 72 yr old nice guy living alone and 4 guys force their way into his house, bound him with duct tape and threw him to the ground to rob him. We just want to live but there is so much violence happening to innocent people on an hourly basis.

Concealed weapons, debating the right to carry weapons, firearms for self-defence, taking guns shopping with you, personal weapons training, hiding a gun in your DayPlanner, choosing weapons that don't get caught in your clothing - these are not everyday topics of conversation outside of the United States.

And Derf gets his news from Radio-Canada, good old Mother CBC. I think the lead item last night was the inconsistency of the gravy at Chez Bob's.

[Derf]

I often hear people say, this is the greatest country in the world, and in the next breath say, you better have a hand gun to protect yourself on the street and an AK47 in the closset in case the goverment gets out of control.

I guess I'm still trying to understand.

BobD

So am I...

[Neil Gendzwill]

these are not everyday topics of conversation outside of the United States.

Yes. Frankly, I just avoid the topic when talking with Americans. There's no point in arguing.

[BoarderYUL]

Skategoat... please at least do NOT compare Radio-Canada and CBC.

I know it's the same entity, but there are HUGE differences between both TV channels..... CBC is a lot towards american programming and Radio-Can programs only (except for Lost and Desperate housewives) canadian content.

TV habits are pretty different in Quebec than they are in the rest of Canada. Because of french language, we have to produce our own stuff instead of buying TV shows from the USA.

Of course, CTV, CBC and Global are watched by a lot of people, but most francophones stick to their french programming.

[BoarderYUL]

Skategoat... please at least do NOT compare Radio-Canada and CBC.

OK I know that one was off-topic, but I had to highlights the differences ! :rolleyes: Maybe I should stop thinking about my job when I come here ! heheh

[C5 Golfer]

Concealed weapons, debating the right to carry weapons, firearms for self-defence, taking guns shopping with you, personal weapons training, hiding a gun in your DayPlanner, choosing weapons that don't get caught in your clothing - these are not everyday topics of conversation outside of the United States.

And Derf gets his news from Radio-Canada, good old Mother CBC. I think the lead item last night was the inconsistency of the gravy at Chez Bob's.

Now I understand -- so it is all relative to where you live whether the subject is bizarre. I envy those who can live wherever without having lock your doors at night.

Last night I rode my bicycle for about a 25 mile ride and passed my grocery store on the way home. Felt hungry for something but couldn’t stop because I did not have my lock with me so I could go into the store for 5 mins. and this is in a pretty nice part of the city. I had to ride home and then go back. It is a very sick and sad world we live in these days in the States, Best country in the world ???? that may be debatable these days. No I do not carry a weapon.

[skategoat]

Skategoat... please at least do NOT compare Radio-Canada and CBC.

I know it's the same entity, but there are HUGE differences between both TV channels..... CBC is a lot towards american programming and Radio-Can programs only (except for Lost and Desperate housewives) canadian content.

TV habits are pretty different in Quebec than they are in the rest of Canada. Because of french language, we have to produce our own stuff instead of buying TV shows from the USA.

Of course, CTV, CBC and Global are watched by a lot of people, but most francophones stick to their french programming.

Okay, pardon moi! Hey BoarderYUL, did you see Bad Cop, Bon Cop? Kind of uneven but overall, not a bad job. I'd like to see more movies like that - 50/50 French/English, plays to both audiences, makes good comedy out of our differences.

[skategoat]

Yes. Frankly, I just avoid the topic when talking with Americans. There's no point in arguing.

Yer right. Maybe I'll catch up on that Waaaay OT thread.

[BoarderYUL]

did you see Bad Cop, Bon Cop? Kind of uneven but overall, not a bad job. I'd like to see more movies like that - 50/50 French/English, plays to both audiences, makes good comedy out of our differences.

Nope, didn't even see it yet. Heard it's a good comedy based on the "typical hollywoodian recipe". Have to go watch it soon !

Happy you enjoyed it. Not a lot of anglo canadians saw the movie though... you're one of the only i know !

[Buell]

What part sounds bizarre? Do you watch any CNN, NBC , ABC , CBS local news? Every night I hear some else gets, raped , mugged, beatup, shot what have you. Last night was a 72 yr old nice guy living alone and 4 guys force their way into his house, bound him with duct tape and threw him to the ground to rob him. We just want to live but there is so much violence happening to innocent people on an hourly basis.

Thankfully, I must be missing all the "violence happening to innocent people on an hourly basis." Then again, I never watch "any CNN, NBC , ABC , CBS local news." The media is profit motivated (sells adds, needs viewers) and is rarely an accurate indicator of the real world, especially "short attention span" television news.

As I have mentioned earlier, I don't particularly care if you carry your concealed weapons. However, to act like one is in grave danger of physical violence in the US if you don't, is absurd. Random physical violence is very uncommon.

Rare is the instance when prohibition works, but I really like the 6 foot gun idea C5. But then only 6 footers would have guns! ;)

Thanks, Buell

[Dr D]

I almost always carry my Leatherman or my swiss army utility knife with me. It has tools on it (pliers, screwdrivers, bottle opener and so on). These are tools. A gun is not a tool, except maybe a killing or serious wounding tool (I am talking about a hand gun, not a hunting riffle, which is a hunting tool). I know I will need my tools to open a can, open a bottle, cut a piece of rope, tighten a screw or anything. You carry a gun if you intend to kill or seriously wound someone.

Its a tool shovels are used for digging holes etc etc.

A handgun is used for personal defense always has been historically. In particular for aged infirmed etc or for women who might otherwise be unable to fight off an attacker. I carry with the intention of never pulling it out until there is no other option. If I ever have to pull it out it will be with the intent of never pulling the trigger until there is no other option and if that time comes then I will pull the trigger with the intent of neutralizing the threat as quickly as possible. Ideally that means a wound rather than a kill. I shoot a larger caliber, believe it or not, for the shock value it will knock down a meth addict and may save his life. A smaller caliber may require a more shots to stop the attack. If you have never been in a position to take another human life you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know anyone who has taken a life that relishes the experience. Good honest people will only take that step when life or liberty of them or their family is at risk.

yes they have a specific use these tools and it is to protect the user from harm. Only in the movies does the mere touch of a handgun elicit a bloodlust urge.

[Dr D]

As I have mentioned earlier, I don't particularly care if you carry your concealed weapons. However, to act like one is in mortal danger in the US if you don't, is absurd.

ITs not about being in mortal danger if you don't carry. Its about having that option should you have to venture into places or areas that aren't safe. Its about taking responsibility for your own safety and that of your family and being able to do something if something bad happens. ITs about not living with guilt the rest of your life because you didn't or couldn't fight back. There is a huge difference between murder and self defense both legally and morally. Ultimately it is up to you as you have said.

[Dr D]

Life is neither safe nor fair, so get over it. More people die in the hospital from doctoral stupidity, but should we eliminate hospitals? Or doctors? I am more scared out on the highway than I am anywhere else. The solution to any problem is to target the problem, and find a way to solve the issue with the target group. Now, in the case of gun deaths, it involves a very skewed amount of young, colored men. Wanna tackle that problem in this society? No one in government would, it will kill their political life. If I do, I am called racist. I am not. What are the driving factors? I wish I knew, desparation, economy, testosterone? There is no knee-jerk solution. Educate! Understand the consequences! Think!

A really interesting note in the history of gun control is that most gun laws were originally written as Jim Crow laws to prevent former slaves and poor folks from having the ability to defend themselves. It has come full circle and those laws are now essentially targeting the same group. If we are all created equal etc. why do we continue to allow crime and depravity to ravage our poor and our minorities. The answer if you look is the still common prejudice against those people owning the means to defend themselves. A black man with a gun is a target to a law enforcement officer simply because of stereotyping. IF we can solve that problem and get honest citizens of all races and creeds on equal footing and responsible for themselves a lot of inner city violence would disappear

[Derf]

I agree that in your argumentation, a gun is tool of defense. Historically? I don't know, it depends on your history. Maybe it's because Canada and the United States have a quite different history. The United States has the American Civil War in its history, Canada has not. We've hade some episode (Rebellion of 1837, October crisis in 1970 with the War Measure Act), but not as big I think. I couldn't really say, I have never lived in the US or discussed in depth with an American.

Has for having been in the position to take another life, there are two answers: 1) Never with a weapon by it's common definition or 2) Regularely, by driving a car. Like it was mentionned previously, there a more deaths by car than by gun, so I consider the second answer to be valid. As for self defense, there are other means, but it may also depend on where you live, and that's where escalation comes in: more criminals have guns, so more citizens have guns, and I think it's as easy for a Canadian criminal to steal a gun than it is for an American criminal (because they rarely buy them). On a sidenote, here in Canada, even pepper spray is illegal as a means of self-defense.

[Derf]

Concealed weapons, debating the right to carry weapons, firearms for self-defence, taking guns shopping with you, personal weapons training, hiding a gun in your DayPlanner, choosing weapons that don't get caught in your clothing - these are not everyday topics of conversation outside of the United States.

And Derf gets his news from Radio-Canada, good old Mother CBC. I think the lead item last night was the inconsistency of the gravy at Chez Bob's.

I couldn't have said it better. And yes, I do get my news from Radio-Canada. I don't have cable, so I don't get any of those stations (and when I had cable at my parents, I never watched the news on those channels because they were not local).

Last summer, there was a wave of home invasions here in Montréal and its surroundings, and if I am not mistaken, guns were involved in less than half of them. I think that the police suspects most of them to be done by one person. There are some shootings, but they are rare, and are mostly related to organized crime.

[Justin A.]

Concealed weapons, debating the right to carry weapons, firearms for self-defence, taking guns shopping with you, personal weapons training, hiding a gun in your DayPlanner, choosing weapons that don't get caught in your clothing - these are not everyday topics of conversation outside of the United States.

I think that maybe be beacause few (if any) countries other than the US have a constitution with the Right to Bear Arms written in as the second amendment. And of those few countries fewer still have governments that are easily persuaded by people looking to take away those constitutionaly guaranteed rights.

________

BUY VAPIR VAPORIZER

[Buell]

Dr D,

I changed my post to say "grave danger of physical violence" instead of "mortal danger" which I think more accurately reflects the post that I am referring to in my post.

I personally find life to be plenty safe and feel zero need to carry a gun for safety. For me, the resposibility and hassles of carrying a gun do not even come close to the chance that I would need it to protect myself from physical harm.

That said, I would certainly not mess with an armed Dr D at 250+ pounds. :D

[Dr D]

Dr D,

That said, I would certainly not mess with an armed Dr D at 250+ pounds. :D

Interestingly enough that may have something to do with the fact I have never been mugged:rolleyes:

Even in the navy when everyone got mugged on payday I didn't have a problem.

I guess the bad guys do a risk asssessment before they act just like everyone else. The right to carry adds to that risk. The RIGHT is the key not the actual carrying itself.

It has been brought to my attention that I was somewhat insensitive in an earlier post regarding rape victims. I have edited the post to remove the offending line and would like to assure anyone else that may have taken offense that it was certainly not my intent. Everyone experiences life differently and it was wrong of me to make such a blanket statement. SORRY:(

[Jon Dahl]

Believe it or not, most states still have blue laws on the books. For those that do not know, those are Sunday business closing laws. Some travel very deeply into a persons private life. The original 3 strikes law is still on the books in Virginia. In 1610 it was enacted, and the third offense of not attending church was punished by death. As a Christian, I can tell you that these sort of laws will come into existence again, as will the draconian punishments of old. Laugh if you will, but remember....history always has a way of repeating itself, especially for those who refuse to learn by past mistakes.

[bartron]

Skategoat... please at least do NOT compare Radio-Canada and CBC.

I know it's the same entity, but there are HUGE differences between both TV channels..... CBC is a lot towards american programming and Radio-Can programs only (except for Lost and Desperate housewives) canadian content.

I second that. It's kind of like the difference between the federal Liberal party and the Quebec Liberal party (a separate provincial party). However, the types of stories that are covered by the news on CBC and Radio-Can are pretty-much the same. Both prioritize their stories rather similarly and they both prioritize the stories siginificantly different from the U.S. channels. That was the point that Michael Moore was trying to make in his movies (I believe it was Farenheit 9/11).

'later...

[bartron]

Not a lot of anglo canadians saw the movie though... you're one of the only i know !

There's a second one: my youngest brother. He really liked it. But then again, NHL is his religion and apparently 'Bad Cop, Bon Cop' has several NHL references in it. :)

'later...

[Guest vigilante76]

Heya,,nice to see some fellow montrealers around here.

[Sinecure]

Not a lot of anglo canadians saw the movie though... you're one of the only i know !

My business partner saw it when he was in Montreal this summer. He loved it and can't stop telling me about it. He's an anglo cannuck and his wife is just anglo.

Of course its not on Netflix so the chances of me seeing it anytime soon are pretty slim. I did send them a title request though.