crote123 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Rode this week-end and had two totally different days. Saturday was relatively warm (-2C) with packed powder and today was colder (-12C) with hard pack with some fluff over it. I spent yesterday grinning ear to ear (albeit a little soft for my taste) No trouble at all. Well today was the total opposite, heelside wasn't giving me any trouble *but* at the end of a toeside carve, the tail always felt like washing out a bit (no chatter) and I really needed to throw myself (litteraly) to make my heelside turn on many occasions. I had no trouble initiating the toeside carve, it's just that when I was about to unweight the tail seemed to keep drifting from under me and really making the transition difficult to heelside. Often, even trying to stop toeside, I'd feel the tail wash out (or at least drift) and would end up with the nose pointing uphill coming to a stop. Very frustrating. I wonder if the hard pack snow (a bit hard to dig in) conditions brings up a flaw in my technique that a little softer snow hides. I had the same feeling when I tried gates for the first time on very hard snow. I also had difficulty transitioning from toeside to heelside. Toeside tail dull edge? (it didn't feel too sharp but the heelside tail either....). Should I try to move the bindings back a bit? Change angles? Detune the nose? Attend ECES to take lessons? :) Any pointers would be appreciated. thanks Equipment: JJSB 170cm (12/17/15) with plate (bindings over axles, plate at its stiffest). HSP boots F2 bindings Race titanium (front: 55d, 3d cant + 2cants forming a toe riser, rear: 53d, 3d cant + heel block) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 How long have you been on the plate ? Fore aft balance on the plate may require a different approach than the bare board since the plate allows the board to do things it couldn't without the plate. With the plate your riding has to change, anticipate earlier ,commit fully. Experiment with binding position for sure as plate changes your previous normal feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Generally speaking, if the board wants to pivot around (or ahead of) the front foot, you have too much weight on that foot. That, or the board is being twisted, which seems unlikely given the use of a plate. If it felt like the board wanted to 'whip' and high-side you, increase the setback and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crote123 Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 <input id="mac_address" value="" type="hidden">I'll try moving the bindings back a bit. I had moved the bindings forward after receiving the board as I was losing the nose on both toeside and heelside (I also moved the axles to stiffen the plate). I guess the soft to medium snow hid the issue and I thought everything was fine. Only when I finally rode on very hard pack (when I tried gates and yesterday with wind swept runs) that the problem crept up. Well, more adjustments :) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Fuego done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I always center the bindings on the inserts. The manufacturer put them where they did for a reason! Then adjust your technique. It sounds like you don't have an issue with the heelside turn, so that points to technique instead of equipment. Assuming good snow; are you feeding the board forward as you progress through the turn? Start the turn with weight towards the nose, then progressively feed the board forward so you end with more weight on the rear foot. Pokkis mentioned the Fuego test. He's asking if you have your toes or heels overhanging the edge. That can cause all kinds of issues that are a little hard to diagnose. Search for Fuego for more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Fuego test- http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7172&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=fuego+test Donek angle guide, mo' better IMHO- http://www.donek.com/images/angle_guide.pdf A little* overhang is no big deal. *little as defined by the Donek angle guide. Or the full monty- http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Generally speaking, if the board wants to pivot around (or ahead of) the front foot, you have too much weight on that foot. That, or the board is being twisted, which seems unlikely given the use of a plate. If it felt like the board wanted to 'whip' and high-side you, increase the setback and try again. Very much agree. Had the same issue the frist time I switched to a modern shaped carving board with decamber. I had mounted the bindings centrally (taking inserts as reference) as a starting point. Copmared to the traditional non-rocker board the bindings were set back - or better - there was more board in fron of me. In order to compensate this i automitaclly had put more weight on the front foot with the result of washing out. The problem has been resolved by two things: - Took the rear binding a bit backwards which has put my COG more backwards - Since I was aware of the issue I adapted my riding. Less pressure on the front foot. It is definetely worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crote123 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 A little update. Saturday morning, the conditions were rather poor. Hard and icy in the morning. I had moved back the bindings a bit but I was still oversteering and washing out the tail easily, I moved back up the bindings to no effect either, later in the morning, the conditions soften up so the tail washout disappeared (but I was still feeling that it wanted to let go). Got home quite frustrated, and noticed the screws holding the plate on the tail heelside axle were loose, very loose. I hadn't noticed before so there was quite some loose play between the plate and the board. I tightened it up. I also decided to remove all cants and just keep the toe lift up front and heel lift in the rear (F2 race titanium). On Sunday, early morning, the conditions were also poor but it was a mixed bag; hard and soft, lots of ice pellets. The tail behaved much better tut the conditions weren't extremetly hard so I'll have to wait until it really cold and icy for the final conclusion. But I was able to carve down some steeps that I wouldn't usually try. So, the jury is still out but looks better for now. I also noticed something in my technique. I like to carve across the fall line and I noticed the my shoulders had a tendendy to also follow the same path, I corrected by having my shoulders face down the fall line more and that seemed to have helped also. Finally, I always ride fairly loose in my boots but on Sunday after a few runs, I tried to go the opposite way and tightened them real hard (I needed to unbuckle in the chair up). That also seemed to help but I started noticing that the nose was digging deep on toeside (actually folded the nose a few times) but was having a little bit more trouble in the transition over to heelside but only in the steeps and that's probably technique (I need to adapt to changing conditions even from turn to turn) so, thanks everyone who helped out, things are looking up! :) <input id="mac_address" value="" type="hidden"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Are you saying, you ride a high-end setup with plates and the whole shabang and the boots don't fit? Are you further saying you would be in need for a carvin basics training? I'd definetely recommend to meet with other carvers. It's going to be very diffiicult to help you via the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 You have more control over the situation than you're giving yourself credit for. Loose bolts won't cause what you're experiencing. It's likely something you're doing that would cause such a specific problem. Do you have anyone nearby to ride with? The impartial eyes of an observer can reveal things that are hard to see in yourself, as long as you're willing to listen... ;) My guess is the cause is too much forward weight bias in the toeside turn, and maybe reaching for the snow with your inside hand. Try standing on your rear toes as you pass the fall line (board pointing down the hill), and keep your shoulders upright while driving your hip towards the snow. I could be completely wrong too :), but that's my guess from the clues above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crote123 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 no, I just say that I usually ride with my boots fairly loose. I just prefer it that way. This time, I just tried them really, really, *really* tight (I did not try to make them comfortable) and it was kind of a revelation. That's all. <input id="mac_address" value="" type="hidden"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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