Euro Carve technique

[LeeW]

This is a sig worthy quote:biggthump

It is for I have adopted it, myself because I know the very pain associated with that!

[pokkis]

To run EC you need steep slope

[astrokel]

Gotta pipe in here especially about the motorcycle thing...

When going fast on a motorcycle (or most powered single track vehicles) the tendency is to use classic "bomber" style weighting, that is compression in the apex of the turn. At least that's how I turn on my bike, compress into the tank and try to get my body's COG as close to the bike's COG as possible. EC is all about EXTENSION at the apex. So I'm not sure about how going fast on a bike appies to EC except that you lean over a lot. Now going quickly around a slow turn might be applicable, that is flicking the bike around a relatively tight turn and pushing the bike away from you as you go essentially around your body's COG. It seems to me the more apt physical analogy is pumping a skateboard except the timing on the pump is different (I think... not sure about this though).

If you take really close look at the previous video the "extreme" part of the movement is that the lower the rider goes the more compressed he is in the entry of the turn and the more extended he is at the apex (extreme extension). Jack's comment about "expert" may be apt in that an "expert" may have better control over their movement than a "beginner" but I'm not sure if you need classic "bomber" style expertise to pull it off, in fact it may hurt since it's opposite of what you're trying to achieve. One does need a really good sense of where you are in the turn so as to know the relatively precise point where you need to start the extension and when to compress again to get into position to hit the next turn but that's just riding, right?

The EC of extremecarving.com is not just getting lower, the beginning of the video is a good illustration of that. I agree with Jack though that alot of folks try to fly before they learn how to take off.

But to the OP, BlueB's right on... it depends:biggthump

[Rob Stevens]

If you take really close look at the previous video the "extreme" part of the movement is that the lower the rider goes the more compressed he is in the entry of the turn and the more extended he is at the apex (extreme extension).

That's gold right there.

The photo? Like the guy at the gas station said; "You can't get there from here". If your nose is pointed downhill and you're not body dragging, it's too late.

The fact is, you have to be traversing in a compressed position. Think about that as happening in your ankles, knees and hips, with your torso still upright enough to see what you're doing.

Did I mention you want to try this heel to toe first? No? well, now I am.

-So, go traversing across the hill, on your heel edge, nice and low.

-Stay low and roll across a flat board to your toes. You should still be mostly going across, but be fading towards the fall line a little.

-Now, take your back hand and put it on or near the snow in front of your back foot. This should be easy and not much of a reach (like you're reaching in your photo) because you're down low with your legs fully flexed.

-From this low position, with your hand out, start to extend out along the snow. You should reach full extension when you're in the fall line.

-As the board starts to come out of the fall line, which it's doing because of the camber reversing and the sidecut (not because you're "steering" it) reverse the move and begin to compress back to your board along the snow and back into your little ball of rider.

You will stall above the fall line, lying flat on the snow. No problem... You probably started too early. Good mistake to make, though.

You will stall before you can get back up after exiting the fall line. No problem... Go a little faster. You should be stoked anyway, because at least you got out of the fall line.

Most people try this turn standing WAY TOO TALL at the entry. You will never get it that way. You have to start in a little ball and extend along the snow from there.

These are my words.

[dbmgreen]

Hey thanks for this, salient points :) I tried something similar to this last week, and came up with satisfactory results, (given that I was riding on icy man made hardpack)

I had never really thought of it in a "push pull" way, but thats exactly how it works. I was "washing" out my heel side turns, but am trying to set up new boots, and a BTS system, so there is something going on there to fix up as well, because I have never had that problem before.

[John Gilmour]

Invite me to AU. Never been there. I had a "snowboard nightmare" last night.

Embrace the snow.

(goofing around in softies, strap bindings on a split tail powder board, an eccentric waste of time.)

+1 on setting down the landing gear early.\

I have to lead my body quite a bit because the board center is weird ....the split tail has almost no tail relative to nose.

I'm not sure I would call this style of carving carving so much as a Snow sliding technique... longboarders do a lot of traction breaking slides to control speed- and I am wearing slide gear for the snow. The carve is actually slightly broken and my turn radius is modulated radically throughout the turn. In the fall line my turn radius might approach 30 meters...at the finish its about 10M.

Edited June 20, 2012 by John Gilmour

[ecshredder]

Nice video! Is that you making the sound effects?

[LambertoMI]

I had a very similar question last season. So I watched the russian video as they posted here. I got to tell you, it works.

I started by reaching inside with my outside hand. Mind you, the first few times you do this, it feels lame. Then I got better and better. I also added a virus with extreme edgehold to the mix. Edgehold is key. I tried on my old Factory Prime and was not able to do it as well as on the virus. The variable sidecut, crazy edgehold, and titanal metal really helped out. I got my last ride in last season on wet hero snow and I got it! The other riders on the lifts saw my ridding and asked how the heck did I learn that. I think the reaching in and over technique really helped me. And yes, it does feel as cool as it looks. But it takes a fair amount of speed and the newer school of board technology to assist.

Keep trying, it is very cool when you get it down.

Good luck!

[John Gilmour]

Nice video! Is that you making the sound effects?

Yes- I'm making a "YAAAAA" sound, "Yaaaaaa" at speed and passing sounds like "yeeeeearrrrrrrgh!" just so people can get an idea of the speed using the Doppler effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect

as pitch changes with the speed. If you know how far the camera man is away from you and you measure the shift in pitch you can use that to measure the speed. (easier just to have these....

http://www.amazon.com/Zeal-Optics-Transcend-Spherical-Polarized/dp/B003UA0F8O

which I can order for people if they want a pair) or just have an iPhone or Android with a GPS app.

The iPhone lens sucks the speed out of videos.

(shameless pitch....for the goggles... the newest ION ones are better... but the transcend and later model z3 are sorta affordable...please ignore..

With the Z3 goggle you can monitor your speed, altitude, air temperature and receive phone call and text notices from your Android phone though a small screen in the corner of the goggles. With the integrated GPS you can find yourself and your friends on the mountain, which is perfect when you inevitably separated on a run, especially on mountains with spotty cell service.

But the Z3 is just the beginning. Next year Zeal Optics is releasing the iON goggles, which builds on what they've achieved with the Z3 by adding an HD camera, with a 170-degree wide-angle lens, and an 8 megapixel still camera and shoot 1080p video... (yeah gotta get those for next season.)

All of the controls for the goggles are managed through a blue tooth enabled remote that you can wear on your wrist like a watch and allows you to easily switch through all the functions.

These goggles aren't cheap, however. A pair of the Z3's will cost you $550. Fortunately the price of the iON's will be less, at $400. )

Edited June 20, 2012 by John Gilmour

[LeeW]

My GOD! Those are bloody marvelous! All those seeing anime with that kind of interface is now a reality! I'm gonna take a look into this, no doubt. Oh my god, it's full of stars.

With the Z3 goggle you can monitor your speed, altitude, air temperature and receive phone call and text notices from your Android phone though a small screen in the corner of the goggles. With the integrated GPS you can find yourself and your friends on the mountain, which is perfect when you inevitably separated on a run, especially on mountains with spotty cell service.

But the Z3 is just the beginning. Next year Zeal Optics is releasing the iON goggles, which builds on what they've achieved with the Z3 by adding an HD camera, with a 170-degree wide-angle lens, and an 8 megapixel still camera and shoot 1080p video... (yeah gotta get those for next season.)

All of the controls for the goggles are managed through a blue tooth enabled remote that you can wear on your wrist like a watch and allows you to easily switch through all the functions.

These goggles aren't cheap, however. A pair of the Z3's will cost you $550. Fortunately the price of the iON's will be less, at $400. )

[dbmgreen]

I'm hoping this newly arrived baby might help me a little :)

[crucible]

That new board looks like a BIG stick of chewing gum awesomeness..... Cinnamon Big Red to be exact.

Geo

[kieran]

I'm hoping this newly arrived baby might help me a little :)

excellent optical trick there, giving a perception of ginormous taper.

[west carven]

howdy dbmgreen

whats the specs on that beauty, length, width, sidecut? is that a vsr?

if you cant ec on that you should sell me the board (hehehe).

[dbmgreen]

VSR 171 20cm ish width, can't remember the rest, will read it off the side and edit this. :)

[RRrider]

This is an awesome thread! Which as I'm sitting in the end of summer sun, making plans for my winter snowboarding trips, is getting me really pumped up! Quick question: what impact do you think size of board has here? I am a little guy (5'8" ~150#) and I ride on a 158cm F2 race board. I've heard both (a) it's easier because the board is short and therefore easy to maneuver as well as stiff so it holds it's edge really well and (b) its harder because you want torsional stiffness to hold the edge but longitudinal softness to easily bend into the carving shape...the short boards are too stiff longitudinally, and therefore take a lot more skill and force to bend them enough. I basically believe that with enough skill, equipment is essentially irrelevant (a good rider can ride anything...whether that be a board or a motorcycle) but as I'm only an average rider (on both a board and a motorcycle) I like to make up for my relative lack of skill with optimal equipment

thx!

[crucible]

I am the same size size as you- and my favorite size of board for Eurocarving is between 166-172 cms. I find that boards between 158-162 cms are slightly more difficult to keep locked in, mainly because it has a smaller sweet spot to stay balanced over.

[BlueB]

Medium sized board, softer flex.

[RRrider]

I am the same size size as you- and my favorite size of board for Eurocarving is between 166-172 cms. I find that boards between 158-162 cms are slightly more difficult to keep locked in, mainly because it has a smaller sweet spot to stay balanced over.

Ahhh! This does explain my experience perfectly. Great for navigating the mountain however...harder to sweeper carves or EC. Hmmm maybe a new board needs to be in my future :)