Guest 2Extreme Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hey all, hoping someone can tell me what's up- I am going to buy a brand new pair of bindings. Trying to decide between the Catek Olympics and the TD2's. I've never had either and am fairly new to the carving scene. If I have it right the Cateks you can adjust the cant and lift easily and with no extra parts but the TD2's you need different cant disks? Thanks in advance- Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 You are correct on the adjustment differences. Details here: http://alpinecarving.com/binding_model.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy S. Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 To me the differences boil down to: Cateks: Unlimited adjustability but you need two wrenches with you at all times Bomber: One wrench and set-it-forget-it simplicity. Yes you need to replace your cant disk to make major cant changes, but you can tweak pretty well with the new ones. I'm a set-it-forget-it guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Extreme Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Thank you all for your input. If I did go with the TD2's, what cant would you start with? Just guess? Buy all the discs with the initial purchase so I can try them all? Makes it a little more expensive that way. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dudleydudley Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I just bought my first set of TD2s and this is my first alpine setup. As it is recommended on their site, I bought a 0* cant disk and a 3* cant disk. Lots of good info about newbie setup on there. And the Carver's Almanac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Day Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'm by no means an expert, but I think alot of people will agree that getting two 3* discs is a nice neutral place to start. Then if you need to change something, you could go with a 6* disc. I run a 3* in the front and a 6* in the rear, but I'm thinking about switching things around this season... putting the 6* up front & the 3* in the rear. For me, I tend to weight my front foot too much making my tail wag. So in theory, with my mechanics anyway, by putting the 6* up front, I might shift my weight bias rearward. Just a theory that I'm working on. That's just my two cents! Happy trails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy S. Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 You might consider buying a 6/3 set up plus an extra board kit with a 3/0 set up. Try them out on the carpet in the living room. Then call Fin or Michelle and ask to exchange the two disks you don't want. As long as you haven't scratched them up, that may be OK with them (I'd double check first). Also FWIW, I suspect you wouldn't have much trouble swapping disks with someone here on the site. I did that last season with someone. It took me about 24 hours to find a taker for an even swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Originally posted by nekdut You are correct on the adjustment differences. Details here: http://alpinecarving.com/binding_model.html I must take exception to one bullet item there. The Carver's Almanac states: "The [Catek's] True Flex Disc isolates the rider from shock and vibration, and protects the board. Catek claims that it also 'decouples acute rider transmitted forces from making it to the board edge.'" The TD2 provides a true suspension and is the only binding on the market that currently does so. Regardless of quotes to the contrary for any other binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Extreme Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Seems like a lot of bias towards the TD2's. Is this because this is a Bomber forum? Just curious, Everyone is teaching me a lot about the bindings right now. Anyone here using or has used the Cateks? There are obviously a lot of you with the TD2's and are very happy with them, that's really good to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Day Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Jeff, I do use both the TD2 & Catek Olympic step ins! I do like the TD2 bindings...but my favorite is still my Cateks! This will be my 5th season on plates and last year was my first year using a binding other than Catek. I don't think that I am sensitive enough to notice the sudulties between the Catek e-ring and the TD2 suspension ring or the differences between the step-ins and the conventional bindings! All I know is that I ride just a little bit better with my Cateks. I know that I'm going to get a bunch o' s@#t for my comments...so let 'em rip :-) I do like the fact that the TD2s are more adjustable than the TD1s...and I like the adjustability of my Cateks! Anyways, again my un-educated 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 They're both extremely awesome. If you already know around what type of cant/lift you want (and most beginners do start with like FRONT: 0-1 toe lift, 0-2 inward cant REAR: 2-3 heel lift, 1-2 inward cant) which can pretty much be accomplished by rotating the e-rings on the TD2. The Catek is a bit more complicated and harder to switch boards etc. but equally an awesome binding, i prefer the cateks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Day Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Now Bob, Be nice :-) How do you know that Jeff aka 2extreme won't think you're talking to him! You see Jeff, Bobs' a little upset with me as we are friends, he helped Fin design the TD2s and I still ride with my Cateks! Just kiddin' Bob! Actually, that's the beauty of this web-site and market! From what I have seen, all the major players are more interested in promoting this market than what people ride! Peace be the Journey! Happy trails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I personally think the TD2's kick a little more @$$. Just a little. I do notice the difference between the suspension on the TD2 and the Catek rubber gasket, but only on my less-damp boards. But that's exactly where I need it. I find the TD2's just a tad easier to set up and tear down, even though my small boots require me to loosen the toe and heel blocks. On the other hand the continuous can/lift adjustmnet is very cool, and Catek SI's are easier to step into while moving. In the end, I sold my Olympics and bought another pair of TD2s, and a couple second board kits to mount my quiver and just move the top plates around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Originally posted by Bob Jenney I think everyone finds the thing that they like about either system. When you think about it, the TD2 and the Olympic are complimentary bindings. They cover all a rider could want. If you can't get dialed with one or the other, then the problem is not the binding. Bob, with all due respect.....there is a specific niche for flexier bindings amongst the sport's most elite riders. I'd really like to see this void filled by either Bomber or Catek.... Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Originally posted by Kent Bob, with all due respect.....there is a specific niche for flexier bindings amongst the sport's most elite riders. I'd really like to see this void filled by either Bomber or Catek.... Kent It's an intersting point you bring here and I am glad to hear it. The most common thought about bindings on this forum is that bindings should be stiff and boots should flex. Personnaly, I am quite happy with my Burton bindings that I've had for 7 years. Not everyone wants the same level of performance out of their setup. I really like carving, I only ride my alpine board during the winter, it's been a couple of years since I touched my freestyle board, but I am not as motivated as others with tuning and boards and stuff, I just like to ride the best I can and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Originally posted by yyzcanuck And I take exception to that statement... The PHIOKKA Highlander, the F2 Race Titanium, and F2 INTEC Titanium all suspend the rider's weight upon an elastomer ring, in a manner similar to the BOMBER TD2. And where might someone in the US purchase these? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 It's interesting to hear the thoughts about the need for suspension in a binding from Bob. This is the exact reason that many racers I know stay away from Bombers, beacause they don't have enough movement. Stiffer your binding interface is the more direct power and control you have over your snowboard, but this also means the more power the snow has over you. When you hit ruts and chatter and your bindings are too stiff you feel it in your shins. If you have a binding with more give the board can bounce around under your feet and you can maintain balance because the snow isn't pushing your shin all over the place. Just like a fs xc bike you can float over bouncier terrain without getting bounced around so much. Verses a hard tail where you think you are going faster because you are really getting bounced and are barely able to hang on, but that's all that's happening... you're going the same speed or even slower, but getting bounced more. Like yyzcanuck pointed out the Phiokka's are a very popular binding with racers, not just in Toronto, but across the globe. Take in consideration I'm talking about racing here, mainly because it was brought up by some other posters. When you are out freeriding you don't encounter the same terrain you do in a race course. Most of the people I know who only freeride and never put their board in a rut prefer to ride in Bombers or Cateks, for the same reasons the racers don't use them. You can really create a lot of energy in your turn with a binding as solid as these. There was a thread last month called "the right tool for the job", or something like that. Bindings are exactly that, first you need to do some soul searching and figure out what you will be riding most of the time then start narrowing down you binding choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 The racers need a flexier binding simply because there's a lot of bumps and ugly ruts (low frequency vibration) though don't they? The aren't riding the soft plates because it gets rid of low frequency, but because they absorb some of the beating, right? Although, being a techie who loves physics and shiny equipment that you can ride, I'd love to see a binding come out that combines both concepts of Catek and TD2, kind of like the Phiokka except... stiff in the right places and soft in the right places, not just soft everywhere. I'd buy one right away if it combined the machined aluminum bombproof beauty of Cateks & TD2's, took the disk system from the Catek, with a dampening system for high frequency vibrations and a small bit of a flex pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Originally posted by yyzcanuck And I take exception to that statement... The PHIOKKA Highlander, the F2 Race Titanium, and F2 INTEC Titanium all suspend the rider's weight upon an elastomer ring, in a manner similar to the BOMBER TD2. Well, a quick look at those bindings on the web reveals insufficient details to confirm or deny the existence of such a suspension system, but I am very skeptical. Really I was just trying to nicely say that the statements in the Carver's Almanac about the Catek isolating or decoupling the rider from the board are quite simply false. The mounting plate is rigidly bolted to the board, much like the TD1 was. The circumferential gasket is a better execution of the same concept as the TD1's bumpers, but it is not a fully floating system. But whatever, both the Olympics and the TD2s offer something the other doesn't, and both are excellent choices. Neither binding renders the other obsolete. Edit: I just read Bob's post. That's what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Originally posted by Bob Jenney I’d love to personally interview a range of racers to get a better picture of this. - I think that all riders can benefit from more suspension in the boot/binding/board interface. Allowing the board to follow the terrain independent or somewhat isolated from the rider feedback has proven to be a good thing with some of the very crude observations I've made and tests I’ve done. You'll be hard pressed to take away my hardtail in Minnesota..but I did recently buy a full carbon tri bike. Was going to hit up Seven for Ti, but there was a lil rumor about their aero "fairing" rather than aero tubing. I was going to email you offline about that.....until I found a deal on carbon. Anyhoo, back to bindings. Yes, let's start the research! There's a Grand Prix in a few weeks at Breck. Expense the travel to Bomber. I'll meet you there and buy the beers. I'm sure Phil and Chuck would chime in their 2 cents as well. I added Fin to the official start list as a pre-season present..... Perhaps this is better suited in it's own thread, but here goes. I'd venture a guess that every guy racing USSA has, at least, tried riding either Catek, Rat Trap or Bombers at one point in time. When your race performance dictates whether you'll eat ramen noodles or Old Chicago Pizza (perhaps the van or the Super 8 for lodging) every second counts. Some guys ROCK on stiff bindings, some guys don't. But, there does not appear to be ANY consistency on podium finishes and stiff bindings. (unless Mort is racing and it took him a loooong time to give up those ski boots). It is interesting how cyclical the the changes have occurred.... In general, you hit the nail on the head....too much responsiveness limits absorption (Indy race car vs. off road pickup truck). Racing is a difference animal than freecarving. At the same time, snowboarding "should" be a foot sport....not a leg sport. (i.e. many people use stiff bindings to cheat for lack of balance). The issues with stiff bindings is less an issue on toe side turns versus heel side. (Toe side = more direct pressure through the boot tongue). It may sound crazy...but perhaps some sort of hinge mechanism that runs parallel underneath the foot. I guess what I'm saying is that although the board is symetrical, the bindings aren't. They offer totally different purposes on toe and heel turns.... I'm getting a bit off tangent, but I'd do backflips if Fin (or Jeff) came up with a possible solution. The best design I've seen was the Virus Deathlock which appears to be a Phoikka OEM. It's basically an vintage Emery Course on steroids...... On a side note....most racer don't need all the frills, bells & whistles. Toss in some canting/riser shims and we'll customize (not configure) to our situation. The less gadgets, the better. We don't need "on the hill" adjustment...just one more thing to go wrong in the starting gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 What about the old emery surfs. You'd have to be a plate rider for at least a decade to know what I'm talking about. But these had suspension. CarvCanada in a race course you get everything ruts, holes, girls ruts, bumps, and a lot of chatter. When I think of suspension I think of the ability to absorb. You can put more rubber in a board and make it dampen more viberation, but that dosen't make it have suspension. You use your legs to absorb movements before it displaces your center of gravity, so you can maitain balance. Your boots have movement in them so they can absorb some of the energy before it gets to your legs. Your binding have movement to absorb energy before it gets to your boots. To me this is all suspension, they are a "system of devices supporting the upper part of a vehicle (from my hips up) on the axle (my board). In my mind all bindings have this suspensioin, the support the upper on it's axle and they have the ability to absorb. Wheather it's through the bails flexing, your boot sole rolling withing the bails or the base plate flexing, it still absorbs. Granted some bindings do better than others. Remember it goes both ways. The system I talked about above I looked at absorbing energy from the snow. It also absorbs energy from you, you have to move more in order to get the same response out of you board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I'll probably not be at the SES, unfortunatlly I get paid to take my kids to races, not to go freeriding. But if I could...... But there is a Nor-Am at Loon at the end of Jan. there will be many high level athletes there that you could pick their brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipstar Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I had a pair of them! They were, if I recall the same model as you, a hard ridge, with rubber on either side, so the suspension was in the boot sole/binding wire interface, rather than the binding itself. It made a difference for a hard sole like a ski boot. I used to ride the 5 hole nitros with the fritshi bindings that mounted the binding on a single bolt in the centre, and the heel and toe floated on a sliding track. So the suspension was basically absorbing flex of the edge independently from the single centre screw. Did nothing for riding flat over chop ;-) Surprisingly, it actually worked quite well, so I was heart broken the next year when nitro went to the 4 hole pattern, and I had to toss out all that gear! Kip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I'm a little concerned that when I tighten the mounting bolts in my TD2s, the base will suck right up the mounting disc and produce suspension no different than that offered by Catek. Admittedly I haven't mounted them up yet, but it looks like the 'suspension throw' is about equivalent to the 'base suck' that I typically get when mounting bindings (even my TD1s). And if I don't tighten them enough to suck the board up to the mounting disc, will the mounting screws stay tight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Extreme Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Well, I really didn't expect all this when I started this thread, but I appreciate all the input, even though it went a little off topic. I am absolutely sure that I can't go wrong with either binding. I also understand the racer mentality as for 6 years I raced skiing USSA and went to the 1992 Junior Olympic trials. Not bad for a kid from Ohio. However at the time I was also boarding in my spare time so there you have it. I rode a Burton PJ6 for awhile in my ski boots. Then I got married and fell off the earth. So now, newly divorced (2 years) I need to get my carve on!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to all!!!! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.