Boots for the Flat Footed

[scrapster]

Hi All,

I'm about to plunck down some cash on new boots for the season (my Track 225's didn't work out last year.) Since I'm going to have to buy before I try, I was looking for some input. I have a really small foot (24mp), but its super-pronated and flat with no arch, so it takes up some width in a boot as it squishes inward--even with a proper footbed. 225's were generally too narrow and hurt randomly in weird places. I'm looking at some Head SP's and last year's Track 700's. I've read all the reviews and threads that I could find, and the answer wasn't definitive.

If you were a betting person, where would you put your money for the best fit?

[John H]

Your feet sound like mine. Triple e width and pronated, 24 mp. I've had UPZ, Head and this years Track 700. A good footbed that addresses the pronation is key to fit and comfort but as far as boots go I found that the UPZ and Head had a slightly wider forefoot than the 700's. In the heel area the UPZ's were a bit narrower than the Heads and the 700's are kind of in between the other two for heel width. If you also have a high instep like me then the Head's had the most instep room. I used the same footbed in all three boots and all three had Intuition thermofit liners.

I tried on 225's and found them narrower than the other three boots mentioned above.

[Mike T]

Have you asked your source of "proper footbeds" for a recommendation yet?

[scrapster]

Have you asked your source of "proper footbeds" for a recommendation yet?

Ha! My podiatrist is a bit clueless when it comes to alpine gear ;)

Thanks John H (and thanks for your earlier email about my WCRM choice.) Did you have the seemingly common problem of the two middle buckles clashing on your 24 mondo HSP's?

[Flywalker]

Those 24 T700's are yours Scrapster if you want them. l've stepped aside.

[Mike T]

Ha! My podiatrist is a bit clueless when it comes to alpine gear ;)

Shoulda clarified... ask your pdiatrist to help pick based on the info in John H's post, and other info you find via searching older posts.

[John H]

When I got the Heads and looked at the buckles I thought it would be a major issue but I didn't find it to be a big problem and in fact they probably crashed less than the UPZ's. Haven't used the 700's yet but the buckles look like they're pretty close there too. I think that all of the boots have a bit of buckle crash when you get down to mp24. For reference the Heads were set up with BTS using blue springs and stiff tongues.

[Puddy Tat]

Let me say that again

Find a good boot fitter.

I've got completely flat feet. When I stand my arches actually pool out to the inside. On my right foot my inner ankle bone sticks out about half a cm further than the left one due to an injury in a climbing fall about 10 years ago. My podiatrist told me I've some of the flatest feet he has seen.

I ride heavily punched UPZ RTRs and Deeluxe Track 225Ts.

Mods done

UPZs

Replaced flo liner with deeluxe 141 liner, as my shins don't work with the ridge from liners with tongues, punched out toe box, inside of arch, outside of arch, widened heel, and ankle bone at pivot on right boot.

Track 225s (new this year)

All of the above except they came with a full wrap thermofit liner. However these are still a work in progress as they weren't punched far enough in a couple of areas so I was still getting pressure.

If it wasn't for bootfitting I wouldn't even be able to ride hardboots.

Cheers,

Dave

[jp1]

scrapster, for what it's worth, my feet are 9 1/2 EEEEE (5E) and I am flatfooted. I have been extremely happy with my Head Stratos boots from day one :D.......

[scrapster]

Good thoughts everybody. Sounds like Dave and I are in similar shoes in re fit/foot issues. With the Track 225's, the narrow toe box was a moderate problem, but the narrow, mid-foot width was the worst. It felt like the inside of my ankle and the top of my (non-existent) arch was being crushed against the side of the boot. Strangely though, some days the fit felt tolerable. Other days my foot would just cramp and fall asleep. It was a crap shoot, day-to-day, which was frustrating.

[Surf Quebec]

I'm using head (Mondo 25.5, my feet are 26.6) boots after trying several Deeluxe/Raichle models.

The key for me was the bootfitter, who did enlarge the toe boxe.

This way the boot has a very thight fit at the ankle and my toes can now moved a bit.

[Pat Donnelly]

http://snowboarding.about.com/od/acessories/a/customfootbeds.htm

[sxybst90]

i am using Head SP 31MP and at first it started hurt on the inner side of both feet, but i took it to boot shop got it punched out and that worked like a charm. i say whatever you do get it customized (punched out) so that it fits perfectly with you feet!

[johnasmo]

I have really flat feet. Anything with arch support hurts like I'm standing on a rock. My feet like UPZ. I've had the RSV and the RTR, and I'm told the RC10 is the same mold. I also like the Flow liners; wish I could buy them separately to refresh since my shells are still good.

[Loo Sports]

The most important thing to consider is not the perfect boot, but the boot-fitting. There is going to be no boot that is going to fit perfectly...(Sorry) so you need to look for the best possible and work from there. One of the most common mis-conceptions in boot-fitting with a foot like yours is, if it hurts just punch it out again and make it bigger.... This is ok to a point, but its a pretty specific point.

Snowboarding puts so much torque and pressure on our feet that unless the foot is STABLE inside the boot, the foot will hurt.

-Think about when you were young and the school bully shook your hand and gave you a knuckle grind... It hurt...lots... But now just hold your hand tightly across the knuckles and squeeze. No pain. You could sit there almost all day. as soon as you "roll" your hand it starts to hurt.-

So the same thing is going on in our boots. we need some compression on the foot when we ski and ride to get energy to the snow, so to get that we need to think stability not always more room. If you have a really flat wide pronated foot,(like i do) find the best thing you can... Most alpine snowboard boots are actually pretty similar. You could try ski boots. The new Nordica 3 buckle series (all based on the Ace of Spades) could be a great high volume snowboard boot. Once you find your boots, Orthotics are a must! The purpose of an orthotic is to stabilize your foot in a neutral position. Remember I mentioned earlier how its important for our foot to be stable in the boots? IT all starts with the orthotics. If you have a really flat an severely pronated foot, you will not be able to get the ankle to neutral, but you need to be as close as possible. If the orthotic hurts or feels uncomfortable under your foot, it was made inaccurately. An good orthotic should feel comfortable under your foot (no matter how flat your foot is) Once you have a good foundation under your foot with the orthotic, then you need to look at the liner. Most are very unsupportive. Injected liners (like the Surefoot) are the best thing you can do. They provide the most stable fit for the foot while not being "overly supported" Intuition or other heat fit liners can work for some people, but they wont last very long and they are not right for everyone.

I hope that helps a bit.... It can be very confusing and I could go on for pages.... but the bottom line is make sure that you have someone that really knows what they are doing when it comes to a bootfitter. And remember that there is no magic boot. A really good boot fitter could make almost anything work for you.

Ari

[scrapster]

Thanks Ari, and everyone. Good stuff. I've found that getting boots to work well for me is part art and part science. I have custom (prescription) orthotics that feel great in some boots and awful in others. Actually, I found an old Bomber post where someone with flat feet said he was most comfortable when he took any sort of arch or orthotic support OUT! Strange, but I've had boots like that too. I generally agree orthotics are a big help though--as keeping that heel post stationary does stabilize the rest of the foot.

Funny, I didn't realize how wide my feet were until just a few days ago. I always just focused on the fact that they were short! I did a little shell testing at home last night and tried on the one pair of hardboots that never hurt my feet (some old AT boots). I noticed they were the only pair where my mid-foot didn't touch the sides of the shell. Hmm..

In the end, I was lucky enough to be able to swing two pairs of test boots for the beginning of the season--an almost new pair of Track 700's and some cool, older Blax (as a stand-in for Heads~~which I can upgrade to the real deal if I want to.) Hopefully one will be a clear winner and I'll tweak from there. Now, a little snow would help...

[yyzcanuck]

I hope that helps a bit.... It can be very confusing and I could go on for pages.... but the bottom line is make sure that you have someone that really knows what they are doing when it comes to a bootfitter. And remember that there is no magic boot. A really good boot fitter could make almost anything work for you.

Ari, thanks for taking the time to post here on BomberOnline. It's good to have a bootfitter, with plenty of alpine snowboard experience, add their knowledge to the forum.

[bobdea]

Hi All,

I'm about to plunck down some cash on new boots for the season (my Track 225's didn't work out last year.) Since I'm going to have to buy before I try, I was looking for some input. I have a really small foot (24mp), but its super-pronated and flat with no arch, so it takes up some width in a boot as it squishes inward--even with a proper footbed. 225's were generally too narrow and hurt randomly in weird places. I'm looking at some Head SP's and last year's Track 700's. I've read all the reviews and threads that I could find, and the answer wasn't definitive.

If you were a betting person, where would you put your money for the best fit?

what size?

if you need a 280 or 285 you can try either set of my boots if you have liners

I have heads and UPZ, bonus points if you have intec bindings.

BTW, the 700 shells compared to the other deeluxe models fit way different. I can make the 700 work with little to no modification if I really work with the liner but IMO the other deeluxe shell design is unusable for wide feet.

for what it's worth, head is probably the best built boot but does not work as well as the 700, the flex on the 700 is more something.... smooth? for me anyway.

UPZ could be the best but there's still some kinks(like trying to walk in them!), really wide toe box and stiff. the foam injection liner option is the cheapest way to get a super responsive fit that is hard to come by with other types of liners. for about the premium you'd pay to buy some dalbello gold liners for your UPZs you can have a injection liner.

[bobdea]

I have really flat feet. Anything with arch support hurts like I'm standing on a rock. My feet like UPZ. I've had the RSV and the RTR, and I'm told the RC10 is the same mold. I also like the Flow liners; wish I could buy them separately to refresh since my shells are still good.

did you ask Dan?

he can get them I'm pretty sure.

[BlueB]

Hi Ari! Surefoot? Where is your shop in Vancouver? Dunbar?

[Loo Sports]

No shop in Vancouver yet. Just online at www.loosports.com

I have retired from Surefoot, but I will still be helping them out from time to time. I will be in Whistler helping out a bit at the Surefoot there for most of December.

[scrapster]

what size?

if you need a 280 or 285 you can try either set of my boots if you have liners

I have heads and UPZ, bonus points if you have intec bindings.

BTW, the 700 shells compared to the other deeluxe models fit way different. I can make the 700 work with little to no modification if I really work with the liner but IMO the other deeluxe shell design is unusable for wide feet.

Thanks Bob. I could probably fit both of my feet in one of your boots though :o (I'm 24mp--with short but semi-wide feet.) You did make me feel better about the Track 700 purchase. I've tended to prefer stiffer boots, as they take some of the pressure off my cranky feet. But I also think they're hindering my progress. It will be good to try something that offers a workable flex but isn't a complete noodle.

[murphy12]

Hi Scrapster. I am a bootfitter in So Vt. I also ride a 24mp Raichle, and have flat feet. If I can help, please email me:

tdubh51@yahoo.com.

Regards, Murphy12.