nils

Thnx, thought it was closer to freecarve / EC boards with often no taper...this might also explain the particular behaviour of race boards adapted to today's race format and slopes I guess..

21mm taper??? That seems a lot for a carving board...its what u put on a powder gun usually...?

Pat's right > first time buyer might want just an handtool from the shelf...but having started there too, i found the simple tools made it difficult and i was miserable each time trying to reach good tuning...angle and a clamp is not easy to use!

Of course I also use the tooltonic package of tools unfortunately they are not distributed in north america it seems..and the price is high ( swiss mechanical precision at work, one man business..)...most european world cup ski teams use them for final touches and on site adjustments.. I intend to use the discman coupled with the tooltonic rotofinish and use the technique explained on his site for a final 89°aka: edge at 87°, base at -1° with the discman, and then add 1° with the rotofinish ( what tooltonic calls the twin roto concept that allows for lighter sharpening touch eating less material each time..) here is a small sketch on how its done... Purpose is: - less material taken out each time - faster retuning Its done by using the diamond discs of the roto system, eating up very few steel each time

Happy with the discman Pokkis? Am considering getting one for next season...the base edge tuning is such a hassle to do when u have too many boards...

It appears strange that the base has a 2° because the factory is using a 0.5° setting on the base... I have checked it on mine on a wintersteiger new machine and operator confirmed it was .5..at 1° it started grinding. It is very difficult to measure the base angle unless you have a very precise machine btw.. As for settings, usually -1° is good on a multi purpose board, and I do 2° on the side to stay at 89° total on my Dual2. ( no detuning ) Nils

Butt sticking out carving is a crime!

My question was provocative of course > the answer to it is no > alpine snowboarding is already complex to explain and expensive...Unless there is rich gear fan that want to go directly that path of course. I did not say it ruins the sport, but it is not I think something that will give a clear image of the sport...( we launched wide carving boards in 2002 for about the same reasons because we thought skinny 19cm decks 65+ angles were too specific and scary for the non alpine rider to switch to..) Do plates and race boards work > obviously! Do they work for non racers > yes of course, Pokkis is a good example of a guy that rips on that kind of equipment.. N

I know how you can survive two days on those boards: it's called youth :)

And that is suppose to bring more people into alpine snowboarding?? ;)

happens :) as long as you don't snap it its fine!! By the way Petr send me a video he made showing various conditions carving on the ECPro gen1, shows you can with good legs and technique carve a board almost in any condition! The shape allows for softer turns in moguls too! )

Since it is quite difficult to design one board, I still wonder how OES can design such a wide range with so many construction options and have them all perform right... Anyway that model is a pure copy of the Swoard shape...Did not even try to modify the specs!...same goes for the 3 sizes 161-168-175......luckily it does perform like a pale copy does... I rarely, almost never, criticize what other brands do, but when the competition is obviously a rip-off and targets you directly, it's hard to stay silent...sry for the off-topic moment..

Very interesting.!!!thnx..we see the plates topic has a major link to racing topic..what i wonder is: is the riding technique /style dictated by the gear, or is it the opposite , both in the pursuit of faster lInes. Have the race designers evolved so to adapt and make straighter and straighter runs ? Maybe it will evolve to straight down races if it continues that way...(I wish someone invents a contest format with waterski slalom like turns to counterbalance today’s racing..could be possible with rfid chips or other captors..) Looking at the 2014 vid, at 1’34 we can see the rider clearly throwing the board away for the edge change.. My point in all this is that the plate trend is dictated by the racing gear, and unless riding uncomfy icy runs, i still don’t see why freecarving would require a plate...it seems to me since day 1 of plate trend that it’s the wrong direction for freecarving...also adding complexity, weight, clumsy feel, cost that will not be a good way to show non alpine riders to switch to alpine. It was the same thing in 1997-2002 when allostérique all available gear was 19cm wide at the most.

Am glad to see am not alone thinking that!! the boards almost don't bend! Check this pic, even in freecarving...the board is almost non bending in the middle...typical of the allflex style...but the design of the races has been going this way for many years so...( first with kessler rocker, then plates...)...the fun of carving is now lost to a down the line path with big legs to survive the G's N

Bringing topic back to life.... I have checked the slow motions of last Worldcup races and the massive use of Allflex plates... Now the boards don't even bend in an arc because they are blocked by the plate...and the design of the races has evolved to a less curvy path where the riders just throw the boards from side to side parallel to the slope's direction... ( I admire the skills/fitness/ training / stamina it takes to do it, but I find it not very sexy/stylish...) I think we are going again in the direction where plates are going to be less usable for the recreational riders that want to arc tight turns, or see a separation from racing plates and freecarver's plates ( for those who uses them ( still lots don't because they are heavy, too high...)).. what's your thought about it? Nils

We do advocate the egyptian riding style ;)..the rotation technique is basically an egyptian body position :)

thnx guys for your very wise and smart inputs! I agree with the fact that the way the load / distribution / way we ride explains most of the differences did not thought much of it previously. Early in the late 90's when Patrice and Jacques refined their EC technique before sharing it to us, they started from the available positions aka heavy front leg lift, and back foot canting for slowly, after many experimentation, decreasing the need for it as the technique got better and to what it eventually became. I also started EC with my old settings, feeling way better in the flat parts but as soon as the board bended, it felt not as comfy anymore and the backsides kept skidding...Its only when I got totally flat that I started to use better rotation and the push/pull that I began to enjoy and make it easier.. Width of the boards also reduced the need for lift/cant by having less painful angles ( 53-47 for me) As you say Alan, the position we have beeing totally flat is awkward for stand up positionand not totally ergonomic, it can be seen in the movies between the turns sometimes in the pull section of the turn even ( but the bent legs reduce the incomfort)..It is on flat slopes when you just cruise from A to B that you feel the need for lift and canting! Fortunately, the relative softness of the EC boards make them easy to twist and bend and makes it bearable...its a trade in between efficiency in the EC turns and comfort the rest of the time we make. Off topic: tightenting of bails : We had many exchanges with Fin during the TD1-TD2 years, and basically Jacques did not like them due to too much lateral rigidity and this is why the bindings J and P rode then had less tightness...The TD3 SW solved that issue! Also the reduced feet angles permitted by our wider board ( 22-23.5 for 168 and 175 models) induced big stress in the back bails that we kept breaking ( even the Ti models that have no flexibility). Patrice now rides the bindings he developped for freecarving/EC that has some lateral play and locks the bindings the proper way ( tight). Nils

Very interesting article Alan! Thnx Wondering what your thoughts would be on why we "extremecarvers" on wider/ softer flex boards ride flat ( no lift, no cant) and feel its better for our style of riding..? ( Same goes with why plates aren't that good for us..?) Nils

great news! May the carving forces be with you for this am sure tough times!

Wow let's hope Fin can find a solution... N.

Great vid! Do more of it! Impressive progresses too! Will be easier on a bit harder snow too so you can push harder without burrying to the knee!

When working on the northwave rebirth project in around 2005, i punched some numbers that made us abandon the idea pretty quick.. 1 size mold: circa 80.000 euros ( 100.000 USD) x 3-4 sizes needed: 320.000 euros dev costs / prototyping: 100.000 euros marketing / resellers network: 80.000 euros = around 500.000 euros needed to make things serious...maybe more and that does not include salaries, offices, expenses, taxes.. so am glad some courageous team took the effort to do it (Mountainslope)..Maybe they got those numbers lower.....let's say they make 300€ per pair...it means they will have to sell 1000+ pair each year minimum to get benefit in 2-3 years... It means there is very small chances we see new molds or new dev coming, because there is no room for two Mountainslope. FIS and competitors will stick to the .951, few will stay with UPZ and Raichle, and the rest of us will follow...we are however too few to have another sensed mind inject half a million euros in a new boot with the sales number that will be left after mountainslope secures part of the market.. The revolution could come from a softboot design that will provide enough stiffness to be comparable to what we need in freecarving on hardboots with a stepin system maybe? For now am just hoping Mountainslope injects a softer version aka .901 for us to replace the .900 for freecarving! Nils

Ok maybe it makes sense then..I still believe the same board with 10-11m would be a good thing because it would add some EC capabilities here and then...otherwise with short SCR you turn so fast its difficult to engage the next turn...but indeed we've all experienced that the SCR is kinda theorical because when u try 360's on a 13-14 m board you end up having a 4-5m SCR print on the snow..

haha the turn radius is just ridiculously short! Someone at the design room just never ridden a hardboot carving setup with low angles.....I am not sure what anyone would do on that board....with a turn radius of 11-12 it would start to get interesting..but 7.4m!

Just got the news of the passing of a great snowboarder and inspiration as well as a nice low key man...Jean Nerva passed away last night. He was 57, and developped a rare form of blood cancer that almost got him blindsighted in 2011. He joined a NGO called shades of love to provide sunglasses to mountain populations... https://shadesoflove.org/ I got into snowboarding after watching him and Regis Rolland in Canon Surf....also had the chance to meet him and he gave great advices at the creation of Swoard.. :( N. nice pics on this page: http://www.fluofun.fr/news/20604-salut-jeannot.html