BoarderYUL Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I'll be buying bindings soon and still haven't decide if I should switch for step-in plates... I had standard bindings since I started carving. Some people told me step-ins are incredible and fast an so on... If I go for step ins, i'll have to convert my boots, which is not really a big deal, even if the heel assembly costs 69$ USD (which will add to the total of the bindings cost) Does it really make a difference or is it just a question of personnal choice? What is your advice ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 This thread may be useful. I prefer step-ins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 the only way you're going to notice a difference is if you try both, which likely wont happen stepins = convenience, but a little more maintenance with the heels. Supposedly stiffer, too. I like not having to bend over to clamp in/ get out, but thats really just a convenience preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I'll be buying bindings soon and still haven't decide if I should switch for step-in plates... I had standard bindings since I started carving. Some people told me step-ins are incredible and fast an so on... If I go for step ins, i'll have to convert my boots, which is not really a big deal, even if the heel assembly costs 69$ USD (which will add to the total of the bindings cost) Does it really make a difference or is it just a question of personnal choice? What is your advice ? It made a difference to me at Stevens one day - me being an old 59 yr old guy and I was on my 178 Volkl with step-ins and this youngster got on the chair with me. He had the typical 3 strap on a about 150 freeride and he looked me and my board and said "Hey you wanna race to the bottom?" I looked at his 3 strap set up and said "Sure" So we get to the top and he goes over to sit down to strap up and I stepin as I get off without stopping and as I passed him I said " See ya at the bottom and was up to full speed before he even got of his a##. I met me in the lift line and did not say one word to me , just starred at me and my board. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I have tried both and IMHO it's preference. I use TD2s, and have tried both step-in and standard. I don't notice a difference in the ride unless it's firm and the grooming is bad and then I prefer the Standard ride. However, I really like the convenience of step-ins. Especially when I am trying to keep up with www.oldsnowboards.com who steps in getting off the lift and will be halfway down the run by the time you clip in with Standards I will probably use the Standards for NASTAR racing this season but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy D Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Definite convenience and bling factor for me: I use step-ins. As for maintenance: I haven't done much but check the heels are securely fastened to the boots, and there aren't any untoward stress cracks, etc. The mechanism is still working smoothly and I've not had any trouble over the last few years. One of these days I should probably crack open the heel pieces and give them a fresh lube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Other than convenience, step ins are safer !! Regular bail bindings are prone to release while you riding, which is terrible, terrible experience. Use step in. Well, step in also has a possibility of release on your heel if snow stuck on your heel. Make sure before engage. But, if that happens, you will notice in your first turn, not while you are in the middle of piste. Plus this, when that happens, I could manage myself safe stop by pushing against toe bail, which is not possible with regular binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 The other cool thing is when you are stuck on the flats. Yank the handle, skate for a while, when you start to pick up steam, step in again. No sitting on your ass and losing your momentum, no bending over to flip the toeclip and risk catching an edge, no problem with the toeclip dragging over the edge of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgang Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 just like everybody says its personal perference. I like the steps-in its just easier to deal with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Other than convenience, step ins are safer !!Regular bail bindings are prone to release while you riding, which is terrible, terrible experiene. Any binding can release most releases are caused by adjustment- fit issues, Any boot can break, any board can fail. There isn't really a saftey issue with bails VS step ins. Many riders even feel that step in are more dangerous-6 in one, half a dozen in the other.... There is profomance and conveniance issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathy brower Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 see www.catek.com http://www.catek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=134 I have used both the Catek step in and standard bail version plates. For my style of riding, I prefer the standard bails. Its not to say the the bails are better than the step ins as each have their pros and cons. I would encourage the use of both setups, on varied terrain over a period of time. The step ins do offer an ease of entry and will produce a feel that is much more rigid and stiffer than that of the bails. This has its advantage for a more efficient ride in the sense that any amount of energy from the rider is directly transmitted. However, I have seen a good portion of riders fail to reach their potential because of its stiffness. Combine that with a stiff boot and performance, from what I have seen, is somewhat plateaued. Many riders are under the notion that stiff is best or the way to go..in some cases it is. Stronger heavier riders will benefit from the extra stiffness as well as the disclipline being done will dictate the need for a stiffer more efficient setup or not. Plates with the standard bails are not as rigid as the step in versions. The flex characteristics of the bails will undergo change the more they get used. When new, the bail plates are at their highest efficiency. As wear ensues, slight play will develop and one would notice this. For my style of riding, I like that. More often than not, less efficiency or more play, will introduce a larger margin for error on the riders behalf. Same sense between riding powder verses hard surfaces. The powder creates a larger margin for error, where mistakes can be done and not noticed as the surface is not efficient. Take that same rider and put 'em on a firm surface and mistakes will instantly surface. That there in itself is why you here that people dont like ice. Not because it s bad but because their true skills come to the surface and after riding powder thinking they are great are quickly humbled. This play/less efficency can be very beneficial to improving or speeding up a particular learning curve wether novice, intermediate or advanced. The play of the bails will allow me to really tweak on heel side turns allowing a little more lateral flex at the ankles without having the board over compensating its angle to the snow. My only regret from not using the step ins is having to replace a pair of boots every season from busting off the heel shelfs. The only comment that I have on mixing step ins and bails is to try it. The whole process of gaining experience comes from trial and error to see what will work best for your skill level and style. Just remember one thing, When one trys something new for the first time that is different from what they normally use, the body and mind's first reaction will usually be to reject it. Ignore that and give the new change some time. Then make the decision. Once the body and mind acclimates to the new change, you may realize the benefits of it and the ways it may be beneficial or not. CMC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnshapiro Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I prefer bails. I just don't feel as secure with step ins. No idea why. I'm sure it's in my head. Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 When you get to be as good as CMC (he's awesome, just ask him), then you'll be able to tell the difference between the two. Until then step-ins are way easier for in and out. It makes the most difference on cat walks and other long traverses where you can get going a bit and then just stomp into the binding while you are moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Any binding can release most releases are caused by adjustment- fit issues, Any boot can break, any board can fail. There isn't really a saftey issue with bails VS step ins. Many riders even feel that step in are more dangerous-6 in one, half a dozen in the other.... There is profomance and conveniance issues. what he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I ride bails. Tried step-ins, didn't like them much; this is odd as I used to ride clickers on my freeride setup... There's pros and cons for both types of binding: For bails the pros are, as I see it and in no particular order: cheapness, extra 'give' and that failure points are likely to be visible, and the cons are convenience, extra 'give' and the toe bail flopping over when you're skating. For step-ins, you have pros of convenience, no need to worry about the toe bails when skating, and extra stiffness, and cons of cost, extra stiffness and potentially "hidden" failure points. There's not a compelling overall factor as far as I can see it; stiffness / give is a pro or a con depending on who you are, hidden / visible failure points are not too much of an issue if you actually take care of your gear and the toe bail thing is not an issue if you don't end up skating... So it comes down to convenience and cost. I can see the "convenience" side of step-ins, although to be honest I can clip my rear foot into and out of my bindings as fast as most people can get into step-ins, especially if there's snow stuck on their boots, and about the only time I have to do so is getting on and off the lifts or coming out of restaurants. For the moment, bending down to clip in is not a major issue; if it becomes one then I'm not sure I ought to be riding anyway :) Personally, I like the extra give, and the fact I can have a better set of "conventional" bindings for the same money (or, more to the point, that for a set of "equivalent level" bindings, I have money left over for beer). So it's all a matter of choice, really. Possibly the best bet would be to get a set of boots with intec heels included in the package and then try both. If you don't like the step-ins, you can always recoup some / most of the cost of the heels by selling them on. Or see if you can't rent / borrow a set of boots with intecs, although that changes all the variables at once... Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 You're my hero! :lol: :lol: :lol: Ralann should chime in on the opposite side of the quote from CMC about stiffer/step-ins hinder some riders progression. I saw him go from bails to home-made step-ins last season and his riding level jump 10 fold. What ever feels good is what I say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I have tried both and IMHO it's preference. I use TD2s, and have tried both step-in and standard. I don't notice a difference in the ride unless it's firm and the grooming is bad and then I prefer the Standard ride. However, I really like the convenience of step-ins. Especially when I am trying to keep up with www.oldsnowboards.com who steps in getting off the lift and will be halfway down the run by the time you clip in with Standards I will probably use the Standards for NASTAR racing this season but that's about it. Time on the snow is much to short, hanging around at the top of the chairlift is a great chance to get hit and a waste of time. I love Intec Step-Ins, they are the way. This past season , they kept me on snow during a time when I could not possibly operate a bail binding with a bum shoulder. I love them. I would suggest Intec users check their inserts. Pre failure installation of the t-nuts is good idea. I did have a couple crack an pull , fortunately it was not all four and I could ride down carefully. All my boots have been drilled, t-nutted with Stainless steel bolts and blue threadlocker. Now is a great time to take care of this pre-season. There are definite pros and cons, however, if you don't mind stopping and bending over, no biggy. Keep in mind , in most cases you can still use a intec heel in a standard binding, but not the other way around? Yes, the plastic of an Intec is much harder than the original or BOL heel, so , less flex. For most non racers it is not a deal breaker and Step ins are just too handy to ignore. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 is that when it's dumping your hell can get snow caked on and you can't step in with bails it's easier to knock the crud out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 My favorite stomp pad takes care of all but the very worst conditions the PNW can create quickly and effectively. Fine tuning the binding fit is also very important. However if it is gummed up bad, that is pretty frustrating , especially if you miss first tracks due to that!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 I rode bails for my first season and a half, then I ordered the intec kit from Catek and I haven't gone back. I noticed that the Stepins are MARGINALLY stiffer compared to the bails. I had a few problems with my bails that prompted the change, but Im sure it was a fluke with me. ________ Herbal Vaporizers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 It's good to have the choice. I used to use bails and stuff and now I use step-ins. I find them stiffer, although of course there are other factors involved in the boot/ binding interface too. One thing not mentioned above... I do a lot of back-country heli/cat stuff, and step-ins are useful there. First off, they're easier to get into and out of. With experience you don't need to do this much, but it's useful to be able to rest "boot out" sometimes, and you can "paddle" pretty effectively with step-ins. Plus you've not quite so far to reach should you sample a tree-well head-first. Secondly step-ins are great for the basket.. they've a very low profile and are easy to stash. Bails are still better than strappy bindings on both counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 I find the top/back of the Intec heel receiver just as effective as a spike stomp for clearing snow from the boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman0177 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Other than convenience, step ins are safer !!Regular bail bindings are prone to release while you riding, which is terrible, terrible experience. Use step in. Well, step in also has a possibility of release on your heel if snow stuck on your heel. Make sure before engage. But, if that happens, you will notice in your first turn, not while you are in the middle of piste. Plus this, when that happens, I could manage myself safe stop by pushing against toe bail, which is not possible with regular binding. Yeah I have had the same problem a couple of times now with my back foot coming out. Very VERY scary scenario. It happens especially when there is icy and/or man made snow, I've found. When I go to SES this year I am going to get a stepin for the back boot/binding but probably keep the standard on the front. This will be as much for convenience as safety though, cos I'm inflexible and lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 If you do go for the step-ins, remember to check the screws in the heel piece at the start of every riding day. My wife uses DSM/Blax boots with intec heels, and the screws tend to come lose pretty often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Yes, another reason to use and understand the proper use of thread locker. Install the t-nuts that came with your heels too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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