Stances...What are you guys riding.

[brodster_57]

Hi,

I know this a burned out question, but I am curious what many of you are ridiing. To start off I have an F2 178, and I ride 60F/60R. My stance width is 19," and I have approx 2 to 3 deg toe lift and 6 deg heellift. I have a couple degrees of inward cant on my rear foot. I have Raichle AF700's, which seem to be a little aggresive in the forward lean department stock, set light for forward lean on the front foot and quite a bit more on the rear.

Currently, this setup seems to work well; however, I have always had this feeling like my back foot heel doesn't want to set down in the heel cup. I frequently get front quad burn, and I have this bad habit of tail chatter in the lower portions of my heelside turns near exit. I can quiet down the heel chatter if I get my weight back further on the tail, but sometimes it feels like I am leaning too far back. Granted, I know a little tail pressure at exit is appropriate and I may just be getting used to putting my weight where it should be, but I am starting to wonder if some of my problems are equipment related. Also I am 6' tall. I have medium legs in length and the 19" feels comfortable. I have theorized that a narrower stance may help (at the cost of stability), less forward lean on the front foot may help, more on the rear may help, and more toe and heellift may benefit as well. I am just trying to get a feel what is normal for someone of my size with 60 deg angles.

Just getting tired of this unbalanced feeling; please give me you input. Thanks in advance!

[D-Sub]

any chance youre just a bit too forward on the sidecut? every tried shifting your whole stance back say 1/2"

also...what about killing the cant entirely on your back foot or even putting just a little on your front?

try it out maybe?

[Fleaman]

I am 6'4 and I ride with 19.5 width and 62 front, 58 back.

a bit of toe lift and back foot canted about 3 degrees.

I do get lots of front leg burn at the start of the year, but it wears off as I become seasoned.

I sometimes ride with my front foot locked and let my back foot unlocked on my lemans boots. But I find if it is really icy, I have to lock my back foot as far forward as possible.

The only time I had problems with the tail skidding was when I demo'ed a Prior WCR. I was a real snappy board, but i found that I had to finish my turns with weight on the tail or it would skid. I didn't have time to see if it was my binding setup or just the board. But I did find it easy to compensate after I figured out what was goin on.

Have you tried lowering your back foot angle a bit say 2 to 5 degrees lower than your front foot?

[Guest Randy S.]

I'm 5'10", 195lbs. I ride 3-4 boards regularly (well, when I'm not injured). A 163 Volkl RT SL, 171 Donek Freecarve 1, 184 Coiler RC and a 210 Donekk Race. Most have 18cm waist, except the Volkl. I wear size 275 Head Stratos boots and ride TD2s.

18.5-19.5 stance. 3* toe lift, 6* heel lift (toe is just lift, heel is slightly canted toward the nose). 60* front 56ish* rear.

[Jon Dahl]

5'7" 160lbs, 31" inseam. Ride with 19 1/2 stance width, 65F/60R with TD2's 3 degree disks front and back (back foot slightly canted out) SB224's for boots. And bindings centered on the board. I can relate to what you are saying about the heel in the boot thing, and the tail not carving cleanly. When I went to SES last year (I think you were there, too) I had my bindings set back to the rear inserts, and had just started playing with toe lift. Found out at the end of the session that the board rode better with the bindings centered, and even better with TD's on it, using equal toe/heel lift. (Volkl Renntiger 173) I think what I'm trying to say is you need to find a relaxed, centered position on the board, then practise shifting your weight on the board dynamically as you turn. If you are finding that you agressively weight the nose on turn initaition, but do not finish the turn with weight shift to the back of the board, that may explain the feeling of tail chatter. I hope I'm explaining it properly! Might want to try riding with your boots set as soft as you can and work on using your ankles more(see the tips section) Just my $.02

[Linus]

I'm 5' 11" 175lb....but my stance changes depending on the board. I can ride from

17.5" ~ 20" without problems. My angles are always the same F57 R52.

[Dave*]

I am about 5'11'' with 32 " in seam , 28 mondo

I ride 21 to 22 inch stance width true center to center on all boards, flat front always, flat or 3degree rear. I find the wider stance give me more mobility thru the hips n knees than the narrower stance I started with a few years back

Angles vary board to board but I always have the same amount of "splay". About 6-8 degrees. Allows me to jump board to board with out much reacclimatizing to new setup.

On my narrower boards (19cm waists) I run 60 ish front, 52 rear, anything steeper and things start to feel "tippy". Just a touch of overhang with this.

Fatter 25 cm waists the lowest I will go is 45 front 37 rear, with that I get a fair bit of underhang.

[mtnpig]

It would help and save time experimenting if the boards had a visible mid-point marked to determine binding mount position. It would help even more if they knew of a suggested set back due to the sidecut of the board. Trying to find a flat wall or flat table top to slip paper under to determine running edge contact points gets to be difficult on longer boards. I never thought about getting a long level (like they use to hang doors in the construction or masonry industry) but that is starting to be a bit of over kill on the tool market. Hey, while I'm griping how about some info provided as to the base/side edge bevel that the board was prepped with. Maybe an owners manuel with a big disclaimer attached "Carving may be hazardous to your marital relationship during the winter months". What's cool about Bomber is that if I post these questions the people here are overwelming in there responses and thoughts. OK I'm done bitching now where is my 5mm allen. Two years and I'm still stumbling thru the learning curve.

[Derf]

Here goes:

166 board with 18.5 cm waist

Size 27 boots

18" stance (board middle stance)

25 mm setback (default board setback)

60f/60r, both flat

I used to ride with a 7 deg rear Burton cant and was having front leg burn, when I removed it, it went away.

I experimented with two 7 deg Burton cants and a 19.5" stance, it wasn't so bad, no leg burn, just a weird feeling, but still good control.

I also experimented a 18.5" stance (because people here keep talking about wide stances) with both bindings still flat, the control was not good, so I went back to 18".

[Ray]

Am 5’7, use stance: 19.3 (49cm) centered on the board.

My angles are: 63 front / 60 rear on my carvers (17.1 cm waist) and use some

toe & heel lift with a 1.5 degree of negative cant in the front.

Boots I use most are Suzuka with modified RAB system and Conformable liners.

Ray

[Gtanner]

6' 210lbs, I ride with a width of 20" and about a 55F/50R (for 19cm waist) stance with size 27.5 boots. Using Cateks, so about a 3deg toe lift, 1 deg cant, 4-5deg heel lift, 1 deg cant. Boots are Burton Fires with Thermo liners.

[Miguel]

I used to run higher angles but I have been much happier lately running lower angles with a wider stance. Setup differs with width of my boards.

1) 19.5 waist - angles of 55/50

2) 21.5 waist - 45/40

3) 23 waist - 35/30

21" stance width with 34/35 inseam, centered, size 11 boots

3 degree cants front/back

I have a bit of overhang on the rear boot on all the setups but so far have not booted out. I believe the boots being elevated so high off the board with Bombers allows for some boot overhang.

Miguel

[Jack M]

Go to a 3 degree rear disc, heel lift only - no cant. Leave front foot as is. Widen your stance a quarter inch and center it on the running length of the board. If that feels good try another quarter inch more width. I really don't think narrowing your stance will help.

As for the heelside chatter or oscillations, you may not be carving a tight enough turn for your speed. As our speed increases, the board wants to carve a tighter turn. Try more angulation and more edge angle. Really get forward for the first half of the turn, then come back to the center to finish it. You don't want to get too far in the back seat.

My setup: I'm 6'0", 30" inseam. Binding angles parallel, degrees depending on width of board to avoid overhang - currently 65 on an 18cm wide board. Stance width 19.5". TD2s with 3 degree discs front and rear, front disc at 85 (toe lift with some inward cant), rear disc at 55 (heel lift with a little outward cant).

[Neil Gendzwill]

45 front, 40 rear on a 21.5 cm board. Width IIRC is around 19.5" but I'd have to measure to be sure. Slight cant inward on the rear foot (whatever the wedge on the old RS stepins is, maybe 3 degrees?). With this rig I'm willing to bet my knees don't seperate like the technical gurus here would like. I'm 6' tall, 32" inseam.

[Hagen]

50/45 on a 21.5 waist, stance width - don't know but it feels comfortable... I use 3 degree disks at 90 degrees.

not sure about my more narrow boards - don't ride them as often.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

As our speed increases, the board wants to carve a tighter turn.

Hi Jack,

Could you please explain this to me a bit more. Thanks. Ray

[Jack M]

Originally posted by Ray

Hi Jack,

Could you please explain this to me a bit more. Thanks. Ray

As carve speed increases, so do g-forces. Thus we need to lean into the carve more to balance. This tips the board up higher, creating more edge angle, creating a tighter carve. It sounds circular, but it all reaches a distinct balance point at some combination of edge angle and inclination angle. The Physics article here proves it.

[Gecko]

Originally posted by Tim Tuthill

I'm 6-0 185 lbs 65 deg both feet in mid board, 19.5 stance. 6 deg rear, 0 deg front. TD 2'S step ins. This works real well, I think. This is ankles and knees, skiing, not surfing, skate boarding or water skiing. Yes, I do bottom turns and cut backs as if I were riding Sunset beach, but the set up is not the same. That's my 2 cents worth!

Funny you say that ...other than angles which are steeper due to avoidence of drag my stance is almost the same surfing skating and snowboarding...the one exception is when I skate miniramp...my feet need to be closer together in order to deal with the closness but downhill pool and park I ride a 19.5"-20" stance and my feet are usually at about 45* or greater...

[ar(angel]

did you find it tough at first to get to the 65* angles? I felt like I had some loss of control the last time I steepend my angles. I'm ready to try it again this year due to a constant feeling that Im not turned towards the front of my board enough. When I start out down the slope I find I have to really concentrate and tell myself to tuck my back knee (to start) and get into my carving stance in order to "feel" right. I open my knees up as I begin to get into the flow of my run and get more aggressive, but am still having trouble on my heelside with my carves being symmetrical to my toesides. Your new avatar and a picture you recently posted inspired me (for some reason looking at other goofy footers helps in stead of analizing a regular footers technique) to try some different techiniques to change my body position during my heelsides and so far has had mixed results. I find if I come in too aggressive and try to keep my legs extended like I do on my toesides, I get over quickly but almost always end up on my butt. If I back it off a little and crouch a little more, I hold my line but can't get cranked over near as far as I can on my toeside??? I'm going to steepen my angles slightly this weekend (60F-55R now to 63F-58/60R) and see what this does for me. Thanks as always for your help and insite,

Paul

[Maciek]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

As carve speed increases, so do g-forces. Thus we need to lean into the carve more to balance. This tips the board up higher, creating more edge angle, creating a tighter carve. It sounds circular, but it all reaches a distinct balance point at some combination of edge angle and inclination angle. The Physics article here proves it.

Your article and math is one thing. My calculator based on your math is second thing and it can prove and disprove conceptions and misconcconceptions with numbers.

Have Java installed as plugin for your favorite browser:

Carving Calculator

[Jack M]

avatar pic Honestly I didn't have a hard time going to such steep angles. I wil tell you though, one winter something went wrong with my heelsides. I didn't know what was going on until one day I forgot to latch my ride/walk lever into ride mode. I went for my first heelside turn and literally "fell" forward into the right position and the carve stuck like magic. I realized I hadn't been pressuring the nose hard enough during the first half of the carve, and had been coming too far back to the tail at the end. I think this may be a common mistake.

So next time you're out, try to really pressure the nose at the start of each carve, lean in, and then use your knees for suspension - in that order.

Also, have you seen the Practice Drills in the Tech Articles?

[ar(angel]

I'll check out the practice drills today. In thinking about my toeside/heelside body positions you may have hit on the right fact that I'm not getting forward enough on my heelsides. I think my toesides are better because I'm more forward on the board and as you mentioned this allows the nose to stick and the board to carve better. I'll be on the slopes tomorrow and see if I can put it all together. I'm also going to try to get some pictures and video, so maybe I can break down what I'm doing/not doing.

Thanks again,

Paul

[Jack M]

Looking at your avatar, I wonder if your bindings are too far back? I've never ridden a Burner, but I've heard you're supposed to ride them more forward then a hardtail?

Also - are you looking straight down hill? Another common error. Look where you want the board to go (across the hill), well in advance

Maciek - cool calculator! Took me a few tries to figure it out, but it works well.

[jp1]

Jack, I'm really sorry, I'm so DENSE. This whole left/right, front/back , heelside/toeside deal is 'totally' confusing me, especially when standing on a board at 60*. YES, I do know my right from my left, my heels from my toes, and even my front from my back, so why it's confusing I do NOT know!

EXAMPLE: Toeside carves: Like the grabs described above, but for toeside. Front hand grabbing rear boot cuff: make a toeside carve such that your front hand can grab your rear boot cuff with your arm going behind your butt (not between your legs!). Again, do not simply crouch down or bow your chest towards your toeside edge. Make a clean, angulated turn with a mostly upright upper body, looking where you are going, and knees bent for suspension. Practicing this will lead to well-balanced toesides like this one:

Assuming I'm regular: Left foot in front of my right.

My front hand would be my left hand,NO?

My 'rear boot cuff' would be my right boot cuff, NO?

To me, reaching around my butt with my left hand to grab my right boot cuff would put would put all of my weight on the left edge of my board, hence making a 'heelside' turn, not a toeside turn.

WHAT am I missing here ??

SORRY guys' have a good laugh on me, I'm DENSE, but I'm determined to figure it out !

Would someone PLEASE make a Good Instructional VIDEO, PLEASE !!

jp1

[slopetool]

I've been finding it more comfortable and more all-around to ride a wider stance and less angles too. I'm 5'10" and 198lbs.

It just feels right for me at 21" on my longer carve boards and 23" on my Tankers. 63 - 53 degrees on my 190 Rossi WC