Extreme Carving vs Race Carving Technique

[gdboytyler]

I recently saw the Sigi Grabner free-carving video. It's the best carving technique that I've seen. Despite the crappy song, it's now one of my favorite carving videos.. My other favorite carving video is CARVED, by the extremecarving.com guys.

I think it's the two best videos to compare/contrast techniques.

IMHO, it is much easier to carve a steep run using the EC technique. I don't race, but I did recently buy a SG 157 Full Race. I do quite a bit of EC on a Coiler Schtubby 171.

I will try emulating Sigi's technique and save some wear and tear on my jacket and gloves:-)

Race Carving:

Extreme Carving:

[BlueB]

IMHO, it is much easier to carve a steep run using the EC technique.

Of course, you get to lay down a bit ;)

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[SunSurfer]

Any kind of touching the snow, even with my HDPE hand armour, noticeably slows me down and makes the steeper runs easier, and narrow steep runs possible. No touch demands tighter C turns to control your speed. Like you, I admire SGs fluid technique.

[philw]

Well it's all a question of style.

 

To me, the fully lying down stuff is a funny looking trick.

 

Sigi - if you look at his laid out stuff, it's still a trick, but he's not diving for the snow, more avoiding it if anything. But his non-trick stuff is more interesting, aggressive & dynamic. It's not ballet, it's a speed sport.

[gdboytyler]

Well it's all a question of style.

 

To me, the fully lying down stuff is a funny looking trick.

 

Sigi - if you look at his laid out stuff, it's still a trick, but he's not diving for the snow, more avoiding it if anything. But his non-trick stuff is more interesting, aggressive & dynamic. It's not ballet, it's a speed sport.

 

I would disagree.  Technique would be the science part and style the artistic part of snowboarding.

 

Racers tend to be compressed when they cross the fall line.  EC'ers are extended when they cross the fall line.  That would be the technique part.

 

Sigi and the Extremecarving.com guys (Patrice and Jacques) all look smooth when they are carving turns.  That is the style part.

 

Downhill and Super-G are speed sports.  I wouldn't call recreational carving a speed sport.

Edited March 15, 2016 by gdboytyler

[slopestar]

I admire the speed and dynamic riding so much more. Sigi has my vote. All styles blended together WITH SPEED is the most attractive and enjoyable to watch and even better to emulate.

[SunSurfer]

Racers tend to be compressed when they cross the fall line.  EC'ers are extended when they cross the fall line.  That would be the technique part.

 

Sigi and the Extremecarving.com guys (Patrice and Jacques) all look smooth when they are carving turns.  That is the style part.

By "cross the fall line" do you mean in the depth of the turn where the rider is going down the fall line, or, the transition from one turn to the next, where the rider is closest to traversing the slope.

My understanding is the EC riders extend during the turn and compress just prior to initiating the next turn.

Sigi, free carving in the video above, clearly unweights during transition by extending upwards.

[hardscoper]

By "cross the fall line" do you mean in the depth of the turn where the rider is going down the fall line, or, the transition from one turn to the next, where the rider is closest to traversing the slope.

My understanding is the EC riders extend during the turn and compress just prior to initiating the next turn.

Sigi, free carving in the video above, clearly unweights during transition by extending upwards.

 

Should be in the fall line (steepest part of turn), Sigi is compressed, EC'er is extended.

Edited March 16, 2016 by hardscoper

[Neil Gendzwill]

Snowboarding is about fun. If you like laying them out, go for it! I don't see why there isn't room for both. Laying out consecutive turns while keeping momentum requires a lot of skill, which I admire. I also admire skilled park and pipe riders, downhill skiers, tele bumpers... all good!

[Corey]

I'm with Neil.  It doesn't have to be an either/or discussion, though there are many people that are strongly polarized towards one side or the other.  They're just two of the many possible techniques to learn.  Learn them both and use the one that's appropriate for whatever is in front of you, or whatever you feel like doing.  

 

EC style seems to draw more attention from those that don't understand what we do, which is the vast majority of people on the ski hill.  

 

I can say that push-pull turns with extension as the board is pointed down the hill don't jive with blue/yellow ice for me.  I have much better edge grip with my center of gravity very close to the edge.  Other than that, I just switch back and forth randomly. 

[snowmatic]

SunSurferAny kind of touching the snow, even with my HDPE hand armour, noticeably slows me down

Well, on Northern Hemisphere (European Alps) we usualy wear clothing/gloves witch contain so called No-Friction-Technology and no more clothing/gloves based on No-Technology-Friction as we had once on the past millenium!

We like to ride fast, even on steeper runs.

Sigi Grabner free-carving skill as CARVED by extremecarving too are based only at easy to ride slopes, right?

Edited March 16, 2016 by snowmatic

[gdboytyler]

...We like to ride fast, even on steeper runs.

Sigi Grabner free-carving skill as CARVED by extremecarving too are based only at easy to ride slopes, right?

Do you have a video sample of someone carving on "difficult" slopes?

[SunSurfer]

Well, on Northern Hemisphere (European Alps) we usualy wear clothing/gloves witch contain so called No-Friction-Technology and no more clothing/gloves based on No-Technology-Friction as we had once on the past millenium!

What, you're no longer riding commando in rawhide lederhosen on those 110% slopes of sheet ice?

[jtslalom]

I've never really heard of the "EC style" of riding until the early 90's. Before that time I have always modeled my riding technique from racers. For those of you that have ever ridden in a race course you know that some of the toughest conditions occur when you are one of the last racers to run a course. The course is totally iced over and rutted. If the technique racers use is to carve through icy steep rutted terrain then that's the kind of riding I want to learn. Those are the type of conditions I am used to riding on my home mountain and that is the type of riding I do. I believe that the race carving style that I ride gets my body close to the edge, gives me a high edge angle, and also lets my body get close to the snow but in more of a compact position than that of the "EC style" carving.

 

To me their are only two techniques of riding. They are slalom and giant slalom. I'm not quite sure where they fit in to push, pull, under, over, EC, or any of the other styles. All I know is that most of my early days of riding were spent with snowboard and ski racers, all of which can carve some of the best lines I have ever seen. SO I model my riding after them.

[Gabe T]

Snowboarding is about fun. If you like laying them out, go for it! I don't see why there isn't room for both. Laying out consecutive turns while keeping momentum requires a lot of skill, which I admire. I also admire skilled park and pipe riders, downhill skiers, tele bumpers... all good!

 

Agreed.  Ride the style that you find most enjoyable.  For me, it was the exploration of different styles that really made things interesting.  There’s a certain level of excitement that comes with learning something new;  those light bulb moments when you start to figure things out is what really motivates you to get back on the hill.

 

Much of my riding is directly influenced by what I’ve seen on videos, especially since the youtube era began.   The style shown by SIgi is probably similar to the one I emulate the most often these days. (I would say it's also not indicative of my style during my first 15 years of carving!)  I first took note of this style through the Japanese carving videos.  (I believe the Sigi footage is related to those same productions as he’s appeared in a few of the Installer series of vids. )    Smooth and fluid.   Fast clean lines.  Minimal upper body contact with the snow.

 

For many years prior, I rode a different style;  low (but not extended like EC) with lots of hip, forearm and hand contact with the snow.  Still do that time to time for a change of pace but it really kills the feeling of speed especially when the snow is soft.  Not to mention being rough on the apparel!

 

Dabbled in a bit of EC riding too.  First introduction to the style was through the Swoard/Extreme Carving vids from the late 90s I believe.    Never seen anything like it at the time and thought it was pretty cool.   Seemed like it took a few years before you saw anyone else replicating that style well (at least on video).   More recently, EC vids started popping up like the Russian ones showing some nice progression; lots of guys doing it very well.  I would even say perhaps exceeding the levels shown by the pioneers of the style. (Advances in equipment probably had something to with it).   I thought the instruction vids were very well done too.  One thing I realized from the video was that you didn’t necessarily need steep terrain to learn the technique.   So I took to the vids a couple of seasons ago and tried to figured it out.   Again, the learning aspect was really fun.   Unfortunately, under the best of conditions at my hill, I'm barely able to eke out 2 fully linked EC turns before coming to a screeching halt!  Not much EC riding since that season but I would definitely do more if I were on a bigger mountain with some smooth terrain.   The feeling of a long laid out heel side was really fun!

 

Shout out to CasperCarver as well.  Another inspiration for finding fun things to do on a snowboard.  : )