alpine snowboarding wikipedia entry

[queequeg]

Has anyone here ever edited the alpine snowboarding wikipedia entry? I took a look at it and it seems somewhat lame and incomplete. I've never actually edited a wikipedia entry, but I think maybe a few of us on here should maybe spruce things up:

A few hot carving photos would be nice.

Photos/information on modern boots/boards/bindings/plate systems would be cool.

Some discussion of various techniques would be good as well.

I particularly dislike this gem: "Since alpine snowboarders represent such a small minority of snowboarders, alpine equipment has all but disappeared from retail snowboard shops. As a result, alpine snowboarders have formed a grassroots movement to help keep the sport alive." Although that statement is for the most part true, it is unnecessarily negative about what I would say was an overall positive step for the alpine community. I would say that alpine snowboarding has thrived since the days that high-volume retailers were selling decks to retail shops and that the "grassroots" style that this sport has adopted has made for many advances in board shaping/design/technology that would otherwise not occur if big-brand companies like burton were the ones driving the progress of the sport.

"Notable alpine snowboarders" are all racers (and racers are certainly notable alpine snowboarders, but I think those guys should be classified as racers.

I'm thinking it would be really cool to get some knowledgeable people from bomber and other sources updating that article. I'd be happy to help out but I am sure that there are many people here who are WAY more knowledgeable on the subject than I am.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_snowboarding

[heroshmero]

Sean, Chris and Bruce, I don't see any links to your websites. This is an opportunity for a bit of free advertising for your operations.

[Dan]

I do believe there's a factual error there:

"Alpine boards are often longer than other snowboards and vary in length from around 150 to over 200 centimeters; they have <b>deeper sidecut, resulting in smaller turn radius,</b> mostly in the range of nine to seventeen meters"

(Emphasis my own.) Which would mean, presumably, that the freestyle guys on their shallow sidecut boards are making turns larger than 17 meters. (So straightliners are really just making turns of infinitely large radii. :))

-----------------------------------------

First-ever Wikipedia edit completed:

Wasn't so sure about the use of "shallow" to describe sidecut, as most of the time I would say something like "large scr" rather than describing it as "deep" or "shallow", but I didn't want to get into that can of worms.

"Alpine boards are often longer than other snowboards and vary in length from around 150 to over 200 centimeters; they have shallower sidecut, resulting in a larger turn radius, typically in the range of nine to seventeen meters. "

[queequeg]

Good job dan, you brought down the entire wikipedia server! haha!

[kjl]

Sean, Chris and Bruce, I don't see any links to your websites. This is an opportunity for a bit of free advertising for your operations.

Wikipedia discourages links to commercial sites. I had to fight to keep bomberonline on there a few years ago (and I "won" the argument since bomberonline was perhaps the only repository for carving information online back then - I think it was before Scott's Carver's Almanac was around). I'm actually surprised to see yyzcanuck in the external links.

Jose: I think Jack and I at least did some work on the page a long, long time ago. You should definitely edit it if you feel it could be improved. That's the beauty of wikipedia - anybody is free to edit it; just do so in good faith (and if you've used it as a resource before, you probably have at least some sense of what they are trying to do: present information as factually as possible, from a neutral point of view, with no original research. No prosthelytizing).

[queequeg]

Jose: I think Jack and I at least did some work on the page a long, long time ago. You should definitely edit it if you feel it could be improved. That's the beauty of wikipedia - anybody is free to edit it; just do so in good faith (and if you've used it as a resource before, you probably have at least some sense of what they are trying to do: present information as factually as possible, from a neutral point of view, with no original research. No prosthelytizing).

Cool - I might try and make some additions of my own later on then. What is the deal with sourching photos for wikipedia - I imagine that the reason there are no photos there are due to rights management?

[NateW]

Lately, the terms "Alpine Snowboarding" and "Hardboot Snowboarding", or just "Hardbooting" have become synonymous With Shred Gruumer.

:lol:

Who did that?

[Jack M]

I wrote the original entry, then it got wikified and somewhat neutered. Obviously some softbooters have taken some swipes at it. I did write the part about alpine disappearing from stores and so on, which is true and I did mean it as a positive thing, but I see your point. That part could be made more positive. I'll see about that later today, or have at it yourself.

I'm also going to remove the pointless smear on Ross Rebagliati. Talk about the allegation trumping the verdict.

[Transistor Rhythm]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist balancing that list :D

[queequeg]

I did write the part about alpine disappearing from stores and so on, which is true and I did mean it as a positive thing, but I see your point. That part could be made more positive.

It should have occurred to me that this stuff was probably written by some of our people on here - I meant no dis by what I wrote - sorry!!

[Snowriter]

I wrote the original entry, then it got wikified and somewhat neutered. Obviously some softbooters have taken some swipes at it. I did write the part about alpine disappearing from stores and so on, which is true and I did mean it as a positive thing, but I see your point. That part could be made more positive. I'll see about that later today, or have at it yourself.

I'm also going to remove the pointless smear on Ross Rebagliati. Talk about the allegation trumping the verdict.

Ross Rebagliati - First ever Olympic champion in snowboarding. Also known for having tested positive for marijuana and nearly losing his gold medal as a result.

Is that what you were referring to? If so, I wouldn't call that a pointless smear. It's accurate and was one of the biggest stories of the 1998 Games.

[scrapster]

I did write the part about alpine disappearing from stores and so on, which is true and I did mean it as a positive thing, but I see your point. That part could be made more positive. I'll see about that later today, or have at it yourself.

Yeah, it seems a little dire--like we're on a one-directional, downhill slide and just barley holding on. ;)

Maybe its best not to put it in a historical context. Instead, we could have something along the lines of, "Alpine snowboarders are not common at resorts in North America, and alpine snowboard equipment can rarely be purchased in local shops. However, the graceful (or fluid) yet aggressive carving technique of alpine snowboarders along with their unique equipment usually make them highly visible on the slopes.

The internet has also helped to support a thriving grassroots community of alpine snowboarders that fosters training in technique, equipment design innovation and sales, and organized gatherings across the world (mention expression sessions...)"

Anway, just a thought. I wish I had more time to put into wordsmithing, but I have to devote that mental power for work right now.

[Jack M]

Ross Rebagliati - First ever Olympic champion in snowboarding. Also known for having tested positive for marijuana and nearly losing his gold medal as a result.

Is that what you were referring to? If so, I wouldn't call that a pointless smear. It's accurate and was one of the biggest stories of the 1998 Games.

Yes. It's pointless because 1, it did not enhance his performance; 2, I'm 99% sure Marijuana isn't or wasn't an IOC banned substance, so it should never have been an issue in the first place, and 3, his result was ultimately upheld and his medal returned. It's completely irrelevant to his accomplishment and to the wiki entry. It would be relevant on the Ross Rebagliati wiki page. Actually you could say it makes his win even more of an accomplishment because if anything, he was handicapped by it. I watched with horror as the whole thing unfolded on TV in 1998. It absolutely reeked of a plot to make all snowboarders look bad in our Olympic debut by some bigot skiers who were grumpy that it finally made it into "their" Olympics.

[Jack M]

It should have occurred to me that this stuff was probably written by some of our people on here - I meant no dis by what I wrote - sorry!!

no worries at all man! you make valid points.

and thanks again to kjl for feedback and helping me get it wikified way back then.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I was trying to think of a famous enough non-racer to add to the notables. I see that Tom Burt has turned to the dark side now, so he's out...

[Transistor Rhythm]

Damien Sanders, Jacques & Patrice, Joerg Egli?

Damien doesn't fit any category actually. Just as he would like it ;)

[queequeg]

Damien Sanders, Jacques & Patrice, Joerg Egli?

Damien doesn't fit any category actually. Just as he would like it ;)

I would add Will Garrow to that list.

[Jack M]

Damien Sanders, Jacques & Patrice, Joerg Egli?

Damien doesn't fit any category actually. Just as he would like it ;)

I would add Will Garrow to that list.

All notables to us, but the public wouldn't have a clue. Except for maybe Damien Sanders, but he wasn't an alpine snowboarder. Will Garrow could work, as the description could say "the alpine snowboarder in the Warren Miller movies".

I would like to add Peter Bauer and Jean Nerva to that list. They were the first to really glamorize alpine. Anyone who had seen a Burton catalog older than 1995 might remember them.

[queequeg]

All notables to us, but the public wouldn't have a clue.

How about Mike Jacoby And Mark Fawcett? They are guys from the earlier days of alpine (and fawcett is obviously still very active in the racing community) who were both fairly multidisciplinary (I think?), so they might work?

[Alaskan Rover]

My gripe about the wiki entry is the following statement:

"The term 'alpine' has come to be mostly associated with snowboarding in hardboots, as they are the choice for people seeking the purest carved turn."

That statement alone makes it seem that alpiners feel they are superior to other boarders...in that other boarders have no business messing in the sanctified purity of the carve. What a bunch of malarkey.

Gravity IS Life.

[Alaskan Rover]

Hardboots allow one to carve better. Duh. It's not that other boarding equipement can't carve, it's just that it doesn't carve as well. Hence not the end-all be-all for carving, but what will allow one to make better carved turns.

No need for sophomorisms such as "duh"...I understand the difference in mechanics and physics well enough. It's just the term "purest" alludes to "superior" in some people's minds....right or wrong. Old time long-board surfers used to have that same "purity" attitude, until they got totally upstaged by the the three-fin, dynamic, narrow shortboards.

All I am saying is that the reader unfamiliar with boarding may detect a rather 'superior' feeling in the underpinnings of that sentence.

[BobD]

Hardboots allow one to carve better. Duh. It's not that other boarding equipement can't carve, it's just that it doesn't carve as well. Hence not the end-all be-all for carving, but what will allow one to make better carved turns.

To second that, I'm a decent carver in softboots and on skis, but there is no tool that will quite do it like an alpine snowboard, and hard boots. It's the only thing they are designed to do. and the unique body position is able to create edge pressure that is not possible on anything else.

All I am saying is that the reader unfamiliar with boarding may detect a rather 'superior' feeling in the underpinnings of that sentence.

It is superior, period

[Call me jack]

Would Georg Rabanser be a notable figure of the sport?

...Or Shaun White? :p

[Jack M]

My gripe about the wiki entry is the following statement:

"The term 'alpine' has come to be mostly associated with snowboarding in hardboots, as they are the choice for people seeking the purest carved turn."

That statement alone makes it seem that alpiners feel they are superior to other boarders...in that other boarders have no business messing in the sanctified purity of the carve. What a bunch of malarkey.

yeah, so?

[KingCrimson]

Jeremy Jones used to race, right?

And then of course Mr. Sanders was a plate rider..

John Griber too