2011 F2 Silberpfeil carbon?

[big canuck]

Anyone seen one, tried one? Pricing in N/A?

lemme know pls

thx

[tenorman]

Anyone seen one, tried one? Pricing in N/A?

lemme know pls

thx

hi BIG CANUCK

did you ever find out anything about these since last spring?

as of today, the little i found on the european forums were basically useless after the butchered english translation.

i am leery about pulling the trigger on one until i get more info. factoring in shipping and the 12% hst it's going to be close to 1100 bucks and it's not even a raceboard! wtf?

any info you might have would be appreciated. (i am reluctant to email ANDREA at YYZ because everytime i do i end up spending money lol.)

[big canuck]

Nothing yet. I want one but its a lot o dough.

[Mr.E]

That eliminator carbon looks petty sweet, too.

Has anyone tried out Sean's new carbon construction?

[Corey]

For that money you could buy a board custom made to your liking/weight and get pretty far into another set of bindings. Tell Bruce (Coiler) or Sean (Donek) exactly what you want and they could whip something up.

That said, I want to try the new F2 boards as well.

[D.Roe]

For that money you could buy a board custom made to your liking/weight and get pretty far into another set of bindings. Tell Bruce (Coiler) or Sean (Donek) exactly what you want and they could whip something up.

That said, I want to try the new F2 boards as well.

I agree. It's questionable to ship something across the Atlantic that can be made on the same side as where it will be used. That said, I did import one of Sean's Doneks to Germany, and I don't think it will be the last. :)

Regarding Silberpfeil prices... Blue Tomato:

At Blue Tomato it costs 700 euros or about $920. Substract 16% VAT and that's about $793.

(VAT... I asked Blue Tomato about this today because I know that Austrian VAT is 20%. They responded that this earlier-valid VAT rate is still calculated because the "to-USA" shipping really costs them more than the blanket DHL shipping price of only 30 euros -- see below for German readers.)

OK, add $30 shipping by DHL (German UPS-similar shipper) = $823. Plus U.S. customs $_?? (you receive a customs bill with your board). So with Blue Tomato it's about $823 + customs. Others who've imported boards might tell you what the customs rate is on boards.

http://www.blue-tomato.com/de/Alpin-Boards/F2-FTWO-Silberpfeil-Carbon-Edition-168-10-11/product.bto?product=300286743

Cheers,

Dave

Blue Tomato comment on VAT-related 16% reduction of listed prices:

---

Hallo David,

weil früher in Deutschland die Mehrwertsteuer bei 16 % lag wurde diese so eingestellt. Haben diese aber so beibehalten weil bei Auslandslieferungen für uns Mehrkosten anfallen und es nicht bei den angegebenen Pauschalpreisen von DHL bleibt.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind Regards

Customer Service

Patrick Gruber

Hochstrasse 628

A-8970 Schladming

patrick.gruber@blue-tomato.com

Tel: +43 (0)3687 24223-31

Fax: +43 (0)3687 24223-55

---

[D.Roe]

OK, add $30 shipping by DHL (German UPS-similar shipper) = $823. Plus U.S. customs $_?? (you receive a customs bill with your board). So with Blue Tomato it's about $823 + customs.

Oops -- add 30 Euros (not $) to that... about $833 plus US customs...

Cheers,

Dave

[tenorman]

... about $833 plus US customs...

Cheers,

Dave

hi D.ROE

thanks for posting the info about the 16% avoidable VAT. that was just the info i was looking for. i asked my friend BORIS (BLUEB) who has a lot of experience dealing with european companies to find out what the avoidable VAT was for a canadian shipping destination. he emailed the GERMAN seller last week and got the reply that they didn’t ship to canada so we didn’t investigate further. $833 x 1.075 (cdn duty from this website: http://betterdollar.com/?s=snowboards) x 1.12 (hst) gives a total landed cost of about $1003 us or cdn assuming us/cdn is still close to par. the YYZ fob toronto price of ($899 list + 45 shipping) x 1.12 (hst) gives a total landed cost of about $1057. gee that price seems reasonable especially if the us/cdn exchange ratio was higher before--i guess DAVE MORGAN wasn’t the crook i thought he was.

For that money you could buy a board custom made to your liking/weight and get pretty far into another set of bindings. Tell Bruce (Coiler) or Sean (Donek) exactly what you want and they could whip something up.

That said, I want to try the new F2 boards as well.

hi COREY DYCK

what you are saying is true. it’s just that i’ve always liked the ride of a silberpfeil and have agreed with every version of the board that i own despite the fact that they are getting wider and wider each year. they are usually one of the narrowest if not the narrowest hardboot snowboard (not skwal) on the market. the custom board makers appear to be focusing on wider waisted metal boards—i’m looking for narrower waisted non-metal boards. since my desired narrow non-metal board probably requires a departure from the normal routine and possibly a new mold it will probably cost a lot more than the average price of a custom board. money issue aside, i am happy with the product for now so until the f2 silberpfeil evolves to a dimension/shape/construction that no longer suits me i will consider getting a custom builder to knock off a copy of a 17 inch waisted 1999 silberpfeil for me. until then i will remain a loyal f2 customer.

i wasn’t as concerned about the price as i was the lack of reviews on the carbon silberpfeil. my biggest fear was the lack of reviews might indicate a lack of positive user feedback.

i wonder how well it performs? according to the website the dimensions are the same as the old non carbon silberpfeils—is the only difference being the carbon fibre? no new tech/construction (decambered nose, non-radial sidecut etc) or is there?

obviously the edgehold will be improved by the carbon fibre but to what degree? same as titanal boards or more or less? is the carbon fibre laid up to enhance dampness or snap or did they somehow figure out a way to get the best of both worlds? there seems to be no info at all so is the only way to find out is to buy one and try it out?

yikes i just realized i made a fool of myself by trying to falsely accuse DAVE MORGAN of price gouging. sh*t i better order the board from him before he sees this post and sues me for libel.

[tenorman]

this was the GERMAN seller that does NOT ship to canada.

http://cgi.ebay.de/F2-SILBERPFEIL-CARBON-MODEL-2011-172-CM-F2-PAD-/200554862107?pt=Sport_Snowboarding_Snowboards&hash=item2eb200561b

didn't want to imply that BORIS' email was to BLUE TOMATO which is a great company and i have ordered from them before.

[BlueB]

Sheeeesh, Doug, you better not post when sleepy! You are forgetting to put smilies where (I know) they are supposed to be. However, the people who know you less, including Dave, might think that you ment some stuff in other then humorous way ;)

I'm off to sleep now, before I said something silly...

And yes, oreder that carbon Silber from Dave, so I can try them all, back to back :D ;)

[tenorman]

Sheeeesh, Doug, you better not post when sleepy! You are forgetting to put smilies where (I know) they are supposed to be. However, the people who know you less, including Dave, might think that you ment some stuff in other then humorous way ;)

I'm off to sleep now, before I said something silly...

And yes, oreder that carbon Silber from Dave, so I can try them all, back to back :D ;)

don't worry BORIS. DAVE MORGAN is used to being annoyed by my feeble attempts at humour. you should see my previous emails to him asking for info about new f2 products--you would be cringing and shielding your eyes lol.

later

going to sleep now.

[kieran]

The new Carbon fiber/kevlar construction comes in 10% to 15% lighter than the fiberglass construction.

you neglected to mention how good it looks ...

[Corey]

you neglected to mention how good it looks ...

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=23181&stc=1&d=1282703394

WOW!

[tenorman]

hi DONEK

thank you for your informative reply but i already bought the carbon silberpfeil a few hours after my previous post. if for any reason the carbon silberpfeil doesn’t pan out i will keep your offer in mind for next season as it will probably take me the rest of this season to properly evaluate the new board—after all BLUEB will probably end up borrowing it for at least a month lol.

the only caveat i have with a DONEK custom is: are you sure you can do it for your quoted price? i will only consider it if the core is shaped from scratch and not a regular core that is simply chopped down to size. the desired narrow waist will be attained but then the flex would have been calibrated at the previously wider dimensions so the resulting chopped down narrow waisted board ends up being insufficiently stiff. does your price include building the core from the ground up or is it just a modified (chopped down) regular width core? i assume it would be a LOT cheaper to make a new narrow core to the requisite thickness rather than adding extra carbon fibre to regain the stiffness lost from chopping down a wider core.

[big canuck]

Hey Tenorman, whats the carbon Silber like? Any good? What were you riding before this board (or other boards) you could compare it to?

Thanks.

K

[~tb]

hi DONEK

the only caveat i have with a DONEK custom is: are you sure you can do it for your quoted price? i will only consider it if the core is shaped from scratch and not a regular core that is simply chopped down to size. the desired narrow waist will be attained but then the flex would have been calibrated at the previously wider dimensions so the resulting chopped down narrow waisted board ends up being insufficiently stiff. does your price include building the core from the ground up or is it just a modified (chopped down) regular width core? i assume it would be a LOT cheaper to make a new narrow core to the requisite thickness rather than adding extra carbon fibre to regain the stiffness lost from chopping down a wider core.

I have had several customs built by Donek. If he is doing a custom shape, they start from scratch, not by carving down a stock core. All the flex calculations are re-run at the new waist width and SCR to make sure the flex stays where it should. Really good stuff.

Has anyone tried out Sean's new carbon construction?

I have ridden the Donek pictured in this thread and the thing rips. It was the predecessor to the final construction. It has the same geometry and construction except it does not have the rubber in it. The board slices, but is a little loud. Pukas's board with the rubber in it and all the other boards made in this construction should be a dream!

[tenorman]

Hey Tenorman, whats the carbon Silber like? Any good? What were you riding before this board (or other boards) you could compare it to?

Thanks.

K

hi BIG CANUCK

sorry for the delayed response. i had to deal with a near flood last week. let's just say it would have been cheaper if i just hired a plumber in the first place lol.

i wasn't in burnaby much in the first half of january so i had to delay shipment until late january. i just got the tracking numbers and the parcel should reach my door on the 26th. hopefully i will have a review for you before the end of the month.

touch base with you again at the end of the month.

doug

[BlueB]

I rode Doug's new board today in spring-like conditions. To make it worse, one of the buckles of my rear boot fell off in the process... So, take my conclusions for what they're worth...

Board is absolutelly beautifull, carbon weave, simple timless graphics over the clear topsheet. Outline is more similar to current race boards then the old pointy silber. Very light too. Feels stiff on hand flex, but nothing crazy when riding. Somewhat beefy nose...

I didn't get to ride it back to back with older version, which I kinda remember from few years back. I think new one is livelier and the old one was a bit damper and hookier (11m scr vs. new 12m). It has lots of rebound too. Edge hold looks promissing, but can not give a honnest opinion just from few harder spots I found in all the slushiness. I wish we had some propper curduroy...

Ok, that much from me. Doug might chime in too, as he managed to ride both models today.

[CarvingScooby]

sEXY CARBON... WAY BETTER LOOKIN IN REAL...

[tenorman]

hi BIG CANUCK

i only got to ride the board once in soft bumpy conditions so take this review under that advisement.

....What were you riding before this board (or other boards) you could compare it to?

i remember seeing a 2006/2007 non-carbon silberpfeil in one of your previous bomberonline postings so i chose that same board as a baseline for comparison against the 2011 carbon model.

it is an apples to oranges comparison as the 2010/2011 carbon appears to a completely different board from your 2007 model and all previous silberpfeils for that matter.

it is no longer a split tail bridged by a membrane like your old 2007 model. the 2011 is a solid tail. gone is the rounded tail from 2007 replaced by a square tail. aside from the fact that the board won’t fall over when you lean it against the wall it has several positive ride implications.

as stated on the f2 website the tail really does lock into a turn more solidly at the end of the turn. i purposely took the same lines and rode both boards in a similar manner to try to identify any differences. also the conditions did not really deteriorate much so basically the conditions were the same when i rode both boards.

in situations where the 2007 model washed out at the tail the 2011 model tracked powerfully yet still released predictably into the next turn. this was probably due to 2 offsetting conditions. the extra edge holding capabilities of the carbon fibre probably enabled the tail of the 2011 to track while the 2007 skidded. the fact that the 2011 has 6mm of taper (236/229) whereas the 2007 has zero taper (236/236) probably allowed the 2011 to release the edge (and hence finish the turn) more predictably.

it appears the intent of the taper of the 2011 was to offset the loss of the split tail (and modulating connective membrane) of the 2007 model. the 2011 has more edge hold (especially in the second half of the turn) yet didn’t lock you into a turn so tightly that you had trouble exiting.

i am not sure how the new vario camber of the 2011 plays into it but i suspect it was what allowed the tail to lock in so positively in the second half of the turn. i found this to be a great feature for a person who favours narrow boards with the requisite high binding angles (63/60 for me.) when I bend my legs my butt defaults to the back seat instead of to the side like a lower binding angle rider. surprisingly, the 2011 carbon does NOT punish you for getting into the back seat. you are actually rewarded with a boost of speed and takes JET TURNING (rocking back at the end of the turn) to new levels. does vario camber mean that the camber is tail loaded at this section of the board?

normally i don’t believe in tail riding (unless it is a soft nosed burton factory prime) but i had a blast accelerating off the 2011 carbon’s tail—kinda nice to be starting your turn at the same rate as the person beside you and then pulling away from them in the second half of the turn. the only downside is that you have to work extra hard to get back to the front of the board to start the next turn—at the bottom of the chairlift it felt like someone poked me just below the sternum about a hundred times lol. gotta start doing more situps and ab crunches!

also gone is the conshox style butterfly so it would appear that the metal underneath the butterfly was also removed? since the edgehold seems to have increased i assume the carbon fibre layup more than compensated for the absence of metal in the 2011 carbon version. however, i only tested the edgehold in soft snow but the 2011 had more edgehold relative to the 2007 so i assume the same will hold true had i tested both in icy conditions.

another interesting change is the 2011 nose seems stiffer than the old 2007 nose yet initiates easier. maybe i am confusing easier with earlier since the nose shape is also different. the new 2011 nose is smaller (almost hammerhead-ish.) the edge comes up higher (closer to the tip) than the old longer traditionally shaped f2 nose of the 2007 model—hence it engages the turn sooner? because the 2011 nose is stiffer it can be ridden old school style by diving toward the nose to start the turn. paradoxically i was still able to ride it centred and initiate the turn similarly to my 2010 flc variable sidecut board. is this due to the vario camber? the nose shape? a combination of both or some other factor? doesn’t make sense and i don’t know how to explain it but i like it.

from your previous posts you mentioned favouring a fairly wide stance. you will be happy to know the the 2011 carbon has the insert packs set about three quarters of an inch further apart. personally i favour narrow stances. i can ride the 2007 model with as narrow as an 18.00 inch stance but with the 2011 carbon model i couldn’t make it work using a stance width narrower than 18.75 inches. unlike most of the bomberonline membership i believe the factory should dictate your stance not you. if you need a narrower or wider stance get a board that is designed for your preferred stance width. hence i ride my burton ultraprime with the 16 inch REFERENCE stance and suffer with the constricted back leg. otherwise i would have to stop riding the ultraprime and that ain’t happening lol.

interestingly, the inserts are about the same distance from the tail (measured from the middle of the rounded 2007 tail and the flat part of the 2011 square tail.) this means that the 2011 front insert pack is moved quite far forward relative to the 2007. this would mean that the 2011 should be (and is) a quicker turning board. what is strange is the 2011 locks into turns more deeply and powerfully and also gives more pop off the tail which is unexpected since the inserts are further forward than on the old 2007. can’t quite figure that one out. probably a combination of the 2011’s stiffer tail or lack of split tail. and again i wonder if the new vario camber has anything to do with it? is the camber nose loaded at this section of the board?

another odd thing is that the effective edge is listed as 1555mm on both models. i would have expected the 2011 to have the greater effective edge due to the new smaller nose of the 2011 and also the lack of a rounded tail of the 2007 despite both having the same overall 172 cm length. either it’s a typo on the f2 website or i am missing something—maybe the vario camber requires you to measure effective edge differently?

image of both 2007 and 2011 standing side by side:

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25507&stc=1&d=1296176530

look carefully at the nose shape (and the tail) and decide for yourself. the 2007 is the gray one on the far left and the 2011 carbon is the black one right next to it.

finally the 2011 carbon is made in germany while the 2007 was made in Austria. to my untrained eye the craftsmanship and build quality of the 2011 looks significantly higher than the 2007. since this is bomberonline (simultaneously the biggest source of information (for example KENT SMITH, BUELL, BOBDEA) and misinformation (for example TENORMAN)) i can post any speculative and rampant rumour i want to. i.e. the 2011 carbon silberpfeil looks more like a VIRUS than an f2.

that’s funny because i remember a post by FRANK DIETZEL/VIRUS on bomberonline about 10 years ago that he made some split tail prototypes with rubber end pieces in the space between the split tails. he claimed it gave a smoother edge change and something about finetuning(?) the flex. if i recall correctly i think his exact words were “keep the perfect flex of the boards” whatever that meant or maybe i just remembered it wrong. later i see f2 producing split tail silberpfeils with membranes between the split tails. coincidence or copycat-ing by f2?

now about 10 years later, the suddenly gorgeous looking (and even better riding) “made in germany” f2 carbon silberpfeils with a similar aesthetic appeal rivaling some of the VIRUS snowboards. again--coincidence or copycat-ing by f2?

conclusion: this is the only snowboard i have ever bought where i truly felt that i drastically underpaid. that’s saying a lot when you consider what a tightwad i am. i like to think of the f2 carbon silberpfeil as a poor man’s VIRUS snowboard lol.

[zoltan]

if you need a narrower or wider stance get a board that is designed for your preferred stance width. hence i ride my burton ultraprime with the 16 inch REFERENCE stance and suffer with the constricted back leg. otherwise i would have to stop riding the ultraprime and that ain’t happening lol.

Out of curiosity, have you tried your Burton with a wider stance?

[big canuck]

Thanks for the super detailed report. More than I could have sked for.

I'm gunna get one after that report.

Looks KILLER.

Thx.

KC

[se7en]

I'm gunna get one after that report.

+1, so far no luck finding one....

[big canuck]

I'll get the 2012. Not a problem waiting. Its like setting yourself up for Christmas all the time.

[LambertoMI]

Any one able to measure the camber ht on the 2011 F2 Carbon Silberpfiel?