Atom Ant Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) Just got my never ridden, never seen snow GS boards tuned and pictures below show the result... not sure if this is shoddy quality from the board builder (poor build quality) or if the tuner just botched things. Peter Muller (former world cup / Olympic champion) tuned them in Baar, Switzerland on a $200K+ Montona machine. Thoughts? Edited April 22, 2017 by Atom Ant edited pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburk Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) Are you referring to the cross-hatching pattern on the base? That's the structure, a desirable trait. If not that patterning, is there something more specific? It's not evident (to my tired old eyes) from the pics. Edited April 22, 2017 by jburk Wrong name for pattern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 The base appears to be not flat. The center is low and the tail edge on the right side is also low. If this was a brand new board with a belt grind, then it is consistent for most race board manufacturers from my understandings. Most of the tuners we work with and talk to have told me that Donek is the only brand that comes to them totally flat from the factory. I see areas of binding suck as well. Are you sure it has never been mounted or ridden? Was it waxed with the bindings mounted. That is a huge mistake by the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted April 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Hey Sean, Never been mounted.. promise. I think it's possible the suction holds on the tuning machine caused what looks like binding suck. Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Hey AA, I see what Sean see's ....The Board Isn't Flat! I had the exact same situation just this week with my brand new Swoard EC Gen5 from a local shop with really good cred and they also put it on a brand new $$$ Winterstager machine for structure and edges and I can tell you it rode like S---! It wouldn't track, wouldn't hook up turns at all! It was crazy BAD, much worse than before I brought it in the shop!! So I took it to a different tuner That Knows Alpine Boards and he saw immediately that it wasn't flat and ground it flat and then pulled the edge and base back in to 1 base and 2 edge, then waxed it and OMG the difference!!! It was a rocket before the bad tune, now it's a rocket on rails!!! Lesson here - don't trust you boards to a SKIER!...no matter how many Olympic medals they have!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburk Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 @Donek and @barryj, thanks for showing me what I missed, always good to learn something. Oh yeah: mea culpa. I felt a bit of the fool this morning having posted "it's structure", and only after posting did I check AA's profile. "Doh, I guess he knows what the bottom of an board is supposed to look like". That's what comes from ignoring my own rule about never posting before coffee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelc Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 I have never had a board with a flat base. And most of them don't have enough ptex to be ground flat. Maybe I see a Donek in my future..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozzen Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) not affect on ride of the board Edited April 23, 2017 by frozzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 I think before judging the picts the board should be brushed with a brass brush to remove all the wax, it had a coat and yes the structure of a stone grind is there, under the wax, judging flatness is hit and miss, different thickness wax. I broke my rule, never buy used boards, this spring, picked up an MK, contacted donek about my concerns, little ripples along both edges, you can hear them when shining wax via the plastic cork supplied with the wax dr? kit, wax rubbed onto the base then rubbed in, putting a flat edge over the bottom, bottom has 1/8th inch of light, the prior owner had waxed and had no idea how, overheated the bottom and well, broke my rule, as its new, it can be ground flat but the core was ruined. The ripples make the board sing on hard snow, its erie and loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 23/04/2017 at 3:11 AM, barryj said: Hey AA, I see what Sean see's ....The Board Isn't Flat! I had the exact same situation just this week with my brand new Swoard EC Gen5 from a local shop with really good cred and they also put it on a brand new $$$ Winterstager machine for structure and edges and I can tell you it rode like S---! It wouldn't track, wouldn't hook up turns at all! It was crazy BAD, much worse than before I brought it in the shop!! So I took it to a different tuner That Knows Alpine Boards and he saw immediately that it wasn't flat and ground it flat and then pulled the edge and base back in to 1 base and 2 edge, then waxed it and OMG the difference!!! It was a rocket before the bad tune, now it's a rocket on rails!!! Lesson here - don't trust you boards to a SKIER!...no matter how many Olympic medals they have!! Barry, dont forget the board works also well without any structure done on the base. We found out when using the electra 4000 than broken sandbelt gave the best versatile result. Some riders I know don't even wax them and it still works ok! ( gen 5 is some other brand but similar high density carbon charged base) Suction areas appear on some boards in a batch for an unknown reason...it is not systematic strangely. I have had boards with the same core and laminate complex and same batch with small suction areas, and others you could over tighten bindings and nothing would appear..not sure why! Nils 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) On April 22, 2017 at 9:11 PM, barryj said: Lesson here - don't trust you boards to a SKIER!...no matter how many Olympic medals they have!! The name on the door may not belong to the actual tech that does the work, so there's that. Were she not already deceased, I'd trust Julia Child with my grinds, on account of her virtuosity. FWIW, a SKIER does the base work on my boards. Point being, it's competence with tools that matters, not so much a chosen identity. Edited April 24, 2017 by Beckmann AG CH,ch,changes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 True that Beckmann, Competence with tuning Alpine boards is the key! Not to be confused or influenced by trophy's or medals was my point No insult to skiers was intended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Tuning a board is more of an art form than mechanical endeavour. The Aussies spent millions building a machine to sheer sheep faster and more efficiently than a human. What they got was a quick way to make lamb chops. Watching a board being run through the belt or stone grinder is like watching the bow hand of a violin player . It's more in the feel for what your doing than it is the motion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Mr. 'Atom Ant'. have you checked these with a true-bar the width of your decks? Just, ya know, from a Machinist's pov, not from an 'almost' coach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) Yes Eric... not flat. However I checked after the botched tune so not sure who is to blame... Edited April 25, 2017 by Atom Ant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 If the manufacturer is who I think it is, they have many many factory 2nds or even 3rds for sale. Maybe your order for a mint one got mixed up with one of em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Michael it could be the problem is that it'a a flaw or second............but the the evidence leads elsewhere. From my "bad tune experience" what I've learned from my New tuner, Walter at Slopestyle Sports, Reno (Thanks Jim!) is most Alpine boards Don't come totally flat from the factory and Sean's post reiterates that - "The base appears to not be flat. it is consistent for most race board manufacturers from my understandings. Most of the tuners we work with and talk to have told me that Donek is the only brand that comes to them totally flat from the factory." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 To my understanding all Coiler boards except for the experimental Coiler BX convex prototypes are flat when they leave the shop. You should expect no less in any board you buy. I've watched Bruce perform this task and for anyone unfamiliar with the process it isn't as simple as turning on the machine and sticking the end of the board into it. It requires multiple passes and observation between passes to be sure the desired results are obtained. Certain tweaking can be done between passes to correct undesirable traits or imperfections but perfect results might not be obtainable if certain preconditions aren't already inherent in the boards build. Binding suck in an older board may be so deep that obtaining a flat base may never be possible since the ptex material along the edges or the metal edges themselves may have insufficient material to allow enough material to be removed to get back to flat. I suspect that even if your base is not perfectly flat a proper detune could compensate for much of the undesirable charasteristics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 On 4/25/2017 at 0:54 AM, Atom Ant said: Yes Eric... not flat. However I checked after the botched tune so not sure who is to blame... Well, THAT narrows thing down one notch! Use Ocham's Razor to good effect, then! [hint, not Montana's fault, nor, likely, the tech running it!; not an Asym Core, I'm pretty sure..] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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