Zcarver Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 ..well went out to Okemo today for my first day of the season. Beautiful sunny blue bird day. After my 12th run I notice something strange on the toe side going into my heel side. It was a pop and a crack. At first I thought it was my new boots on got 2 week ago. Well it was the TD 1 rear bail. I couldn't believed it. I busted 5 Burton race bails, which are known to happen, but never expected to bust the TD. I only use them for 4 seasons. It was a good thing I was riding very low to the snow. I was able to stop in time before getting real close to the woods. Just wondering if anyone else ever busted Bomber bails before. Any chance bomber can replace them? Will call them later. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Yikes, at least you were able to stop safely. Well if you bought those bindings in the last 5 years, you should be good. From the bomber store: 5 Year Warrantee & Full Parts Support: We trust our products so much, we back up the TD2 with the best warrantee in its class: 5 years from date of purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dragonsword5 Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Oh boy that must have been scary How do you bust a bail though? Is it your weight or aggresiveness of riding? I'm light weight (128lbs) so I don't think I have to worry about busting a bail. Any thoughts to the most common mishaps with the bails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Amazing! It can't be done! It can't be done!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Think of these things as giant paperclips. If you wiggle it back and forth enough times, in the same place, the paperclip will break. That's the explanation I heard after a friend of mine broke his TD2 rear bail last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Value of a single bail: $couplebucks Value of the customer love from replacing a broke bail: $priceless So, I bet you get a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voysey Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 i was riding with someone at killington last winter and they broke the front bail. the break was where there is a bend in the bail. The person carved down to the bottom of the mountain. I was amazed how good he cared with out the back foot being attached. what was even more amazing is that he found a replacement at a local snowboard shop. Black Dog at mountain Green i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Wow, this will be a hot topic for a while So glad that you were not hurt --Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 ..well went out to Okemo today for my first day of the season. Beautiful sunny blue bird day. After my 12th run I notice something strange on the toe side going into my heel side. It was a pop and a crack. At first I thought it was my new boots on got 2 week ago.Well it was the TD 1 rear bail. I couldn't believed it. I busted 5 Burton race bails, which are known to happen, but never expected to bust the TD. I only use them for 4 seasons. It was a good thing I was riding very low to the snow. I was able to stop in time before getting real close to the woods. Just wondering if anyone else ever busted Bomber bails before. Any chance bomber can replace them? Will call them later. :( Zcarver, how much do you weight? I thought that only bending is possible on those bails but I guess I was wrong. I think you should ask Fin to replace with Ti bail when you ask him to replace it. Even if you have to pay extra for the Ti bail, it's well worth the money IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 I broke my TD1 toe bail and Bomber had it shipped out before I could finish telling them what happened. There were no questions asked, I had the new bail in about 3 days. Thank you Fin, Michelle and anyone else involved. Give Bomber a call. I'd bet my mama's eyebrows that you will recieve a quick response and top notch service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Jacque Rilliet (of Swoard/EC fame) regularly broke his Bomber bails and after discussions with Bomber (TD2 are his favorite bindings by the way), Fin recommended the Ti bails. Seems that the rotation technique that the EC guys use puts a lot of lateral stress on the bails. Stainless steel starts to get a different patina on it after bending stresses are put on it so it might show up after inspection... then again it might just blend in with the regular wear patina. My feeling is that with the softer compound e-rings and the suspension kit it would put less stress on the metal bail parts and would make them last longer but that's just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 zcarver, any chance you could take a closeup picture of the area of the break? You can sometimes tell something about what happened to the metal by the way it looks across the face of the break (if it is from overload or fatigue for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCrider Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 hey Tony it happens they do break thought my Cateks were bulletproof changed to them after some Burton breakage but had two Catek bales go while in Colo last Feb. One week apart toe at Ajax then a heel at Copper. Fin set me up with some TD2s to last out my time there. Just called CatekJeff not to long ago and some fresh bales are on route. be good to rip some turns again maybe Sugarloaf Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 It happens.. yes We have seen many broken bails, due to the fact that we use less angles on the bindings, and also because the use of 0° discs makes us put even more leverage on the bails. Jacques has broken a few, Patrice maybe too, I haven't but just bend them ( assuming am not pushing hard enough, now they are in the right position and i think they will not break!). Even Ti bails bend or break. The only solution for us, with low angles and lots of leverage ( the binding is not intended to resist to those huge lateral efforts), has been by making custom made tempered steel bails. ( cost is huge, almost the price of the bindings!). We love the TD2 really, and don't consider the bail break a flaw, its just not meant for what we do; hence the custom bails we did. Ti is just lighter, but not much stronger than inox. We haven't tried the new cateks, but i assume the bails will be under same pressure. Especially Jacques will always break bails, because he barely close the binding tight ( doesn't "Clac" on the boot) because he likes the foot to be free in the binding! :rolleyes: ( we think he is crazy). solution to your problem: keep spares in the pocket ! N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcarver Posted December 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Oh boy that must have been scary How do you bust a bail though? Is it your weight or aggresiveness of riding? I'm light weight (128lbs) so I don't think I have to worry about busting a bail. Actually it wasn't scary, only because I was slowly down going into the next turn, then pop. I really thought it was my boot. It was a very smooth relaxing turn. The snow was perfect. I weight about 186 lbs as I really should be 172. I am aggressive rider, but since this was my first day of the season I was carving with medium speed, I was trying not to go so fast. For the record this is my sixth busted bail since I got involved riding plates back in 96. I really had only one scary incident during the 01-02 season. I was at Killington and discovered a very "rare mid-week" freshly groomed Outer limits. I was doing my low G's back and forth like an animal then on the toe side, A big POP and I roll over about 3 times to a stop. That was the last time I use the Burton Race plates that season. I will call fin today. Thank you for the info guys. :o I see a few other riders had busted their bails in the past too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Here's the discussion about the bails in French on the EC site. Link to Bomber TD2 alternative bail material discussion... Use Bablefish or Google Translation to translate (even though alot of it still doesn't make much sense because of the literal translations). Interesting discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 resume of the french post on ec forum ! Basically its aboout how to tune the bails so they do not bend or break. Everyone comparing inox steel hardness and tempered steel, and where to have it done for not too expensive. Conclusion: expensive ! N. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toddflyingdog Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 This is not that new of an occurance. The truly bad ass racers are finding every possible weakness in the TDs. Things break due to slight inconsistancies in materials. But mostly things break from wear, or excessive force. Four seasons seems like a pretty good run for your bindings if you are riding alot. My Bomber expert, Steamboat Winter Sports Team coach, Adam Casanova, formerly a World Cup gate racer, has put a full year of days riding (365) as the life span of TD's. Granted few of us carve as hard as he does. So I can't say I've ever worn any Bombers out! One last thought... If you put enough force into the system something has to give. Now this can be the core of your board failing, very bad Or it could be boot failure, also bad But far worse it could be your bones fracturing last it could be your Bombers failing and there are many parts to fail here, but luckily just the bail fails, and that is easily replaceable It doesn't seem like sudden force had anything to do with this instance, but its just my opinion. Does anyone else recall how common binding problems are when dealing with plastic? Relying on my softies makes me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sic t 2 Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 I weight about 186 lbs as I really should be 172. I am aggressive rider, YIKES !!!! Glad you are ok Zcarver !!!! Aggressive? Zcarver? noooooo... lol I've been snowboarding for 11 years and you are by far the most aggressive hardbooter I ever saw ride! And maybe the most enthusiastic too. If I were you I would replace your other 3 bails. This is metal fatigue. You ride hard, you ride fast and you ride a lot. You just plain wore them out. Again, the paper clip analogy as mentioned above. So replace the other 3 paper clips. They are all tired now. the old man, Sic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Pleased to hear that you're okay, and no animals were harmed in the making of this post. It's good to know that at my current rate of riding, my new to me TD1's should last me for about 24 years. Bonus!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toddflyingdog Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 have to agree... sounds like you are a ripper and are lucky that it was at low speeds. replacing all your bails is probably very smart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcarver Posted December 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 YIKES !!!! Glad you are ok Zcarver !!!! Aggressive? Zcarver? noooooo... lol I've been snowboarding for 11 years and you are by far the most aggressive hardbooter I ever saw ride! And maybe the most enthusiastic too. If I were you I would replace your other 3 bails. This is metal fatigue. You ride hard, you ride fast and you ride a lot. You just plain wore them out. Again, the paper clip analogy as mentioned above. So replace the other 3 paper clips. They are all tired now. the old man, Sic LOLOL Thanks for the comments old man. :rolleyes: Yes I will replace the other bails as well. There is an old saying when it comes to bindings, When one bail fails they all will fail. I also replace my dying Raichle 325 this season as well. This embarrassing to show, but the picture below should make you laugh. You can't see it, but the right corner of the heel is crack. I made an aluminum brace to hold the section together. Please note: The repair survive 89 days of riding during the past 3 seasons. But as I look back I just should of brought a new pair of boots. Paying a few $$ for new boots is a lot cheaper than the Hospital bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Ever thought about the possibility that the aluminum on the boot caused more stress on the bails?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 All metals have a fatigue life. If you put metal through enough stress cycles it WILL break. Bomber uses a very large bail diameter so they take longer to fatigue and break, BUT it does happen. You shouldn't take any peice of your equipment for granted you should allways check your bail for stress cracks, nuts and bolts for the right tension, boot for crack, loose riviots, screws etc. It amazes me that this is such a surprise to people, all equipment will break eventually. I know many very light riders who have broken Bomber bails. This isn't saying Fin makes crappy bails or he needs to make them beefier, it is expected of a product used in extreme temps and constantly beat up on the trails. Don't take things for granted and replace parts when they need to be replaced, at the very minimum inspect your equipment often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Don't take things for granted and replace parts when they need to be replaced, at the very minimum inspect your equipment often. Well said Phil! Something I've gotten into the habit of doing for the last couple of seasons. Even a couple of times yesterday, in between runs, I checked my heels/pins, bails and made sure bindings AND center disks were cranked down. Each time, took me all of 2 - 3 minutes. Checked it again after I got home NOT a heavy person, NOT a WC racer - but I know I'm generating some forces on that gear, esp. at higher speeds. Even I, at the whopping 155 lbs, will wear out my TD2s, or heels, or whatever :( Z - glad there were no injuries man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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