Help figure out my SL board that probably isn't an SL board

[st_lupo]

So I wrote Kessler about the 162 that I've been riding this year to see if they could decipher some of the numbers on it.  I got an impressive amount of information about the board from Mr. Kessler himself, including one really surprising stat.  The board is custom; medium stiffness, 1513mm eff. edge, 21mm taper (stock is 18 I think), but the thing that kinda has me scratching my head is the scr.  The stock 162SL has from 7 to 12m, mine has 7-13-14-9.  So this board has both the tightest and the largest scr of any of my boards!  I'm not even going to pretend that I appreciate all of the nuances between the different radii chosen for the scr and how that has to coincide with the decamber etc, but in my gut I thought that the difference in blended radii quite surprisingly large.  For reference, my NFCE has 10-12-11.  There is no doubt, on back to back runs the Kessler is turning way inside the NFCE (when putting about the same amount of hurt on both boards) and the Kessler will also top out at a higher speed.  

So my questions:

1)Is this an SL board, a racey board or a more free-carve board?

2)What would be the design purpose of such a large variance in scr on the board and what unique handlng qualities might that scr choice give the board?

3)How to best take advantage of that scr profile?  (ie how to use the scr to my advantage to get the board to get airborn reliably and controllably at each turn transition)

4)Compared to a stock 162SL how different is this board (a shared length and that's it?)?

(I realize that Mr. Kessler himself is the most qualified to answer these questions, but since this isn't going to lead to an immediate purchase of a new Kessler I'd prefer not to waste his time.).  

 

Thanks for any insight!

[Buell]

What makes you think it is not an SL? Who was it built for?

If you are pulling the stock sidecut numbers direct from the website, they might actually be 7-11-12-8 or something like that? Maybe your board is not that different than the stock. Regarding how to take advantage of the sidecut, I would listen to the board. It probably rides a lot like other Kesslers, maybe with a bit of a nod to whoever had it built.

I also have a custom 162 Kessler SL that was built for me with Kessler knowing I was not going to race it. I am considering a custom softboot carver from Kessler. If I do that, I will have to ask him what the specs are on mine. I have always wondered if it is very different from a true SL design meant for running gates.

Hansjurg Kessler is really nice, even to us freecarvers. I first called Kessler 8+ years ago for my first custom and talked for a while with the person who answered the phone. I asked his name at the end of the conversation and it was Hansjurg Kessler himself.

[Corey]

Race boards have a larger sidecut in the middle of the board. It scrubs less speed in the turns. 

Assuming that my Rev 163 is similar, it'll turn pretty tight if you really get up on the nose early and bend it into an arc. If you stay centered and don't bend it it'll make really big turns for a 163. I assume that's the point, you can turn as tight as you need and not a bit more. 

Then again, that is a really big spread. Try loading up the nose (firm snow only!) and see it it works as expected. 

[lowrider]

A slight side not to Coreys recommendation. You want to stay out of the back seat on a Kessler.

[Jack M]

Just for grins I measured my stock 168, which is listed as 8-12m.  While my method wasn't perfect, I can say that the radius gets significantly longer than 12m in the middle of the board.  In fact, for a span of at least 15cm around the waist, the width of the board is a constant 202mm. (!!)  The board does appear to be 8m at the tip and 12m at the tail.  While this is not a de facto SL board, I did take it to the top of a USASA SL podium this year amid some good competition.  I love this board, it's very versatile.  No seat is off limits, and it will launch you if you want.

[st_lupo]

Ok that this all makes sense, thanks!  I was just surprised at the range of scr on a single board (especially 13/14m on an SL board).  One thing is for sure is that the fun factor is high. :) 

[jburk]

That 14-9 hook on the tail sounds pretty wild; I remember in your "how does anyone survive an SL board" topic you mentioned you were getting launched, I wonder if it was from this hook? 

On 1/20/2018 at 3:53 PM, st_lupo said:

With no input other than to just try to keep up with the board, it was rocketing into the air at every single transition!  ...And it would land and carve off into the next hop. 

Now that you've had more time on this board, are you finding that this was happening when you were a bit behind the board and loading the tail?

 

[st_lupo]

1 hour ago, jburk said:

That 14-9 hook on the tail sounds pretty wild; I remember in your "how does anyone survive an SL board" topic you mentioned you were getting launched, I wonder if it was from this hook? 

Now that you've had more time on this board, are you finding that this was happening when you were a bit behind the board and loading the tail?

 

That's a good point... I think it might have been a combination of a few things: 1) letting the board transition early and thus picking up more speed combined with 2)crappy cross-over transitions and probably 3)riding in the backseat.  Having ridden the board a bit now, I've begun addressing those three issues and the board is staying much more planted.  At least on the portions of the trails where I am pretty focused on the carving.  The board has actually been exactly what I've been needing to start drilling on proper and consistent cross-under transitions, and those lessons-learned are working well on the Coilers.  

[jburk]

I'm expecting to receive in a couple of days a custom Kessler 162 that I bought on the BOL classifieds last week with the identical nose, waist, and tail widths as st_lupo's (he and I compared the geometry of our respective boards in a PM earlier), so I'm assuming that the SCR will be similar if not identical. 

With that big a hook, I'm going to guess that the back seat isn't to be avoided at all costs, but a place to be visited with caution and respect until this board and I are on much better speaking terms.  Once I (eventually) get to that place, it will be interesting (and possibly amusing to any spectators) to see what happens if/when I intentionally load up the tail just before the transition.  I'll try this with plenty of open space and no solid objects in front of me...

I'm also fully prepared to have the same first day as st_lupo, and will try to restrain myself from throwing the board out the window on the drive home.

An interesting thing I've noted is that the widths are almost identical down to the mm to an SG FullCarve/Race 163, but the SG has an average sidecut listed at 11.8, and Kessler told the seller of my new board that the "theoretical average" was 11.46.  Between these custom Kesslers and the SG, the SG is 1mm longer, the nose is at the same at 260, the SG waist is 3mm wider (203 vs 200), and the SG tail is 240 vs 239.  I wonder what it would be like to ride the SG 163 and these Kesslers back to back, would they be really similar or more like cousins?

[Jack M]

One of the points that was implied in my earlier post is that Kessler is not giving away the secret formuler.  I had no idea that a sidecut shape described as "8-12m" would contain sections significantly longer than 12m, until I measured it.  I'd suggest not worrying so much about the limited numbers he's willing to share, and... (cannot believe I am about to type this)... just go ride, man.

[Buell]

48 minutes ago, jburk said:

I'm expecting to receive in a couple of days a custom Kessler 162 that I bought on the BOL classifieds last week with the identical nose, waist, and tail widths as st_lupo's (he and I compared the geometry of our respective boards in a PM earlier), so I'm assuming that the SCR will be similar if not identical. 

With that big a hook, I'm going to guess that the back seat isn't to be avoided at all costs, but a place to be visited with caution and respect until this board and I are on much better speaking terms.  Once I (eventually) get to that place, it will be interesting (and possibly amusing to any spectators) to see what happens if/when I intentionally load up the tail just before the transition.  I'll try this with plenty of open space and no solid objects in front of me...

I'm also fully prepared to have the same first day as st_lupo, and will try to restrain myself from throwing the board out the window on the drive home.

An interesting thing I've noted is that the widths are almost identical down to the mm to an SG FullCarve/Race 163, but the SG has an average sidecut listed at 11.8, and Kessler told the seller of my new board that the "theoretical average" was 11.46.  Between these custom Kesslers and the SG, the SG is 1mm longer, the nose is at the same at 260, the SG waist is 3mm wider (203 vs 200), and the SG tail is 240 vs 239.  I wonder what it would be like to ride the SG 163 and these Kesslers back to back, would they be really similar or more like cousins?

I have ridden 7 different Kesslers and 4  SGs. Kesslers and SGs do not ride the same. Kesslers are more forgiving and friendly.  Sort of like comparing Coiler to Donek  

I strongly doubt your  Kessler will respond well if you get back seated. Popping the tail for rebound is different than getting behind the board. 

[jburk]

8 minutes ago, Buell said:

I strongly doubt your  Kessler will respond well if you get back seated. Popping the tail for rebound is different than getting behind the board. 

Thanks for the warning. Guess I’m using the terminology wrong, “back seated” vs “loading the tail”. Feel like one is weighting ever so slightly back of centre, and the other is like being dragged across a field with one foot caught in a stirrup. 

[Corey]

5 minutes ago, jburk said:

the other is like being dragged across a field with one foot caught in a stirrup. 

I feel like you saw my first run on a big race board or something...  ;)  

[dingbat]

I thought I recall reading somewhere that Kessler uses clothoid loop side cuts.

[Jack M]

2 hours ago, dingbat said:

I thought I recall reading somewhere that Kessler uses clothoid loop side cuts.

Like on their website? 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Jack Michaud

[nils]

21mm taper???

That seems a lot for a carving board...its what u put on a powder gun usually...? 

[dingbat]

13 hours ago, Jack Michaud said:

Like on their website? 

Nah, It was like, Wuthering Heights or Fahrenheit 451 or something like that.

[dingbat]

4 hours ago, nils said:

21mm taper???

That seems a lot for a carving board...its what u put on a powder gun usually...? 

Could have something to do with the nose tightening up so severely.

[pokkis]

On 2/26/2018 at 11:25 PM, st_lupo said:

The board is custom; medium stiffness, 1513mm eff. edge, 21mm taper (stock is 18 I think)

So that is not so much more than std one

[Buell]

20 mm is pretty typical on a race board. Stock taper is 18mm. My 162 custom Kessler has 19mm.

[nils]

21 hours ago, Buell said:

20 mm is pretty typical on a race board. Stock taper is 18mm. My 162 custom Kessler has 19mm.

Thnx, thought it was closer to freecarve / EC  boards with often no taper...this might also explain the particular behaviour of race boards adapted to today's race format and slopes I guess..

[st_lupo]

On 2/27/2018 at 9:03 PM, Jack Michaud said:

One of the points that was implied in my earlier post is that Kessler is not giving away the secret formuler.  I had no idea that a sidecut shape described as "8-12m" would contain sections significantly longer than 12m, until I measured it.  I'd suggest not worrying so much about the limited numbers he's willing to share, and... (cannot believe I am about to type this)... just go ride, man.

Oh dear.  I didn't mean to give the impression that I was whinging about the sidecut I was just really surprised at just how different it was to my Coilers.  It's beyond questioning that it is a fast, capable and a flipping fun board.  I just kinda like to understand how the different design parameters work so I can make more informed decision on any future board builds... Which I am definitely not doing for at least five years or so (at least that's the story I told my wife and I'm sticking to it).