Vv. Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 I am reading "The Carver's Almanac" (https://www.alpinecarving.com/binding_setup.html) and I have a question about "setback": "After you shift your weight forward to initiate a turn, your center of gravity should be over the apex of the sidecut. In order to achieve this geometry, the midpoint between the two bindings must be set back from the apex of the sidecut to compensate for the forward weight shift. The apex of the sidecut is the center of the effective edge, not the center of the board length. This setback is typically 2-4 cm. Board makers shift the two insert packs rearward by this amount, so that you can mount your bindings symmetric to the insert packs and get the right setback. Some manufacturers, like F2, specify on the topsheet pre-marked stance positions so that you know where to mount the bindings to achieve the recommended setback. If there are no pre-marked stance positions, mount your bindings symmetrical with respect to the hole pattern. However, binding setback has a large impact on carving performance, so it's something you should spend some extra time tweaking: Incorrect binding setback can cause bad habits. If you have too much setback, you will find yourself breaking at the waist to get your weight forward. If you have too little setback, you will find your self riding the back of the board all the time." In particular, about this; "If you have too little setback, you will find your self riding the back of the board all the time." I thought, if we have too little or no setback, we move our center of gravity to the nose of the board and we have to find ourselves riding the nose of the board. Could somebody, please, explain to me why moving our center of gravity to the nose, we will find your self riding the back of the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 58 minutes ago, Vv. said: "If you have too little setback, you will find your self riding the back of the board all the time." It's not explained very well. One would feel that the board doesn't rude right, thus would subconsciously move weight back to compensate. With enough setback, one can ride centred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Vv. said: Could somebody, please, explain to me why moving our center of gravity to the nose, we will find your self riding the back of the board? I think it is saying... Manufacturers specify the amount of setback the board was designed to be ridden more or less centred/balanced. If you set your bindings, let's say arbitrarily 4cm to the nose, of this designated setback, then you will constantly feel like you need to shift your weight towards the tail 4cm to compensate and to make the board ride the way it was designed to be ridden. Edited April 3, 2021 by daveo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 should also point out there is a different kinds of setback.... setback on sidecut bindings arent centered on the center of the sidecut setback on board but centered on sidecut here the board is built with a longer nose than tail but the bindings are centered on the sidecut. you can get mixtures and variations also depending on if the boad is directional, true twin, has a standard sidecut or VSR ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 And... we all weigh our feet differently, so we move the bindings forward and back to find our individual sweet spot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vv. Posted April 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 Thank you very much for your explanation. If it was just a theoretical question for me, I would decided that this statement "... you will find your self riding the back of the board all the time." is a mistake or a bad explanation and ignored it, but, along before I found this article (and heard about setback) , I noted, that when I did a turn, the board was trying to jump out from under me and I literally found myself riding the back of the board and I constantly feel like I need to shift my weight towards the NOSE of the board. When I found this article, I checked my bindings set-up and it has zero setback - the midpoint between the two bindings is on the center of the effective edge (effective edge - the distance between two points where the board touches a flat surface - please, correct, if it is wrong). So, it fully corresponds with what the article says. The problem is - I do not understand this effect from physics point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 @Vv. Which binding inserts on the board are you utilising? Got a photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 "In my opinion" How your particular board board rides whether you are centered or not is best learned on a very gentle flat slope much like the unloading zone on a well designed lift exit. If you can't initiate a turn with your front foot your too far back on the board. If your board tracks straight with proper posture on a small incline your as close to perfect as most people get. If the board hooks left or right your binding) boots are off center. I don't mean off center mathematically but off center of balance (mass) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vv. Posted April 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 3, 2021 Report Share Posted April 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Vv. said: Hey Slava! That's creative with the bindings! Few days ago I found a bail that might fit on your other, broken Blax. I hope the garage doesn't "swallow" it again until the next season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted April 4, 2021 Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 7 hours ago, Vv. said: I noted, that when I did a turn, the board was trying to jump out from under me and I literally found myself riding the back of the board and I constantly feel like I need to shift my weight towards the NOSE of the board. If this tendency is most pronounced on your toeside turn, either the board is too stiff for your body weight, you have the bindings mounted too far back, or you're exerting unintentional leverage against your boot cuffs. 7 hours ago, Vv. said: The problem is - I do not understand this effect from physics point of view. The board is a spring. Once you load it by way of edge and glide, it will try to return to it's discharged state. If your bindings are mounted too far back(or if the board is too stiff), it will try to unload forward, as though someone is pulling the rug out from under your feet. Ideally, your neutral position on the board will have your body weight slightly ahead of the dynamic center of the board length, so that when the board bends, you can easily maintain that bend by keeping the board, in effect, 'behind you' through the majority of the arc. If the bindings are mounted too far forward, the board will be too reactive; either twitchy, or prone to spin, rather than track. This registers to the body as instability. Your nervous system prefers stability, and will employ whatever mechanisms are available and effective to restore some form of equilibrium. In this case, you'll involuntarily shift your weight back until the board is sufficiently calm in it's interaction with the snow. Geometric centering of the bindings is fine as a starting point, but don't assume that's where they actually belong for your particular needs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vv. Posted April 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 Hi, Boris! It would be good to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vv. Posted April 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: If this tendency is most pronounced on your toeside turn, either the board is too stiff for your body weight, you have the bindings mounted too far back, or you're exerting unintentional leverage against your boot cuffs. It happens, when I am trying to get a low position on heelside turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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