najserrot Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 " sliding the board under" ... this deacription is golden. Enjoying a short steep redish part at the end if the blue slope im usually on. Used just bomb straight to it. Another thing that was troubling me was the toe side turns. Back sides were natural and could nail it everytime since the beggining. Toe sides were hit or miss. It got better last week with the advice of using the toes on the back foot... BUT today (deeluxe track 700) I found a line/marking under the boot. Eyeballing, it seems to me the senter of the boot. I have F2 race bindings and when the boot is locked in, the mark on the boot is 1 cm behind the F2 logo (removable plastic disk) which I assume is the center of the bindings. I then adjusted the bindings to have the boot marking right iver the logo. Was i right to adjust the bindings??? The ride felt a bit strange the first few runs. Toe side turns improved but heel sides was less easier than I rembered it to be but still very doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 For toeside: http://www.bomberonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/The-Toeside-Problem.pdf As for centering your boot on the binding, it's really just personal preference, and a completely different issue than on skis. Some people "bias" their bindings so the rear foot is more forward on the binding and the front foot is more rearward on the binding, or vice-versa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workshop7 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, najserrot said: I then adjusted the bindings to have the boot marking right iver the logo. I use the forward/backward boot to binding adjustment to get my toes and heels equal distance from the edges of the board. I pay no attention to centering the boot on the binding but where the boot is relative to the board is very important to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Jack's toeside article above is right on the money. I need to revisit that thought process the next time I ride! 30 minutes ago, workshop7 said: I use the forward/backward boot to binding adjustment to get my toes and heels equal distance from the edges of the board. I pay no attention to centering the boot on the binding but where the boot is relative to the board is very important to me. Same for me. That means that my front foot is offset forward and rear foot offset rearward. With a size 28 UPZ, the Bomber step-in Sidewinder heel block (front binding) is all the way forward, blocking one of the 4x4 screws, and I still have a bit of toe underhang with the calf buckles being the first thing to hit the snow. The rear foot is a full hole set rearward on the base plate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm interested in three things when I setup my bindings. 1) Overhang 2) Where my knee is in relation to the board. I learned of this from BeckmannAG. He has a very detailed setup page ('m going to link to the knee position part here: http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration/6toe-lift 3) Comfort (If you nail everything but cannot maintain the stance due to comfort issues this is where I start to tweak. BTW- Jack's articles are exceptional, just sayin'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najserrot Posted January 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 9Jack, I've been watching marc cirigliano's videos on youtube that emphasizes the hip drop before. But your article goes goes through a lot of details which is enlightening. My bindings heel blocks and toeblocks are very much moved forward to align the notch on the middle of the boot to the middle of the bindings. I tried the front foot heel bias and the rear fott toe bias yesterday. Dont really know how to do this but i just adjusted to have heel overhang and toe over.the snow was too soft to get a propper assesment. But it felt the carving felt much better on both sides. But if i flat base the flats, the tail wanted to out run the nose. Any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workshop7 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 I have already posted these pics in another topic but they work well in this one too. I set up all of my bindings/boards like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Workshop is obviously of the zero overhang group. You can have a little overhang as most people never angulate their board past 85 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workshop7 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, lonbordin said: Workshop is obviously of the zero overhang group. You can have a little overhang as most people never angulate their board past 85 degrees. There is a bit of an optical illusion going on in my pics. If you were to take a square and place the corner where the floor meets the edge of the board and then slide the square along the board and past the bindings, the vertical edge of the square would not slide past either binding. The toe bails hang over the board edge by 1-1.5 cm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, workshop7 said: There is a bit of an optical illusion going on in my pics. If you were to take a square and place the corner where the floor meets the edge of the board and then slide the square along the board and past the bindings, the vertical edge of the square would not slide past either binding. The toe bails hang over the board edge by 1-1.5 cm. I'm not usually worried about items quite that high... But then Corey complains about his buckles dragging ( he's bragging don't let him fool you! ). Large Carpenter's squares... an essential tool for Hardboot snowboarding! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 najserrot, you're going to have heel and toe drag. If not now, very soon. Also, an 18cm waist is very narrow, especially for a new carver. I'd strongly recommend selling that board and getting something more appropriate with at least a 20cm waist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, lonbordin said: I'm not usually worried about items quite that high... But then Corey complains about his buckles dragging ( he's bragging don't let him fool you! ). Humble brag? ;) I had a couple of very frustrating days until I figured that out. The large UPZ upper cuff buckles mixed with slight outward cant on the front binding mean the buckles are quite a bit outside the heel. See the 'Fuego method': http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7172. The 'Cheerios method' works similarly, or for the average age on this forum; the 'All Bran method'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 najserrot, I just noticed the inserts in your Donek picture. Your front foot is pretty far back. May I suggest putting your front foot right on the middle 4x4 insert pack? The board makers have dialed in their boards around that foot position. I've found that offsetting my front foot rearward makes the board feel quite dead, stiff, and unresponsive. Then set the rear binding wherever you want for your stance width. As Jack suggests, you have a fair bit of overhang. That will quickly limit you, even on mild carving. Maybe bump your angles up by 5-10 degrees? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najserrot Posted January 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Jack Michaud said: najserrot, you're going to have heel and toe drag. If not now, very soon. Also, an 18cm waist is very narrow, especially for a new carver. I'd strongly recommend selling that board and getting something more appropriate with at least a 20cm waist. In the photo, i tried to center the notch on the boot to the center of the bindings. It looks like a lot of overhang since the photo was taken from a side angle. The front binding is set at 52 deg with no overhang viewed directly from the top. The back bindings is set to 45 deg with a bit of overhang. I have really really small feet. 24 mondo. When i tried the toe/heel bias where in both toe and heel bails were were moved to the extreme opposite ends, i ended up with 55/50 with a bit overhang . 53 minutes ago, corey_dyck said: najserrot, I just noticed the inserts in your Donek picture. Your front foot is pretty far back. May I suggest putting your front foot right on the middle 4x4 insert pack? The board makers have dialed in their boards around that foot position. I've found that offsetting my front foot rearward makes the board feel quite dead, stiff, and unresponsive. Then set the rear binding wherever you want for your stance width. Ok, I will try that. On the photo, the first 4 holes are used closest to the middle of the board are used both on the front and back bindings Workshop7, is this setup what is reffered to as the gilmour bias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Quote May I suggest putting your front foot right on the middle 4x4 insert pack? The board makers have dialed in their boards around that foot position. Live and learn. I always thought that to comply with what the board maker had in mind, one puts the bindings equidistant from the halfway position between the innermost inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 35 minutes ago, najserrot said: Workshop7, is this setup what is reffered to as the gilmour bias? Seriously don't worry about that. Gilmour bias is not a thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, Aracan said: Live and learn. I always thought that to comply with what the board maker had in mind, one puts the bindings equidistant from the halfway position between the innermost inserts. That probably works too. Smarter people (http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration/1front-bindingsetback) have complicated techniques. I find that any time I deviate forward or rearward, I end up going back. Play with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 3 hours ago, workshop7 said: There is a bit of an optical illusion going on in my pics. If you were to take a square and place the corner where the floor meets the edge of the board and then slide the square along the board and past the bindings, the vertical edge of the square would not slide past either binding. The toe bails hang over the board edge by 1-1.5 cm. To avoid that you can use some objects with 90 degrees angle to measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 40 minutes ago, najserrot said: In the photo, i tried to center the notch on the boot to the center of the bindings. I think you should stop worrying about the notch on the boot. Adjust it so that you have equal toe and heel overhang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workshop7 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 24 minutes ago, najserrot said: Workshop7, is this setup what is reffered to as the gilmour bias? No. Like Corey, I move the toe and heel block forward on the front foot and rearward on the back foot so that I can center the boot on the board's edges. If your binding angles were both 0*, feet perpendicular to the board length, then centering the boot on the binding would also center the boot on the board (assuming that the center mark on the bindings is truely centered, accounting for the difference in length between the toe bail and heel bail). Once you rotate the bindings to more realistic angles for carving then you have to take into account the change in board width along its length. Let's concentrate on the front foot for a moment. When running a given angle of 50*, for example, then the width of the board near the heel of the boot is smaller than the width of the board near the same boot's toe. In this case, if the heel and toe overhangs were equal while the binding angle was at 0*, then the heel and toe overhangs (or distance from the boards edges) at 50* is no longer equal because of the change in width along the boards length. This is the reason that some guys move the front foot forward on the binding to get the heel of the boot farther away from the edge and the toe closer to the edge (once you have finished with this movement the goal is to have the same distance between the toe to edge and the heel to edge). On the back foot the toe is the part of the boot that is over the more narrow width of the board, so the boot gets moved rearward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workshop7 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Keep in mind this is just what I do. There is such a thing as doing it wrong but there are so many different ways to do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 For a 10 m sidecut radius, the difference in width along the length of a size 27 boot at a 60 degree angle is roughly 3 mm. So if you adjust the boots to have equal overhang based on the edge, they are not going to be off centre relative to each other by very much at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said: For a 10 m sidecut radius, the difference in width along the length of a size 27 boot at a 60 degree angle is roughly 3 mm. So if you adjust the boots to have equal overhang based on the edge, they are not going to be off centre relative to each other by very much at all. https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/ :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workshop7 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said: For a 10 m sidecut radius, the difference in width along the length of a size 27 boot at a 60 degree angle is roughly 3 mm. So if you adjust the boots to have equal overhang based on the edge, they are not going to be off centre relative to each other by very much at all. I agree with your reasoning Neil. Once you split that 3mm in half to put 1.5mm on either end of the boot, logic says that it shouldn't make enough of a difference to matter. However, for whatever reason, it does. Each and everytime I have taken a new set of TD2s or TD3s out of the box, put them on a board, adjusted the bindings to fit the boots and set the angles to put the toes and heels where I want them, the front heel and rear toe always need to come away from the edges more than the front toe and rear heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, workshop7 said: Each and everytime I have taken a new set of TD2s or TD3s out of the box, put them on a board, adjusted the bindings to fit the boots and set the angles to put the toes and heels where I want them, the front heel and rear toe always need to come away from the edges more than the front toe and rear heel. Yes, a little bit. But what I am saying is I don't think it is enough to where it will affect how you feel when you are riding. So your back foot is a mm towards the heel and your front is a mm towards the toe, I don't think you'll feel that in your hips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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