JRAZZ

I probably will. Stick to it, that is. I am having fun! Learning something new and challenging is part of it. I don't doubt that my SB experience is somewhat to blame. Some bad habits that don't cause a problem on a soft rocker board with soft boots are not acceptable on a narrow, stiff HB setup. That's actually a good thing as it forces me to ride better. My reason for the initial question (why hardboots) was to see if I can get what I feel I lack from softboots. Mainly support and responsiveness. I think the answer to that is definitely yes! I still need to tweak my setup, try out more things and just get more slope time. I am also thinking that a wider board with lower angles might be easier for me to ride. Will have to try that out. Maybe the correct question would have been wide or narrow board but I get the sense that that is an even more contentious issue :)

Oh, finally they have a sale. Pass renewal is going to be $369. Better. Now to convince the better half that it's a sound investment. Going to disengage myself and get up on Sunday. I like my parents but missing out on riding days is just wrong!

Sounds like a typical Sunday at Loveland...

Skiers should know the code. They should know that the downhill skier has the right of way. Straightligning downhill is douchebaggery. Kinda like how drivers should know the law. They should know when to give right of way and that driving slow in the left lane is... All right. All correct. So? Most people are OK, some make mistakes, some are stupid, and some are just A-holes. So? All of this is immaterial when you're pulling a ski pole out of your back. My beef with focusing on the RULES or RIGHT OF WAY is that it doesn't help you prevent an accident. Yes, other SHOULD know the code but are you going to trust others to follow it? Be safe proactively. Make sure you are safe and leave litigation and revenge for the courts.

That pretty much sums it up for me. My soft boots never quite feel supportive enough (I'm 220 lbs so I need some STIFF boots).

Animosity? Up until now the people I ran across were more positive than anything else. (look for the "heard it on the lift line" threads) I was talking to my friends at work (avid skiers). They say that the biggest problem on the slopes are those straightlining bombers that are locked in a death wedge and go a zillion miles an hour without control. That being said, you can be right or you can be smart. Look up slope, ride when it's free of skiers and know when to leave or just put on your soft setup and dive into the trees. The downhill skier has the right of way but physics doesn't seem to care.

Interesting... 3 posts that are all in a way connected. Back to front: I dunno. I can carve in my softboot setup. No, I don't get as low but the track is definitely a carve track. Interestingly enough, when I started carving it was easier to skid. Now, after a lot of carving I can't imagine skidding down the hill, even on double blacks. Many factors could play into this: Age, risk aversion, skill or... So my SB setup is a NS Cobra, Burton Imperial boots, Burton Cartel bindings (angles are 27/6). It's a light, forgiving and flexy setup. Yes it can carve but it doesn't do so automatically. You kinda have to lean in and hold the edge in the snow. The reason I am interested in HB is because I feel this setup is not supportive enough. My HB setup is: Vokel Renntiger, Catek WC binding, Icelantic 1 degree boots (angles are 60/65). Yes, it's a stiff and unforgiving setup. This alone could be the difference. I've been switching between the two setups looking for the difference in how I ride. I found that I use my back leg a lot with the soft setup. I tried going to higher angles with the back leg but found that it starts to get hard to turn really quickly. The feeling of the HS setup is like that, hard to turn at low speeds. When the speed builds up it gets much easier. The other thing I noticed is how unforgiving the Vokel is. Mistakes are not tolerated! (German accent here) This causes me to keep the speeds low and makes it hard to lay down a carve. I can get down the run but not having fun yet. I am left wondering what would happen if I put my HBs on a wide rockered board with lower angles...

I happen to be so inclined (and also have some ability to do so). Can you suggest how to make said inputs more intuitive? (PM me if you re interested in making something)

Camber = 100% camber. No decamber nonsense. Rocker= 100% smile. No gull wing. Tip and tail go up. Period. Hybrid = camber-rocker, rocker-camber, decamber, and general waviness go here. We are all slightly unbalanced, tipping over, off our rocker, and just slightly off camber. I freely admit to loving rockers! Bring it on! :)

We haven't had a contentious thread here for a while... What do you prefer to ride? You have to pick a side! No worming your way out of it. (I like rocker but only when I don't like camber / It's camber until I turn....)

I've eaten some great deal!

I'm still pissed :)

Definitely not the best in term of value. A couple of alternatives: Keystone/A-Basin pass for $300. WP OR Copper pass for $400 and that includes a kid pass for free! ($500 for Copper/WP/Eldora) A-Basin (no blackouts) pass - $329. Eldora $289. At $429 for a new pass ($409 for renewal) it's FAR from being the best deal in town. I really like Loveland but I'm looking at over $1200 in passes for the family (vs $800 for WP) absolutely no contest! (You can tell I'm pissed)

So renewal of a pass is now $409.... Really? Mario, you might not need a rake next year.

$500 for the Rocky Mountain Super Pass (WP, Copper, Eldora, + 6 days at Steamboat) for an adult and that comes with a free kid pass. $400 if you just do the WP pass (also includes a kids pass). If you have kids those are absolutely the best bang for the buck! Loveland pass is ~$430 used to be $380 for a new one. WTF?!?! Keystone+A-Basin is ~$300 IIRC Even with the epic pass you have many many options... We are really spoiled for choice.

As there have been discussions on what we prefer and what the state of the sport is a question has formed in my mind. What are the advantages of hardboot snowboarding? It's very obvious that the people here prefer hardboots. Very clear that people use them all over the mountain. But as a very green hardboot rider I tried to find the WHY ride hardboots. What are the advantages? Are they more comfortable? Ability to apply pressure to the edge and carve better? I find it a challenge and that's enough for me but right now softboots are way more comfortable on everything that isn't an easy green run. Some seem to prefer hardboots period. So why hardboots?

Does anybody ride through trees (okay, between trees - don't want the metroland police busting me here too :) on hardboots? I know you CAN but are mere mortals able to accomplish this feat?

Paint me green with envy I have fam over so will be absent this weekend. Hopefully you'll leave something left for next week

Sorry, ruminating. Let me clarify my rumblings. I had thought Bruce built a 174 nirvana that is exactly the same as a "regular" board (aka, one with .3mm titanal sheets) but he had replaced the .3 titanal sheets with .4 just to see the difference it would make. If this is not the case then all I had written above is moot. the 2/3rds thing. I was just noting on how much the difference in weight would be. A board made with 2 .4mm sheets would weigh the same as a board built with 2 .3 sheets AND another 2/3rds of a sheet. It's a significant weight gain and I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point that out.

This is what I like to ride Too bad I have to work tomorrow.... :(

How would I answer this? I like riding all terrain but on hardboots can only do green groomers at this point. Confusing.

Can you guys do a 1:1 comparison with a .3 board? It would be interesting to know the difference in stiffness (how far it bends with a specified weight) and the difference in weight (back of the envelope calculation estimates 180g difference for two .4 sheets). If you think about it, it's another 2/3rds of a sheet added to the board. That you say it felt damper somewhat strengthens my belief that the main factor in damping is weight.

Interesting read (for some ): http://skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2767&highlight=vibration+dampening I get a sense that the shape of the core is more important to damping than the materials. Titanal and VDS probably DO affect dampening but their major contributions would be in weight (which does affect dampening). What about Aramid (Kevlar)? It's slightly stiffer than FG and really really good in stretching. Compressive strength? Really only needed on the top side - can be done, again, with the correct shape. So what am I thinking about? An engineered shape (to reduce vibrations between 20 and 80 Hz). Layup to increase torsional rigidity (45 degrees top and bottom) with a unidirectional or a 90 degree layer of kevlar to help "pop". Maybe use some microfiber filler on top to increase compressive strength. (I do need a project for the summer...)

Big huge thanks to Angie and Jim. That ride was an eye opener. :) Great to meet you all.

Got me new aboots and ready to demo some boards!!! How were the crowds?