evnewsphoto Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Jburrill glad you weighed in, sorry I have hyjacked your post hope that's OK with you. Your tale has me really hesitating to spend what could be $50-100 in shipping to have the guys in Austria say sorry but we don't like what binding you put on. I have been emailing with someone at the "office" and they already said that my binding had a "special" abilty to break boards. So that is why it's good to hear that you had success with a T-nut approach which I am inclined to do. I should clarify by the way that by flimsy bails I mean snowpro type of bindings like a lot of folks use for flex, they remind me of the old Burton plates which I broke constantly. TD1s have worked well for me for a long time and an't broke so why fix em? I also have no problems with them on my other SG so don't think it's that either. And as far as switching bindings and buying a new SG, that would be way more than I can afford, at least $2000 or so, it's not like Fin will let me trade in the TD1s. Like I said it's an insert failure I believe and I think the same thing happened to you as well, the fact that you T-nuted and had no further problems backs that up also. I understand that you guys all want me to trow away my TD1s and drop lot's of money but I can't do that, and I have won plenty of races on them and love the results I get with them. First and foremost I will see what the SG warranty folks say then I may be getting out the drill. By the way Jburrill, what T-nut did you use? I have used and was going to again use M6 T-nuts from Ace hardware and then base weld over them, I don't know anywhere I get those fancy high end ones with P-tex on the bottom in time for my race on Saturday and don't think I'll get my Proton back by then either. I guess you guys can call me stupid all you want I just am trying to find a solution and something I can afford. Everett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I wonder if anyone has thought of modifying or buffering the base of the TD1 with something larger and softer (simulating a TD2 or TD3 base). Maybe concentric rubber and wider platforms underneath it. And perhaps grinding the lower corner of the TD1's might help also. I think I'd try this on an already damaged board if I was planning on riding it again. Everett - if you do decide to repair and reuse the board what do you plan to do to prevent the TD1's from rupturing the board again? I do totally agree with you on the plastic bindings - those old Burton's I was constantly breaking. I've never looked back since moving to Cateks (and now Bombers). Edited March 7, 2012 by scrutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evnewsphoto Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 One thing that may have been a factor but I am not sure, is that one of my rubber bumpers was missing (fell out at some point) I starting to think that is why my other SG is fine, all of the bumpers are in place. The bumpers probably distribute the downword force and help relieve the stress on the inserts and the center disc. Like I said Fin designed a great binding in the first place even though he is still perfecting it you can't say that there was much wrong with TD1s. Not sure if a wider disc matters that much since it was the inserts that lifted up and failed. That's why I don't think it was those alone, could have been a lot of little things. Oh well.... Everett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 This last post explains the user error. TD1s ar teeter totter without the bushings and will generate a lot more force on the inserts because of the missing bumper. After all these years one would think that a guy would know how to install his equipment properly. Don't count on warrantee since you bought the board used and put incomplete bindings on it. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evnewsphoto Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 This last post explains the user error. TD1s ar teeter totter without the bushings and will generate a lot more force on the inserts because of the missing bumper. After all these years one would think that a guy would know how to install his equipment properly. Don't count on warrantee since you bought the board used and put incomplete bindings on it.Ink Why does everyone keep insulting my intelligence on here? Me breaking my board is upsetting enough, insults are not needed. I stated that it fell out I think, not sure, that is different from me not installing it correctly. I am sorry I don't live up to all of you anal retentive a-holes who spend hours inspecting and polishing their high end equipment, I have two young kids, a job and a life, I am lucky I get to ride, train and race at all! I expect a board that cost more than a mortgage payment to at least not shatter after two months of normal use, is that asking for too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTwoO Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Getting back to one of the earlier posts, I've been thinking how one could fix this. One of the ideas I had was to make a vacuum chamber. For sidewall delaminations, one could use a piece of clear Acrylic tube with caps and notch one side to fit over the side. Rags impregnated with wax can be used to seal of the cracks and an old fridge pump can be used as a vacuum pump. It might be handy to have a vacuum gauge and first do some tests to see when the epoxy starts to boil... One must still figure out an elegant way to get the epoxy into the cracks once the vacuum is released, for one alternative route will suck air back in. My guess is though that the chances of getting the original strength back is small... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Let's keep it neighborly and constructive guys. That said, I wouldn't expect any metal board to hold up for long under bumperless TD1s, sadly. S happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evnewsphoto Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 So you think it's OK for everybody to attack me? I can't turn back the clock but even the "Moderator" is saying I am stupid. I have already ordered new bumpers from Micheale and after I put T-nuts in I think that should work, I give up on talking to you guys. I can't understand why no one else except Kburrill who started this thread, thinks these boards should hold up better and not break so easliy. You guys must all enoy spending top dollar for things that break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 So you think it's OK for everybody to attack me? I think that's exactly what Jack did NOT write. That said: I speak as someone who has never so far owned a metal board nor Bomber bindings. Should I ever decide to spend that kind of money, I would research as carefully as possible which pieces of equipment can be expected to work well together and which are not. In case of failure, that would at least make it easier to determine the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) We all would like metal boards to be more durable--and the construction is improving. (See the fact that both Prior and Donek are now inlaying the titanal behind the sidewalls of their boards.) That being said, it is currently a trade-off between performance and durability. There is no one to blame. It is the state of the technology. As the designer of my current metal board admitted when I bought it, they are "fragile." I knew I was taking a chance and that the more precautions I take (always store it and travel with it in a padded bag, use well cushioned bindings with a wider footprint, etc.), the longer the board will likely last. Still, there are no guarantees. The last metal SG I sold catastrophically delammed shortly afterward when the new owner smacked a gate. I hit a gate with my glass Donek just last month--the gate died, my board was fine. Again, it's a trade off. Edited March 7, 2012 by scrapster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEBSIGHT360 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 So you think it's OK for everybody to attack me? I can't turn back the clock but even the "Moderator" is saying I am stupid. I have already ordered new bumpers from Micheale and after I put T-nuts in I think that should work, I give up on talking to you guys. I can't understand why no one else except Kburrill who started this thread, thinks these boards should hold up better and not break so easliy. You guys must all enoy spending top dollar for things that break. Everett, all the advice given here to you from respected long time forum members indicates that your TD1's are not compatible with new metal boards. Everyone here has indicated that TD1's and new boards do not mix well. This has also been mentioned in many other posts, in other threads, here on the forum in the past. It's the first thing that came to my mind when you made your original post with pictures of your board. I would suggest selling your TD1's, and add a hundred bucks to that, and buy a set of used TD2's. That way, you would still have the great beefy bindings you like so much, without the danger of wrecking another board, and perhaps yourself. You will probably love the TD2's even more than you like your TD1's to boot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXFR70 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 We all would like metal boards to be more durable--and the construction is improving. (See the fact that both Prior and Donek are now inlaying the titanal behind the sidewalls of their boards.) what do you mean by this? does this just mean that rather than as the top sheet, the metal layers are below the top sheet and better protected because they are more towards the center of the board or...? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I don't like the condescending tone either, but the message is valid: Don't use TD1s on a modern board or you'll risk a failure. Especially this one after it's been fixed, you couldn't pay me any amount of money to ride that after a repair with TD1s. does this just mean that rather than as the top sheet, the metal layers are below the top sheet and better protected because they are more towards the center of the board or...? If you had X-ray vision and looked from the top of the board, the titanal sheet doesn't go all the way to the edge. It's narrower than the overall width of the board. Then little nicks on the edge won't create a spot where a crack can initiate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEBSIGHT360 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 what do you mean by this? does this just mean that rather than as the top sheet, the metal layers are below the top sheet and better protected because they are more towards the center of the board or...? thanks Yes, The metal layer is now protected by being under the topsheet, rather than being the topsheet itself, AND, they are making the metal sheet slightly narrower than the board itself, so that the metal does not go right to the edge of the sidewall. So when your sidewall takes a big hit, it does not put a dent or stress fracture on the metal sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 what do you mean by this? does this just mean that rather than as the top sheet, the metal layers are below the top sheet and better protected because they are more towards the center of the board or...? thanks Okay--just saw the responses above, so this is redundant. Most, if not all, builders seem to be placing a protective top sheet over the titanal layer these days. In addition, some companies are also taking another step. Instead of running the titanal all the way to the edges of the board where it is exposed and can be chipped and nicked (ie. you can see the thin metal layer under the topsheet and just above the sidewall), they are cutting the metal slightly narrower so, like the wood core of the board, it is completely covered by the topsheet on top, and completely behind the sidewall on the side. There is no titanal exposed at all--not even that thin edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXFR70 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Okay--just saw the responses above, so this is redundant.Most, if not all, builders seem to be placing a protective top sheet over the titanal layer these days. In addition, some companies are also taking another step. Instead of running the titanal all the way to the edges of the board where it is exposed and can be chipped and nicked (ie. you can see the thin metal layer under the topsheet and just above the sidewall), they are cutting the metal slightly narrower so, like the wood core of the board, it is completely covered by the topsheet on top, and completely behind the sidewall on the side. There is no titanal exposed at all--not even that thin edge. thats what I thought, thanks, I had noticed that on my Prior BX thanks to the other 2 responses also, they did not pop up for me for some reason before posting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) So you think it's OK for everybody to attack me? I can't turn back the clock but even the "Moderator" is saying I am stupid. I have already ordered new bumpers from Micheale and after I put T-nuts in I think that should work, I give up on talking to you guys. I can't understand why no one else except Kburrill who started this thread, thinks these boards should hold up better and not break so easliy. You guys must all enoy spending top dollar for things that break. No one is calling you Stupid, or attacking you. The bindings you are using are known to tear out inserts on all snowboards, Many posters have mentioned this to you and you continue to say it is not the bindings fault but the board should be made better?? Your delema is one many people on this forum have found themselves in they are sharing their info with you, in hopes of saving you and your other board from the same damage. Here is some video of some Td1s and the inserts of one of my favorite GSboards from the nintys shot in 2004 look at the 4:20 mark... I rode td1s from 1995 to well when the TD2 came out..and still had a pair to play with for years after http://hardbooter.net/blog/?cat=8&paged=2 If you keep riding your td1s on metal boards you will have the same issues, We have been riding and selling metal boards since 2003 the td1 is one of the base and platform style bindings we have seen massive faliure rates with metal boards we will not sell a metal board if the rider is planing on using td1s or other metal platform style bindings on it, nore will we demo metal boards to anyone on td1s. I personally have damaged 10+ boards at the inserts while using td1s and other style metal platform bindings. There are other bindings that do the same, at the time the industry build boards to handle them better but lots of boards built using soft boot board insert tech were just destroyed. Before the binding had bumpers it was much worse, to boards that were not built to handle the forces these bindings created. Look at the options now, TD3 SW are the binding of choice for most posters on this forum. I have also had some awsome times riding td1s and witness lots of other riders doing the same. It is a great durable binding option! I find it interesting that you have no problem placing blame on the boards construction, how ever when so many other posters claim the fault may be with the binding you are unwilling to consider it? Ditch the bindings and upgrade, if you have a on the hill failure, think of the medical cost alone, not to mention how being hurt would affect your time as a father. I hope for safteys sake you consider replacing your bindings with a new design made to work with metal boards...Consider the issues you may have when considering the cost of upgrading. This people here are trying to help you. Not insult you. Maybe you would like a plate for SL if you are crushing it. A vist plate is a great option on that board the inserts seem to hold up to one just fine, you could keep and maybe flate mount peices or all of your td1s on a vist plate ??? If you have a coach he should be able to help track down one. If not ask around here. If you have a coach he should be able to help track down one. Bummer about your board we all feel your pain and many posters are emtional about a SG getting crushed and it comes out through their post, Don't take it personally. Edited March 7, 2012 by Bordy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evnewsphoto Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well I guess you guys do mean well and I appreciate it, I let the first "stupid award" comement go but it did seem like everyone just wanted to pile on. So I doubt I could sell the bindings given how much everyone here hates them and I am 3 days away from a race and don't think I can drive up and see Fin and blow $600 for bindings, I am stuck with what I've got. My caoch (Matt Drinker) offered to loan me his F2 for the race and I am still waiting to hear back from the SG office but doubt they'll help me anyways. That is why I stoped at Ace hardware and bought M6 T-nuts, longer M6 screws and some acyrilic plexiglass to put between the binding. Also the new Bumpers arrived today from Micheal and I have got those all set. I guess long term I will try to switch but it's late in the season and I don't see anybody selling used TD3s very ofter and rarely see VIST plates either (something else I have thought of) and when they are for sale go very quick. I had a bad experience with the Donek plate last year so that is why I shyed away from plates and went back to basics and was having great results with it until now. I see all you guys telling me what to do but no one offering to sell me TD3s cheap either. By the way all of your concerns over injuries are nice but I have had so many bindings pop open or break durning the 90s that I know it's not that scary, just sit down and slide. If someone wants to help sell me stuff cheap and buy my TD1s then great, but otherwise tell me what you think of the T-nut option in the meantime since that is more realistic. Everett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think if you go back to page 2 of this thread you will find that you shouldn't use Acrylic/plexiglass. Lexan/polycarbonate is what you're after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well I guess you guys do mean well and I appreciate it, I let the first "stupid award" comement go but it did seem like everyone just wanted to pile on. So I doubt I could sell the bindings given how much everyone here hates them and I am 3 days away from a race and don't think I can drive up and see Fin and blow $600 for bindings, I am stuck with what I've got. My caoch (Matt Drinker) offered to loan me his F2 for the race and I am still waiting to hear back from the SG office but doubt they'll help me anyways. That is why I stoped at Ace hardware and bought M6 T-nuts, longer M6 screws and some acyrilic plexiglass to put between the binding. Also the new Bumpers arrived today from Micheal and I have got those all set. I guess long term I will try to switch but it's late in the season and I don't see anybody selling used TD3s very ofter and rarely see VIST plates either (something else I have thought of) and when they are for sale go very quick. I had a bad experience with the Donek plate last year so that is why I shyed away from plates and went back to basics and was having great results with it until now. I see all you guys telling me what to do but no one offering to sell me TD3s cheap either. By the way all of your concerns over injuries are nice but I have had so many bindings pop open or break durning the 90s that I know it's not that scary, just sit down and slide. If someone wants to help sell me stuff cheap and buy my TD1s then great, but otherwise tell me what you think of the T-nut option in the meantime since that is more realistic. Everett Evnewsphoto - some comments for you. The prevailing wisdom on spacers is to use lexan (polycarbonate) instead of acrylic, as the acrylic cracks when you drill into it. I'm having good success with home building spacers out of white plastic cutting board material (which you can buy for next to nothing). TD2's go on sale here all the time. I've picked up 3 sets in the last year. TD3's less frequently. VIST plates fairly infrequently also. What I'd do, if I was in your position :- - Place a wanted advert for some TD2's. Someone might step up to the plate who's thinking of moving to TD3's. - It's much easier to buy something and sell the other thing as separate transactions. Put the TD1's up for sale. Someone running a glass board will buy em if they are priced well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evnewsphoto Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think if you go back to page 2 of this thread you will find that you shouldn't use Acrylic/plexiglass. Lexan/polycarbonate is what you're after. I can't win can I? I am not even that sure it would do anything since another person posted here that even while useing the spacer plate they still broke the board. I guess I'll return it to Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I can't win can I? I am not even that sure it would do anything since another person posted here that even while useing the spacer plate they still broke the board. I guess I'll return it to Ace. Don't feel bad, I did the same thing. I think I've seen Lexan polycarbonate at Lowes, but not 100% sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) By the way all of your concerns over injuries are nice but I have had so many bindings pop open or break durning the 90s that I know it's not that scary, just sit down and slide... otherwise tell me what you think of the T-nut option in the meantime since that is more realistic. Your luck will only last for so long... A friend had an unplanned binding release while hardbooting, resulting in a tib/fib fracture. The orthopedic surgeon had to install a rod and other hardware to stabilize the fracture. The incident occurred in Jan. 2011; he just started softbooting a few months ago; he still can't wear hard boots. If you search here on BOL, you will find several other occurrences of binding release resulting in tib/fib fractures. if you have a on the hill failure, think of the medical cost alone, not to mention how being hurt would affect your time as a father. As stated by Bordy, if your "repair" was to fail, even with "good" insurance you will have huge out-of-pocket expenses., likely enough to buy a couple new-school boards with new-school bindings. Consider you options, make you own decision, and be prepared to live with ay potential consequences associated with your decision. Edited March 8, 2012 by D.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I see all you guys telling me what to do but no one offering to sell me TD3s cheap either. Hi Everett, No need to go with TD3's if they're out of your budget right now. (Though they are very nice bindings and an excellent long-term investment.) F2 Titaniums seem very popular among racers--and you just missed two pairs for sale on Bomber at a fantastic price ($165)!!! I'm sure others can chime in on good, race ready bindings that are suitable for metal boards and won't kill your wallet. Burton race plates? Maybe even some decent Phiokkas? Check the classified section on Bomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evnewsphoto Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Like I said if anybody has TD2s they want to sell me great, I need two pairs. Anything else I will probably break, especially Burton plates, I snaped those all the time, about once a month, it's why I went to TD1s in the first place. I just don't know what to do in the meantime, until I am lucky enough to find some used ones. I did buy back my Oxygen so I will ride that instead and I guess I'll try to send this board back and wait and hope. I will also have to wait and hope for bindings too. Can you mount the TD1 upper plate onto the TD2 or TD3 base? I could always buy the parts from bomber. Everett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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