Starting tykes on skis: leash or no leash?

[Jack M]

We'll be starting our 3yo on skis this winter, and I've always had an aversion to those leashes, but I think this could be an interesting discussion. What say you?

[trailertrash]

i say no one under 21 allowed....

[Mike Tokar]

I've used a leash on 2 of my 3 kids. I wouldn't think of using it all the time, but it's nice to be able to pull in the reins and stop them from going into a tree. It's certainly not a necessity, but made things easier for me for the first few times I had the kids on 'real' slopes and didn't have the patience to hang out on the school hill or feel like paying for a lesson.

Obviously, the kids have to learn how to stop themselves, and if they're used to the braking coming from a parent pulling a leash all the time, they won't learn, so I'd leave enough slack so they have a real sensation of skiing on their own.

If you want mine, I'm done with it and will send it your way. You'll probably be done with it after 2-3 times on the hill, and can pass it along to some other parent.

BTW, using a leash on a skiing kid while riding a board is a bit tricky. I have an old set of Bigfoot skis that clip into my snowboard boots. They work well for riding backwards and all the other maneuvers you have to do when out with the kids.

Good luck.

MT

[Phil]

I used to give harness lessons to young children. I am assuming that the equipment is the same.

The harness is NOT to stop them, it is to steer them. There should be a loop on each side of the child's harness. Then there should be a strap that goes around you and connects to each side of them. Gently pulling on one side helps them to turn. This helps them get the idea of going side to side and making round turns to control speed.

If you use it to stop them, as stated above, they really are not learning anything.

When my kids are old enough, I will be using a harness.

[BlueB]

No leash, please!

All it would teach the kid is that it was ok to ski without controlling the speed. First thing the kid needs to learn is to walk/slide on one ski on flat ground, than on 2 skis, than to STOP. Without mastering this art no further progress can be made safely.

Then, make it fun. It speeds up the learning process. When you see the kid bored, switch to snowball fight, or any game you can think off, or just stop the lesson. Pushing too much can make kid hate the snow forever…

Using the “magic carpet” and pro kinder-garden instructors for first few hours/days would speed up the process a lot. I wasn’t a believer in this theory until I started to work as a kid’s instructor at Cypress Mountain. We work miracles, sometimes. The youngest kid ever was 2 years old (this is an exception, normally 3yr is youngest considered to be able to learn). We had couple of 5yr old girls starting as absolute beginners and skiing safely at green lift chair in the 3rd hour! But then, every kid is different, you need to play it by ear…

Good luck!

Boris

[mirror70]

Leash? What's that for?

"Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn."

It worked for Lane Meyer.

[Mike T]

My 3yo will also most likely start on skis this year. (She started on plastic skis last year and LOVED them - 20-foot runs of point-it-and fall is as far as she got)

I was actually wondering about the little thingies that hold the ski tips together - anyone got experience with those? Some of the ski instructors at Bachelor swear by them.

[nils]

Started both my two olders without leash, but exactly as Blue B stated. ( also added those plastic compas that hold the ski tips together with great results, but you have to get rid of them quite fast as soon as they manage turning).

My 7 yold daugther is now kinda impressive, and 4.5 yold boy is about to follow us almost anywhere ( end of next season i guess)... I'm waiting until they are "fluent" with skiing to put them on a snowboard...

Have fun its a great reward to watch your kids on the snow with you :)

Nils

[Tommy D]

I started skiing at 3 years old and never used a leash. And now look at me!!! I'm snowboarding! :D But I'll always be a skier at my core.

I vote no leash, because I've seen kids/adults/random skiers get tangled in the lines. Also, I do not believe it helps promote good form. Yeah, sure, what kind of form will a 3 year old have? None, I know, but I've seen leash kids with all their weight over the tails, and I've seen non-leashers of the same age more or less centered on their skis.

As a teaching aide, I do not think leashes are a good idea. From the beginning, teach the kids basics (read, snowplow/wedge) on easy (read, flat) hills and then take them where their skill allows. I remember my dad used the 'between the legs' teaching technique with me, but on hindsight, I probably would have progressed faster with greater confidence had I not been toted around the mountain.

It just occurred to me: What do leashes do for the confidence of the kids? Would a 3 year old be more confident learning without a leash, or with one? Hmmmm...

[Phil]

Blue B - We do everything that you stated at our mountain and I think that all of those things are great.

However, have you tried a harness? I never said that the harness was a substitute for teaching the important things like stopping. I just believe that it is an easy way to help a child experience more of the mountain and learn to turn and control speed in the process.

I have taught both ways and the harness is just my personal preference. Maybe I should have said that in my first post. I don't think that they need to miss out on any part of instruction just because they are on a harness.

[Mike T]

It just occurred to me: What do leashes do for the confidence of the kids? Would a 3 year old be more confident learning without a leash, or with one? Hmmmm...

Tommy D, methinks you've hit the core issue in this discussion: which way will your tyke like it best?

I have a feeling I'm going to wind up having tip connectorsd and a harness available but only use them if my daughter wants them. I can always return unused goods.

My daughter has one of those kiddie harnesses for jut walkin' around town. I was SO against them until I realized there were some situations where we'd have to hold onto her if she wasn't wearing one, but she could walk around in a harness. Examples: hiking on certain trails, visiting the construction site of our new house, etc. She LOVES being able to poke around "on the harness/leash) in places where it would be too dangeous otherwise. If a harness allows her to get started on skis in a better way, why not?

[ak_rider]

from my experience teaching skiing, arrrggggh they made me, i would not recommend a leash. I would definately go with an edgy wedgey(those things that keep the ski tips together). Children that young don't really have the muscle to keep there skiis in a wedge. This allows the child to learn to turn without the fear of them shooting off straight down the hill. even if they don't complete theirs turns the're still in a wedge. It will not completely stop them but it will slow them down enough. Also, this allows the parent to follow behind on a snowboard, yaay, or skiis. Have fun.

[Guest Randy S.]

I've now taught two kids to ski. They are now 7 and 10 and are pretty good skiers. Here are my thoughts.

First for Mike T. If you get that thingy that holds the tips together, they won't be able to walk on their skis through the line and stuff. This means you have to push them everywhere. Instructors don't mind this since they have to push them everywhere anyway. It does prevent them from crossing their tips and keeps them from straight-lining it.

Leashes: I tried it with my first one. I used it one or two days and junked it. Not worth it. The only thing it is good for is lifting them onto the chairlift. You get better control just doing a snowplow around them, or a reverse snowplow in front of them.

One important thing. If you don't already have skis, get a pair. It is a major PITA to teach kids to ski if you are on a board. I bought skis when my son started to ski just so I could teach him. I don't use them for much else, but they were worth having. If you hate skiing, then just buy junkers, or get a pair of those little mini-skis on ebay that work with snowboard boots.

Also, sign them up for kids camp. If its well run, they'll have a blast and probably learn better from a coach than from you. Sometimes it is just easier for someone else to get them to listen. Plus they know how to push your buttons, they're less adept at that with a coach.

Have fun. I loved teaching the kids to ski.

[mellowjonny]

Both my kids were on Razor scooters at 20 and 22 months of age which i think really helped with their balance. I used a hola hoop to teach both on skis--it gives them something to hold onto and still use there own balance. The youngest this year at 28 months did top to bottom at Park City twice one morning by himself (but we all know Park city has about as much vertical as the parking lot at the local shopping mall) eh Tille/bordy/fell.

[skatha]

My kids both picked up skiing without the leash, but I mainly let them ski in a very controlled area-you know, no 50 foot side-of-the-mountain dropoffs....

As for skiing with your tyke between you knees-I saw a dad at WP with his daughter on a board between his skis. I wanted to stop him and say that she'll never get her edging down if you don't let her by forcing her to ride flat on the board-but what do we know???

I agree with harness maybe encouraging you to "sit" on the skis. I taught myself how to carve with skiblades last year-the hardest thing was to remember to lean into it....

[csquared]

I don't think there is a right answer to this one. Kids respond differently to different teaching methods.

My sons were more responsive to the leash. What seemed to matter most to them was that they could go fast the minute they stepped on the skis. They had very littly attention span for working their way into things methodically. On the plus side, it gave them an early feel for how the ski behaves once you get it up to speed without the painful and ego-destroying crashes. This made the eventual transition to parallel a little smoother. Weaning them off the leash was another matter. This led to some painful days but I felt the leash was a progressive way to start them. Neither of my sons skis any longer having made the jump to the board.

My daughters never needed the leash. They were happy to be walked around at the bottom of the hill for a few hours until they got the feel of the skis. Then I spent time talking them through turns but never physically restraining them. However, this had its limits as they are twins and it was getting difficult to give both the amount of attention required early on. Signed them up for lessons after two days and the instructor threw them directly on the j-bar by themselves without further ado. The second day of lessons they were at the top of the hill on the chair. Neither of my daughters skis now and that makes 4 kids on boards.

Girls are eminently more teachable in my experience. They don't seem to care about going fast or looking cool. I think they can get intimidated sometimes by the 'gross motor' activities but when they are confident, they progress quickly. Does this mean boys=leash and girls=no leash? That would be too simple. I guess I am trying to illustrate that both approaches can work well depending on a child's character.

This reminds me that the thing I belatedly realized that I hated about skiing was that it was so canonical. There was always a "right" way that everything had to be done irrespective of circumstances. The thing I love about boarding is that there is no aboslute right way to do anything. There is only your way.

[ar(angel]

It's your call, but my son learned to ski at 3 without a leash. I agree that each child will respond differently to the method you end up with, but with your experience, I can't see you steering them wrong either way.

Good luck,

Paul

[BobD]

We rushed out and bought a leash for our daughter's first day. It was the only day she ever needed it. She had just turned four. More for our comfort than hers. It sits on the shelf - used once.

[Art]

My 4 y/o started with a leash/harness at 15 months. At that age he wasnt really skiing, just having fun going down the hill behind the condo. With the harness I could run behind him and then tow him back up the hill. We did this for a few days at the end of the season and it was more of a family fun/play time in the snow. He loved it. The next year we went to the magic carpet area of our local hill and had him ski towards targets like tunnels and the goofy things they had set up. When he saw the chair lift we could not keep him away from it. When we made our trip to SV (he was about 2 1/2) we took him to dollar and continued to use the harness to control his hips and turning. He was happy he got to go on the chair and we continued to use the harness, not to control him but to be able to prevent other people from running into him (he liked to look at the scenery and didnt get the concept of others on the hill yet) Also it was an extra handle to hold a figety kid while on the chair. It was easier for my wife (skier) and i (boarder) to share the duties that way. last spring at 3 1/2 he was ready to lose the leash. We knew he should get some instruction from somebody other than us so he was enrolled in a group lesson. With a little research we knew he would be the only student and were able to save a few bucks. The instructor started in the flat magic carpet area but after 1 run realised he was ready for the the chair un-encumbered by parents or leash. At the end of our trip he was good for 4 runs, making turns and wedging to a stop. On the other hand, our 1 yo is already much mor aggressive and coordinated than his big brother. I doubt we will need the harness for him except to priotect the other skiiers :D I think it can be a valuable tool for some but not all. Also, before we even left the house, my oldest walked around the house with his plastic skis making lots of noise. He was able to get used to having them on his feet and the fun factor for him was great. When he went to boots and bindings, we did the same thing. He already is a gear hog and will dig out his helmet in the middle of summer and pretend to ski. Sorry, a little OT but as others have said, different ways to have fun days.

Also, there are tip connectors that attach to the skis with velcro and a clip in the middle so they are easy to undo for the chair, or come off completely when they are not needed. I dont recommend the type with the little thumb screws as the dont seem to stay on the skiis. Our harness will also fold into a little pouch/waist pack on him so if you dont need it at any time you just stow it and let them go!!!!!!!!!!

[kinpa]

First, let me say..... Thanks Jack for starting this topic :)

Here's my experience..... Having been a skiing and snowboarding instructor for about 10 years when I found out I was pregnant, of course, I couldn't wait to get my little one on snow and I only hoped that she would love the winter sports like I do! She was born in October, so the first winter was only one warm weekday with not too many people around carrying her in a front pouch under my jacket. She was about 3 months old. I don't know how much she got out of that, but she look at the chair lift especially as it bounced over the guides at the poles!

The following season, at about 15 months, I took her between my legs on her plastic skiis. My husband doesn't ski, so he was happy to stay in the logde with her in between her few runs. Several times that year we'd ski some, then I'd put her in the backpack to go for a ride. One time I came into the lodge with her on my back and my husband was laughing. I asked what? then I found out she was sound asleep in the backpack!

The next year, at about 28 months, we had a few good days with her on the H-Bar skiing next to me with a tip-lock (almost all my teaching aids came from www.kid-ski.com if you want to check them out!). She was off the plastic skiis this year (although she still loved to play with him at home on the carpet). Her boots were like the Nordica Nordy boots (soft in the back so a child can't lean back and brace against them). She did great when we were able to get to a ski area with a chair lift in the beginner area. She wasn't strong enough to stand between my legs on the rope tow and I wasn't strong enough to carry her and hang onto the rope tow at the same time. I saw lots of big, strong dads carrying there kids up the rope tow... made me jealous! We also used the kiddie lift from that website also. Much easier for me to get her on the chair lift and to pick her up if she'd fall.

So last year, at age 3 she still used the Kiddie-Lift and a tip-lock. We used the wedge-lock some, but she didn't need it very long. Also, it was hard to use on the terrain we had available because she kept getting stuck. We used the harness/leash too. I like the one on this site because it sits on the child's hips which is good for steering. Some of the ones that ride higher, on the chest, would tend to pull the child back more, I'd think. The reins can also tuck into the pouch. We didn't use it all the time, but having it on her gave us the security to explore some new terrain. If things got harry or she got tired, we'd pull it out. I can't stress enough that a leash should NOT be used for speed control. One place we skiied has trees on a green slope. Most of it wasn't to steep so she was able to do some on her own, I just had to keep an eye on her so she wouldn't get to close to the trees! Anyone who has a 3 year old knows that they get distracted easily and don't always look where they are going! There was one steeper section where we'd pull out the leash. She also got her first lesson in a "Kinderski" program. It was the only place I knew of that would take 3 year olds into a group lesson. Having had such a poor season, it really wasn't very crowded. The first day she had a private lesson and the second day there were two other kids. That was the first time she really skiied on her own on the beginner hill. (Still used a tip-lock). It was so cool to her that she was better than the other little girl in her class who never had skiied before! The teacher helped the other girl, then my daughter would ski behind them!

Our last few days on snow last March was at Big Sky. She was able to get some more lessons (good for her to get away from mom!). For the 3 year olds, they first have to do a "Small-Fry Try" which is a half hour private lesson before they can get placed into a group lesson. She did ski some with me off the leash, but I worried about her making a wrong turn. I'd still stay behind her because she's not great at judging her speed to know when to make pizzas and when to make french fries! Quite often she'd need a push. Only once or twice she started heading down the wrong way and I'd have to scoop her up! With the 2 feet of fresh snow that weekend, there were bumps everywhere and the snow was pretty slow. Even though the bumps were small on the slopes we were on, they were enough to make her stop quite often tipping her over! (Her excuse to get a bite of snow!) The last day we rode the Gondola 4 times (she loved that!) and skiied a beginner slope down. By the last run, she skiied without the tip-lock and didn't even get her skiis all tangled up! (We still used the leash) The kiddie-lift was nice to make the step up into the gondola too.

I can't wait for this winter... I think she'll pretty much be skiing on her own. IF I worked at an area with a chair lift in the beginner area and a day care on the mountain, I'm sure she'd be skiing on her own by now.

I can't stress enough with all those teaching aids to read the directions (mine came with a video) and try to follow the tips. It's too easy to use things incorrectly or to let the child use them as a crutch and become to reliant on a teaching aid. Children learn especially well from muscle memory. Get the child into the position so their muscles can learn what it's supposed to feel like. So, you can either ski backwards holding their tips together and pushing thier feet into a wedge, OR use a tip-lock and/or wedge lock for the child to learn the position. Which sounds more fun for you????

Anyhow, YES each child is different and what works for one, may not work for another. Just wanted to share my experiences with my daughter. :)

Kathy

[jdgang]

Dont even deal with the skis just start the kid on a snowboard

[Neil Gendzwill]

Dont even deal with the skis just start the kid on a snowboard

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a kid or who has never tried to teach one. It would be one freakish 3 year old that could manage a snowboard. Even skiing is not for all of them. I tried my kids starting at 3 but for both of them it wasn't until they were 5 or 6 before they really started to enjoy skiing and want to get out there. I second the recommendation for pro instruction for kids. Especially the daycare/ski school combo where if the kid is not doing so well they can just go back to the daycare and have fun. All of the people we've dealt with at ski hill daycares/ski schools have been great with kids and much more patient than any sane person should be.

[Art]

Kathy, sounds like we had a similar experience (minus the teaching experience). We have been very happy with the Kid-Ski products. My boys will be able to snowboard when they show us they know how to turn on skis. Also, I want them to experience the teachings of other instructors, learn mountain ettiquete (from somebody else as well as ourselves, I think it adds credibility that the parents aren't just making it up to be a pain in the ass), and be well rounded. When they can exercise the judgement needed to be safe on the mountain, they can have the experience they want.

[Strider]

I've taught skiing(and snowboarding) since 1990 and have a lot of experience with kids. I agree with the people who said it all depends on the child. My son started last winter at 22 months and we didn't use a leash. The leash can be helpful, but you need to know what you're doing. Too many parents just use it as a brake which is obviously not a good thing.

The edge holders on the other hand can be invaluable. At 23 months my son was too weak to turn the edges and tips in on his own. With the tip hoilder on we were able to teach him to turn by the second day on snow. If you get one, I recommend getting one that snaps apart as well. This way they can still walk around and get on the lift, and you can experiment with parrallel skiing for a change of pace.

A few other things to consider. Most importantly is attention span. The minute thye want to stop and do something else you should. They will probably want to come back and ski more, but if you make them do it they will just shut down. Also, if you have one that wants to go go go make sure to take some breaks becasue thye will be tired. Try to get boots now if you can and have him walk around the house with them on like a game so he is used to the feel of the boots. Hope you have a great time with it

[jdgang]

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a kid or who has never tried to teach one. It would be one freakish 3 year old that could manage a snowboard. Even skiing is not for all of them. I tried my kids starting at 3 but for both of them it wasn't until they were 5 or 6 before they really started to enjoy skiing and want to get out there. I second the recommendation for pro instruction for kids. Especially the daycare/ski school combo where if the kid is not doing so well they can just go back to the daycare and have fun. All of the people we've dealt with at ski hill daycares/ski schools have been great with kids and much more patient than any sane person should be.

actually your are right on one point i do have a kid (going to turn 2 this saturday) but I have not tried to teach one yet. But this winter I did meet a person who was trying to teach her 3 year old how to snowboard. I did not think this could be done either but as I watched at the base of the kiddie hill the kid was getting the hang of it. I bumped into her later and asked if she was a teacher and she said no and if her son was enjoying it and she said yes. I guess it really does depend on the kid.