RCrobar

Hello The time, effort and money required to get this project up and running must have been incredible. Add to this that the talent of the team involved which if I recall correctly had one of the original NW boot designers on the team ... amazing! The boots look fantastic, but I am actually as excited about the possibilities of a new step in binding designed by hardcore alpine riders/racers specifically for the flex of NW boots, that don't accept a heel piece! I would imagine that this excellent team of designers is going to work hard to de-throne F2 bindings as the go to bindings for racers! New step in bindings are a product that I am looking forward to seeing clear pictures of:) Cheers Rob

Hi Lonbordin Yes, your original page 4 post reminded me of the video ... so the idea was just a bit of back up:) I too would like to hear how Sean came up with these angles ... I wonder if painters tape was involved:) Cheers Rob

Seemed logical to put Sean's width video and PDF in this thread, perhaps some haven't seen this before.

Hi BlueB I honestly don't know the answer to this question. I can say that in my time surfing the Pogo site, I have only seen the 25cm wide Longboard ... then the wider version was add some time later. Rob

Hi Buel, BlueB I am that heavier Canadian that purchased and loves the Pogo Longboard 180 in the pictures posted above. My wife, who is NOT a boarder at all, became a Bomber member and bought this board for my birthday. I may have spent quite a bit of time staring at Buels' Bomber post. Thumbs up and good Karma to Buel as he took phone calls from my wife and really helped her to pull off this purchase:) The Pogo Longboard 180 is a board that I ride often, particularly in true softer mixed all mountain conditions. The board has an 8m SCR, but this is actually an average as it has a variable SCR, perhaps an 8/10/9 if I had to give a ballpark guess. This board is said to be for either hard or softboots, IMHO the 25cm waist is too narrow for softboots with my size 11 land packers! I also feel the Pogo alpine-carving heritage in the flex; the flex between the tip and tail edge contact points are stiffer and are like a wider alpine board. I ride this board with F2 CarveRS bindings in the 45F-30R range. I am all of 220 pounds and I feel that I can lean into a turn or stand hard of the front foot in powder and the flex never feels like it can't handle it or that I am overpowering it ... the board likes the power. The board can also float .... the swallowtail Pogo heritage can be felt when floating in powder for sure:) The nose is excellent on this board, it is one of the features I like most. I took me quite a while to find the binding placement fore and aft where I liked the way the board responded both in powder and on the groomers. People ALWAYS comment on the shape and wood top sheet, I get many questions and compliments. I often explain that it is like a race board between the bindings with a powder nose on the front. I love riding this board several days after a big snow dump, conditions where you have a combination of good grooming and 30 or 40 cm of powder 2 or 3 feet from the trees on the edge of the run. You are able to power a hard bottom type turns on the groomer, then blast a big slashing turn off the lip of the powder where the rise up from the groomer to the top of the pow gives a weightless feeling ... and repeat all the way down the run! I feel fortunate to have this board in the quiver:) Cheers Rob

Hello Many times I have read guys stating that riding a wide board is more tiring then riding a narrower board. The explanation as to why is generally the idea that more leverage is created making it more tiring, makes sense I guess. The problem I have with this idea is that this has never been my personal experience. I can honestly say that in all my years of riding I've never thought, 'Man, my legs are tired ... I need to get a narrower board!' Also, the only time I can remember reading guys talking about a board being awesome, but very hard on the legs and tiring to ride, has been the new and narrow 18cm wide Madd killer. What also doesn't add up for me personally is the idea of softboot carvers generally use wider boards in the 26cm range, with soft boots that are much less powerful and supportive, but we don't seem to hear complaints about these boards being hard or tiring to ride. It seems to me that a board being hard or easy on the legs is a result of many factors, more than just being wide or narrow. This is just my personal experience, this may be different than yours. Cheers Rob

Hi Barry Sometimes powder can expose hard boot set up problems that are not quite as obvious when riding hard pack, issues that are not fully related to a riders preferred stance angles or hard vs soft snow. When riding powder you can't push 'down' when ever or where ever you want to, to keep your balance, like you can on the groomers. Try this test, just ride straight in the powder for a good long distance. You should feel no muscle strain, it should feel like you are relaxed, standing at the bar ordering another Cesar:) You might even be able to lock you knees straight, as a test, and just float down an easy slope; sort of like riding up a T-Bar Surface Lift and giving your legs a rest on the way up by locking your knee/leg straight. You will feel a balance point between your feet, like you are standing and balancing on a kids teeter totter. If you CAN'T do this, for example you feel like you have to lean quite a bit forward or backward to balance the Teeter Totter, you are forced to hold your legs in a strained position like an isometric 'leg burning' torture test. Your legs will burn out FAST! I personally find powder much easier on the legs then the heavy G's of groomers and big, hard, fast GS turns. Thought this might help you to look at your set up in a different direction. Perhaps boots that are looser, a more upright boot position, too big of a cant in the back binding, etc, etc. Hope this helps you enjoy the powder you are getting. Rob

Hi Zone I honestly don't have a clue why this would or would not work? I imagine the tip and tail hang up too high for the center to touch, but then you factor in soft snow and then the math is beyond me. I personally find that when it 'feels' like 90 degrees I crash into a superman slide down the hill ... which is probably more about my personal skill limitations as an old fart! Cheers Rob

Hi BlueB I think if I had to pick and actually use one of these guidelines as a teacher, I would probably pick the 2-4-6-8 for a couple of reasons. 1) The kids song sticks in the brain: "2 - 4 - 6 - 8 who do we appreciate, yeah Fin!!" Really easy to remember. 2) I also think that 20,40, 60 and 80 degrees is probably closer to what is happening; based on my super high tech painters tape system:) The only idea that I don't quite agree with you on is the 80 degree number. I recorded a lot of ECer's in the 82, 83, 84 degree range on a pretty consistent basis; there was a heel side vs toe side difference to this sometimes, I think this also should be noted. Cheers Rob

Hi Blue I agree with you completely Blue, I don't think 90 degrees is actually possible; but I am not an engineer! I think Cory's post explaining why 80 degrees is possible is bang on as well! The way I perceived the 30-60-90 idea was not a literal angle that can be achieved, more of a guideline for new to carving guys trying to figure out how much a boot can hang over the edge on a board that may be too narrow for them. Also, for people to remember things they need to be simple and 'catchy' phrase, this is also part of the 30-60-90 idea ... that's all. Rob

Hello: SnowboardJ, very interesting post. Several weeks ago I started a thread asking 'how far can a board be tipped over?' My hope was to better understand edge angle, board width and how it related to boot out. This proved to be a more difficult question to get a definitive answer. Being a certified long time hardboot nut-ball, I moved to plan B. What I did was get a 32" monitor and started to watch a LOT of Youtube videos of all kinds of carvers; hardboots, softboots, racers, extremecarvers, etc. By freezing hundreds of pictures on screen, placing painters tape on the screen on the angle created by the base of the board tipped up on edge and the surface of the snow, then using a large protractor ... I recorded WAY too many base edge angles to see if there was a pattern of any type. I feel there was a pattern, which lead me to this idea of couple edge guidelines: The 2-4-6-8 and/or the 30-60-90 guidelines for base edge angle as a way to better understand or predict 'boot out.' I found that skidders are probably tipping their board up on edge about 20 degrees. People just learning to carve a few turns tipped their board up on edge about 40 degrees. The aggressive softboot carvers, like the many Japanese videos around right now are pretty consistently tipped their board on edge around 60 degrees. and Extremecarvers and racers were often in the 80 degree range. This is the 2-4-6-8 idea. To simply things even more, the 30-60-90 seemed easier. 30 = new or easy carving, 60 = aggressive hard carving, and 90 = extremely hard carving. These guidelines could help a rider better predict boot out when carving. Yes, there were exceptions, but there was a definite pattern. Now, this comes back to SnowboardingJ's diagram explaining that edge angle on the snow does not influence edge hold ... which I agree with. When watching/freezing softboot carvers doing a fully laid out toeside extreme-type carves, their were a few examples I found where different riders had their bodies fully on the snow, but the edge angle from one rider to another could vary by as much as 20 degrees ... on a toe side turn only. Yet, both riders carved a great turn and got up and rode away ... just interesting. Boot out, the boards' egde angle with the snow all relates back to the original 'board width' question started by Winter Gold. For me personally it has lead me to experimenting with risers to make the numbers work. So, before all the engineers and kitchen physics engineers get their shorts in a bunch .... I am NOT claiming anything here!! Just having fun, just enjoying a good discussion, so don't take this post too seriously as I am not! It's raining a LOT here, this is what happens when it does! Cheers Rob Here I am a bunch of years ago, trying to figure out how to not 'boot out'

Hello: Here is a bit of information I thought might help answer a few NW questions: Below is a link to a thread from a few years ago regarding Northwave boots, I think it helps to shine a bit of light onto the why guys Love their NW boots. The guy who starts the thread is 'bad mouthing' the boots. People always like to take a shot at who ever or what ever the perceived top dog is:) http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/38292-northwave-point-950-yellow-the-holy-grail-of-snowboardboots/&page=3 Having used the Point 900's for over a decade now, I can say that I LOVE my boots. I can't say they are the best boot or that they are hands down better than any other boot ... but they really are very, very nice boots that have an excellent design. So, will the sun shine out your a$$ the first time you ride them ... probably not! The truth is it took me a long time to adjust the springs, cant, forward lean, tongue stiffness, etc, etc. Now that I have put in the time and have ridden them in a lot of conditions, I can't imagine not having them as they are a trusted old friend. Knowing what I know now, would I pay the big bucks for them ... yeah I probably would. Budgeting and saving the cash to buy one pair of the new NW951, even though they will probably cost me the price of 2 very good new boots from a competitor, is something I would do. If you don't like them, I am guessing they will be very easy to sell! Hope this helps Rob

Hello Surfing gave snowboarding the Expression Session, maybe surfing can now give us the Shed Sessions. Check out this recent video where surfers can go and 'sign out' a board to try. Snowboardings Shed Sessions could be like surfings 'Fish Fry' events. Maybe Oldsnowboads could help us out with this project:) I imagine riders could try a different board everyday for the rest of their life until they find the perfect single board that they want to ride:) So may boards, so little time! Cheers Rob

Hello Anyone who has surfed concrete, water or snow understands the magic feeling of simply carving a turn. Each board gives the rider a different and unique feeling when carving. Each board gives a unique feeling in a variety of conditions on concrete, water or snow. Each rider and shaper are often compelled to search for an improved or magic feeling when carving, a feeling that they dream about. I love this quote from the Korua builders: Happiness should lie in the process of finding your matching shape. In this process there is no right or wrong nor a goal, since every character has different forms and every form has different characters. May you never find your perfect shape. Enjoy the Search, enjoy your quiver! Rob

Hi Randy I pulled the information below from an old thread and updated it a bit to better suit your specific question. These 'flex-feel' ratings below are VERY subjective, but many forum members seem to agree most of the time about the flex of these bindings. Bomber, F2 and iBex bindings are all proven, so it becomes a Chevy vs Ford debate in the end. 1) F2 Carve RS (Toe Lever) - Softest, lightest bindings, very good for lower stance angles (closer to Burton vari-plate to give you a ball park idea of the flex). 2) F2 Carve RS (Step In) - A bit stiffer than toe lever RS 3) F2 Race Titanium (Toe Lever) (Closer to Burton/iBex) The ability to micro adjust the F2 Toe Lever tightness can make the F2 race feel stiffer or softer than a Burton Plate. 4) Bomber TD3 SideWinder (Toe Lever) - Slightly stiffer than the F2 Race FWIW, I think you probably would really enjoy the F2 bindings on your Volkl Spline 164 with the lower stance angles you mentioned (45-35) because of the light weight and softer side flex. I think many would say that Bombers smooth out the chatter better than F2. If you want to carve harder, get the Race Titanium. If you are looking for a more mobile All Mountain feel, many like the Carve RS. Cheers Rob

This is REALLY cool and exciting information! Once developed, will your step in bindings work with the original Northwave boots? Thanks Rob

Not sure if the video I provided below offers anything to this thread, other than what is old is new again for us older guys:) This video is of Mikkel Bang, guess he is a hot shot Burton rider. The video displays some nice powder riding at Baldface, something we all need with this slow start to the snow season. Mikkel is riding Craig Kellys' old board. The video starts out with a question to Mikkel, 'Mikkel, what board are you riding?' His reply,'I'm trying out Craig's old board, it's pretty insane. I am trying out his stance, actually I really like it. I might just chance my whole riding style now .. chuckles:))) Craig rode +27F, +12R ... one click and you are riding Craig's' set up Jack:) I often wonder why soft boot guys don't complain more about having to ride stance angles in increments of 3 degrees! Enjoy the movie while we wait for snow. Cheers Rob

Kuu Sports I haven't bought any supplies is quite some time, looks like they have a few new edge tools. This is a Canadian supplier with some quality products. The strong American dollar might make for an affordable purchase as well. http://www.kuusport.ca/products/snowboard-products/snowboard-tuning/snowboard-edge-sharpeners-and-files/ Cheers Rob

ToolTonic I have been using a Tooltonic from Switzerland for a few years and have been very happy with it. It is a high quality well thought out tool/system that can used for a basic or advanced tuning. I have a basic set up for quick edge work and have been really happy with the tool. The web site does not have English, so you need to translate to figure out the details. http://tooltonic.com/fr/sets-d-affutage/48-tuning-file-set-daffutage-6-elements https://www.youtube.com/channel/UComFYQGh9no_2yaLx9P0Qiw/videos Hope this helps Rob

Hi Softboot Not sure why, but from day one I have done any gliding board sport leading with my left foot. It seems like everyone has a buddy who golf's left, bats right or shoots in hockey right and uses his left hand for writing, kicks a ball with their right foot, but prefers the left foot forward for board sports, etc, etc. I'm sure we have all seen the fall forward or get pushed from behind to see what foot comes out first, then this is said to be the front foot. One aspect I haven't heard a lot about is the idea of person having a dominate eye. Years ago I took a skeet shooting weekend type course, at this time I learned that I was left eye dominate. I remember the instructor asking the students to make a circle with the thumb and forefinger and holding your arm straight out into the distance. Next you pick an object on the horizon and look at it through the hole your thumb and finger made. The final step is to keep staring at the object in the distance and slowly move your hand towards your face. Several people ended up moving there hand right over their left eye, others over the right eye. It was amazing how this worked! Trying to change eyes feels awkward like locking your fingers with the left hand on top vs the right hand on top. How does this apply to boarding, I am not sure. But I know that I prefer to look over my left shoulder, with my left eye leading the charge down the hill ... as I am regular foot. Maybe this will hold true with boarders or maybe it is the same as the guy to golfs left and bats right? Just an observation I found interesting. Cheers Rob

Hello This thread and the question of a maximum board angle was inspired more by softboot carving. I was researching a board purchase and asked a question of a very respected long time board company and was given helpful and thoughtful reply's from an employee that was a World Cup Board racer in the 80's or 90's. This is one of the tips he gave with regards to setting up a softboot carver. I have read many forum members here over the years tell new riders that you can get away with a bit of overhang when setting up your boots/bindings. This made me wonder if this 'bit of overhang' translated into a maximum angle a board can be tipped over. From the replies it seems like this is too complicated of a question to get a definitive answer. Thank you for your replies, they are appreciated. Rob

Hi Neil This comment of yours surprised me a bit, I 'think' I know why. When I think of boot out, I don't mean that the boot/binding has simply touched the snow. For me boot out means that the boot/binding has touched the snow causing the boards' edge to be lifted up and out of the snow, the edge of the board is 'kicked' out of the path it was carving and is no longer carving. I personally have more issues with 'boot out' in harder conditions. To illustrate, I'd would use a toeside EC turn as an example. When experimenting with different amounts of the toe bail protruding past the boards' edge and carving in hard snow I have had the following experience. I have done a toe side carve in good snow, good grooming that was on the softer side. When going back to check the carving mark left in the snow you can see that the toe bail has also left a small trench in the snow. On much harder snow, the same toe bail protruding set up has kicked the edge right out of the carve, causing me to go into a starfish, superman slide/crash. For me personally I find the boot/binding touching in soft snow very annoying, but much more of a problem in hard snow. Cheers Rob

Thank you for the comments so far. Maybe, for discussion sake, it would be easier to imagine that the rider is a super human, peak of their game racer, riding on ice as flat, hard and smooth as a freshly flooded skating rink where a super sharp edge is penetrating the ice by a few mm! For the record I don't believe that a board can be tipped to 90 degrees and carve. My gut feeling is that a board can get to the mid 80's and still carve. I am not really concerned about edge hold, more the idea of whether or not there is a finite number for the angle a board can be tipped on edge. I was hoping someone can calculate this to get a ball park idea. This edge angle curiosity is partially inspired by boot out issues and calculating just how much boot over hang you are able to have and still carve a hard turn with no boot out. I have read a few board charts that recommend a given boot size with a given board width that I don't completely believe they are accurate. Rob

What is the maximum angle a snowboard can be tipped up on edge and still carve a turn? At some point the tip and tail contact edge points, as the base of the board approaches a 90 degree angle in relation to the snow, would be too high for the center part of the SCR to remain in contact with the snow. Basically the tip and tail put the center of the board too high and it can't touch the snow and can therefore can not carve a turn. If a maximum angle can be determined, does this maximum angle remain the same for a board of 'similar' length and flex if one has a 13m SCR vs the other with an 8m SCR? The distance the from the snow to the center of the board changes as the SCR changes; can there be a finite 'maximum edge angle' for any given SCR? A stiff vs soft longitudinal flex, combined with very soft vs very hard snow would play a big roll in the maximum edge angle a board could be tipped up at and still carve a turn. I am not sure how to factor this into the question other than perhaps just look at quality solid firm snow with a nice quality HB carving board, that we all would love to ride. For the sake of a good discussion, maybe we should forget about ice and powder, etc as this could lead to a gun fight:) Thank you in advance for your thoughts. Cheers Rob

Hello Mr Metroland I edited my post to include that my boots are Mondo Point 29, size 11. Size 12 to 13 are some serious land packers:) I guess you would need a board with a 28cm waist width, some risers, a SCR that flares out at the tail and a bit of rear foot stance angle to really be able to lean your board over. I have a 193 Dupraz with a 28.5cm waist, I can ride it flat on the board with no risers and I don't get any boot out. I should mention that I am running about 9 degrees on my back foot, pretty flat by alpine standards. Cheers Rob PS - love your posts over the years, you constantly have me chuckling at the keyboard:)