RCrobar

Hi Sandy I decided to pull out my digital angle finder, that has arms that are about a foot long, to check how much difference there in the amount you can tip a board on edge when using the Gecko Stealth with the 1.5cm overall height vs bindings flat on the board. I set the bindings at 0 degrees and mounted them on the center of the rear insert pack to try get more consistent results. When I tipped the board over, I pushed and bent the sidecut to mimic a turn. Next I leaned the board over on edge as far as possible, each time I did this I went until the heel of the boot just touched the floor. I wasn't able to get my boots perfectly centered in the bindings, the boots 'stuck out' a bit more on the heel edge, so I only measured heel side turns with the angle finder. The angle finder was placed on the floor and the base of the board, which I think is quite accurate. I did this test for two board, a Pogo Long board 180 and a Swoard Dual 175. Here are the equipment specs: Dual - 175cm long, 10.5m SCR, 27cm waist width, KEY - 27.8cm wide at the center of the rear insert pack. Pogo Long board - 180cm long, 8m variable SCR, 25.3cm waist width, KEY - 26.7cm wide at the center of the rear insert pack Boots - I measured my K2-T1 boots, heel to toe, with a carpenters square. When measured this way they are 31.5cm long, they are Mondo Point 29 or size 11. Lean Angle Results: The Pogo with no plates, bindings flat on the board, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 40 degree angle. The Pogo with the 1.5cm high Apex Gecko, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 60 degree angle. The Dual with no plates, bindings flat on the board, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 48 degree angle. The Dual with the 1.5cm high Apex Gecko, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 68 degree angle. Using the Gecko plate simply as a riser gets you about 20 degrees more lean before boot out, this is huge IMHO! Add to this the way the Gecko smooth's out the ride and you have a pretty cool product! It also appears that 1cm of board width gets you about 8 degrees more lean before boot out. I wish that board manufactures would list the board width at the center of the rear insert pack as variable SCR and different amounts of taper have such a bit affect on board width where it counts, at the back foot! One of the things that I really like about the Gecko plates was how they smoothed out the ride and made a glass board feel much more damp, 'similar' to a metal Apline board. Henry of Apex explained to me that some guys really like a hard, connected feel. Others don't like the vibration and want some dampening. I found I preferred the softest bumpers and a ride that is damp and smooth. I felt completely connected to my board with the softest Gecko bumpers, so this was an easy decision for me. I realize that riders often want their ride as low as possible, which I completely understand. At the same time, I find I just get used to a ride that is a bit higher, this trade off is more than worth it to not get boot out when carving! The Stealth's are light weight, so I am convinced they will maintain the nimble and light feeling you get with softboots in general ... particularly in powder. Looking forward to comparing notes when the snow flies:) Hope this helps a bit! Cheers Rob

Chin Ramp - 30 years later.

Hi Sandy The timing of your question could not be better! Yesterday a new pair of XL Ride Ele Hefes and a set of the Gecko Stealth's arrived in the mail. I am hoping to use the Geckos for the exact reason you mentioned, no boot out with either a narrower board or a flat back foot stance angle. I also have a variety pack of the urethane Gecko bumpers and two different lengths of the insert extensions. This will give me the testing option of having the Stealth's low (1cm overall) and super hard Delrin bumpers or the Stealth's set higher (1.5cm overall) with the softer or medium hard bumpers. I still have to set up and adjust the bindings, fit the boots, install the Gecko bumpers, etc, etc. As soon as I have this completed, I'll take a bunch of pictures to show you how it works. I'll try to get this done over the weekend and post ASAP:) My gut feeling is that the Stealth's set up with the higher and softer bumpers will be PERFECT for smoothing out the ride and helping to eliminate boot out and be a great combo with your Flows and narrower Tankers:) Too much fun! Rob

Hi Sandy Thank you very much for your excellent reply and perfect pictures, super helpful and informative. The clearances with my boot-Flow set up are WAY tighter than yours, but I also don't think that mine set up needs to be that tight. Perhaps an XL Flow with the 2017-2018 foot bed will make it worth another try at the Flow bindings as they really are a cool design with great materials and construction. Thank you again for your time and effort in responding. Cheers Rob

Hi Slopestar, SVR I have a two questions about Flow bindings that I am hoping you guys may be able to help out with. 1) Would using an Extra Large Flow binding, with a Large boot, make it easier to get in and out of a pair of Flow bindings when the straps are adjusted on the tighter side? The idea being there would be a bit more play or room over all to get the boot in and out. The reason I ask this is I have a size 11 foot-Mondo 29, use a K2 M29 boot, and purchased a pair of large Flow NX bindings. The Flow binding size chart says that a large binding will accept a size 29, but it is at the very upper limits of what will fit; I had to adjust the Flow heel cup bolts/setting to the largest setting. The K2 boots fit the Flow binding perfectly, meaning there was maybe a skinny 1/8" side to side in the heel cup. Add to this that K2 boots tend to be bigger overall volume when compared to other manufactures of the same size, perhaps this contributed to my in-out troubles? 2) Slopestar, you mentioned that the 2017-2018 Flow Eva foot beds addresses the in-out issues. Could you explain what will change to address the in-out issues that some riders experience? Are the foot beds hard, softer, have a slippery surface, etc? Thank you for your feedback. Cheers Rob

Hello My parents were so patient and supportive, but in no way builders! I discovered that I had an interest in building via the desire to ride vert! A P.O.S. Black and Decker jig and skill saw, a few dull blades, some graph paper and I, with the help of 2 or 3 buddies, built the backyard arc in the summer of 1978. The October 1977 issue of SkateBoarder had an article called, 'On The Rampage: How to Build Your Own Ramp. The ramp in the magazine had 10' transitions, drawn with a string ... so that is what I did. After the dust settled, flat was added, etc., the Ramp was 8' wide, had 10' transitions with a foot of vert on one side and 3 feet on the other and eventually 8 feet of flat. I didn't have room for two platforms at the top, so the platform side hung over the fence and 4' in to the alley way and the 3' of vert went up the back of a garage. I don't think I had a building permit:) .... some pretty fantastic memories for sure! Cheers Rob

Great picture Neil. Here I am about the same time period.

Hello This thread could also be titled Love Letters to Skateboarding - by Jeff Grosso. If you haven't seen this YouTube skateboarding series sponsored by Vans, give it a look as it will be a trip down memory lane for many boarders of a certain vintage on this site; maybe you too were lucky enough to have parents that let you build an ARC sized ramp in your backyard! The ramp episodes really hit home for me. The young skateshop owners here in my hometown had heard of the 'Letters' but hadn't sat down to watch them, I encouraged them to do so. I think that those of you who are not into skateboarding at all might still find the boarding history lesson of obscure facts interesting as well. If you have the time, I would love to see pictures of the oldschool, or present day, vert riding. Enjoy the rest of your summer. Cheers Rob

The Cut - New Swoard Movie Here is the latest movie from Patrice and the Swoard guys, some very nice EC turns! Rob

Hi Agreed. I can't completely agree here as this has not been my experience. I agree you can get close ... but not as much power vs mobility, etc. I also feel way safer, with regards to ankle injuries, when carving with HB's in crappy conditions ... more than I do with soft boots. When I say across the board heel to toe, I mean a back foot at say 30 degrees. You seem to have interpreted my post to mean zero degrees, this was not my intention. For discussion sake I was imagining above 50 degrees in hard boots, below 30 degress in soft boots; that stance range in the between 50 and 30 is open to a lot of variables for both hard and soft. It would be interesting to see a BX racer in HB's with a 45F-30R or 40F-25R stance, in a course like BlueB described, especially if the interface had the mobility to handle the rollers and air. With angles in the mid 40's the front foot possibly generates more edge pressure via the side of the boot while the back foot in the 30's probably generates more edge pressure via the heel-toe, tongue of the boot ... so it is a mix of the two forces you described. Bottom line is I'll try any boot on any board as it's all boarding and fun ... this is why I have both hard and soft boots:) Cheers Rob

Hello One of the interesting stories that the founder of the SoulMotion web site tells, that West Carven provided, deals with his last back flip and how it hurt his body. A trip to Japan and a sore body made this 29 year old realize that he wanted to enjoy a style of snowboarding his body could maintain for years to come. The SoulMotion boards and just enjoying a nice turn seem to be the result. These days I like to say that my favorite two tricks are turning left and turning right, I would guess that this is true for a large portion of the overall snowboarding community. My point being that if 90% of riders are primarily turning 90% of the time, on and off piste, many would benefit from gear that was designed with turns in mind first and flying second. I agree with BlueB here, the course design just doesn't seem to require really powerful edging. A friend of mine 'worked' at this years Canadian SBX Nationals. Through an very informal and un-scientific survey, he estimated that 80% of the riders were using Burton soft bindings and 40% of the overall bindings used were Burton Cartels. I honestly believe that an old beat up pair of plastic Proflex plate bindings and an old $50 pair of Raichle 225's has more low stance angle, heel to toe, power then a set of new Burton soft boots and bindings. Modern SBX's don't seem to require huge power and will not give up their SB mobility. If SBX courses were set like this, Hard and Soft Boot-Binding design might converge and we really could see some cool new boots and bindings; designs that would be better for simply turning, and ultimately carving high up on edge, left and right. Cheers Rob

Mt. Baker Banked Slalom If you had to man a hardboot-plate binding demo booth at the Mount Baker Banked Slalom race weekend what NEW HB equipment designs would get all these softboot riders stoked to try a HB set up in this banked course? What HB plate set up would give the power-mobility low stance angle balance that would excite these Banked Slalom participants enough to demo some gear and want to try on the banks? If someone can figure out the answer to this question, we all will enjoy some pretty cool new equipment! Cheers Rob

Hi Eric Your last post is simply excellent information, presented in a less is more way. This type of information could save new riders so much frustration when just starting out in hardboots. IMHO this should be front and center in the 'Newbies Start Here' section of Bomber. The two statements above ring particularly true for me! Cheers Rob

I too am one of those old guys that has ridden this way for a long time. I guess one good thing about being old is that you get to see what is old become new again! West Carven thanks for posting the Soul Motion link as I hadn't heard of these guys, I really like seeing young guys pushing snowboarding in this direction ... cool! I don't need man made things to surf the mountain either, but it sure would be fun to ride that terrain with the people in the video! I see that Taro now has his own K2 boot and some Burton bindings with his Gentemstick colors, wouldn't if be nice to see some new hardboots and plate bindings that were inspired by builders that see and ride the entire mountain this way. I'm old, but hopefully young enough to see this come full circle as well. Cheers Rob