Alaskan Rover Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Yep...back to that age-old question again. I am sure that question has been kicked around since the first boarders lived in caves and had to ditch wooly mammoths on their way down the slopes...maybe the question even goes back to the paleozoic era. Who's faster...snowboarder or skier??? Skier or snowboarder???....that question spins around and around in my head and sometimes has even more import than whether Brad is going to get back together with Jennifer. I guess it's an obvious question to ask...as there does seem to be a gear-polarity on the slopes and steeps. As for me, my background is in ski racing...but I switched over to boarding years ago because of love. Oh, I loved racing and skiing, don't get me wrong...it's just that after that initial 5 days of butt-aching, tortured vileness was over, I began to love boarding even more. I loved the innate poetry of it. But, still that question of which is ultimately, potentially, faster has always roosted on shoulder...squaking into my ear every now and then when some high-speed racer flashes by in perfect GS form. In these instances, I almost ALWAYS give chase...hard for me not to...mpossible actually. About as hard as telling a greyhound NOT to chase that metal rabbit. The chase was ingrained in me by umpteen race coaches and dare i say, my own desire. Sometimes I end up winning, sometimes I end up losing, but I almost always give chase. I think pure physics and dynamics of form gives the advantage to the ski racer at ultimate race speeds. It is hard to argue with the advantage that that extra set of edges gives you. Plus the not small advantage of being able to skate where possible to pick up additional momentum...and do a very low tuck at other times. while boarding in my own GS form that I naturally adopt, I have surprised quite a few GS racer-style folks flashing by in their GS form...not so much by passing them, but at least by staying right behind them, and then sometimes passing them when the crud comes up. Mind you I am talking about all-out GS circuit racers enjoying a run OFF the gates or post-race and NOT your average rec skiers. But still, I think physics and dynamics must win this one and given the same high-speed course and same weight ski-racer versus hardboot board racer logistics and same course conditions,and same top-notch ability for their respective sport, my race experience would tell me that the ski-racer would definitly have the the physics advantage, and thus the speed advantage. At top-level, it would be close, I think, but I think the ski-racer would still get to the bottom first in the above race. I think, however, for ULTIMATE high-speed SPEED TRIALS (Steve McKinney-type stuff) there is one way the boarder would definitely beat all. But it would be a one-way trip: Change the bindingings on the the board so that both face 90 degree forwards. Then you sit butt on the board (need a 220 cm board!!), back flat on board, luge-style, luge-helmut for aerodynamics, speed suit etc, at the top of the super steep trial course...(and since it would be a one-way trip anyway, you might as well pick a 60 degree slope!!) and 1, 2, 3, GO!!!...controlling your direction down the slope with body-movements, luge-style. I don't think any speed skier would be able to keep up with that suicide sled. But like i said, it would be a one-way trip, because I don't think you'd be able to pull-out at those speeds lying butt-flat to the board! If a skier can go 156mph (!!!!WTF!!) in a tuck...how fast can you go lying on a board luge-style (the knees would be the highest thing above the snow)???? 180mph??? More?? If I was ever diagnosed with cancer and had like 1 week to live and die a horrid, drug-ridden death in some hospital, I think I would have them instead haul my guerney from that hospice, helicopter me up to the top of a speed-trial course, put me in those bindings and give me a push, so that I can have one last dance with gravity...and hope that I didn't just skid out into a snow pile 60 feet down the run. ;) Gravity IS life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Here is your reading from just a couple of days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Yep...back to that age-old question again. It's not an age-old question. Nobody debates it. Skiers are faster. Used to be we could beat them in the pow or crud but with modern big mountain skis I seriously doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 What Neil said. I've done both for a long time (40+ yrs ski, 24 yrs SB). Raced both. Used both in deep pow. Even skied/ridden parts of a KL (speed skiing) course. Skis win every time. In the early days good swallowtail boards won in deep pow, but not with new skis that are 110+ underfoot. Even in your butt-hurt example, you'd lose. No way you could keep a board going straight set up like that. And even if you could, that stance would lead to some lift of the nose, then you'd get air under the nose, the board would go all squirrely and you'd crash in spectacular fashion. Even with my 210 Super G board, riding in a strong tuck I start to get air under the board somewhere around 70mph. Its just too hard to keep the board riding flat and straight at those speeds. It is fun to think about though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heroshmero Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I don't think this is even debatable. Skiers can go faster and do harder, more technical lines. But snowboarding is more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Rover Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 That's exactly right, Sinecure. I never thought about the lift factor you would get at high-speeds if you went down the slope with your butt on the board and bindings at 90 degrees. I was thinking purely of aggregate air resistance and stupidly forgot about other physics factors such lift generated by the pressure differential at the board tip. You'd start yawing right and left and NEVER would make it to those 120 + speeds, I guess. Oh well, it was simply an exercise in thought anyway. For me, even though, I DO love high-speed and invariably find myself giving chase in high-speed fashion, I love the FLUIDITY and grace of boarding even more. If I was just purely into speed, I would probably still be on racing skis....but I switched over and have never looked back.:) Gravity IS life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 The number of skiers on here is a bit thick. (I couldn't believe the results of my heritage thread, thought there'd be more boarders than skiers) Sure on groomed and packed runs skiers are faster (only from what I've been told, never been able to prove that true myself in application), but even with the new powder skis I say we (snowboarders) still rule the soft stuff. And if a skier does go faster than a board in powder I'd wager that either the snow wasn't that deep and soft or the boarder sucked or the boarder was riding too short or narrow board. I know I'm going to get bombarded by skiers (something you wouldn't expect on a snowboard site), but let the barage begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 The number of skiers on here is a bit thick. (I couldn't believe the results of my heritage thread, thought there'd be more boarders than skiers) Sure on groomed and packed runs skiers are faster (only from what I've been told, never been able to prove that true myself in application), but even with the new powder skis I say we (snowboarders) still rule the soft stuff. And if a skier does go faster than a board in powder I'd wager that either the snow wasn't that deep and soft or the boarder sucked or the boarder was riding too short or narrow board. I know I'm going to get bombarded by skiers (something you wouldn't expect on a snowboard site), but let the barage begin. Nope. Again, skiiers are faster. And I don't ski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Rover Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 I tend to agree with you, PhotoDad2001. On hard pack or ice...skiers would be faster...except an excellent snowboarder would be able to whip an average, semi-fast, non-race-trained skier...as I do it ALL the time. But a well-trained GS-style racer on racing skis should be able to beat an equivalent person on a board given those same hard-pack conditions. BUT, you are right...on really fairly steep, very light and deep powder bowl runs, I think boarders on a good powder board (my fatbob works really well, here) would have the advantage from a flotation aspect alone. Doesn't matter, though, really...I guess the main thing is just to enjoy whatever you're on and wherever you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveInOregon Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 I often wonder who has "documented" the fastest strait line bomb on a SB ? I'm talking world record speed on a set up regulated resort double-black run, and not just your personal record or speed or GS type speed ? This would be nice to know and see some gutsy guys willing to go up to the edge of what a speedboat does when it catches air and yet still stays in control. Obviously I know you could find a snow cliff in the Alaska range and just "fall" at a radar gun at some were around human terminal velocity of 120 or so, but what about a highly organized series of runs to see who and what set up is the fastest. I'm sure there are some kooks out here wanting 15 min of fame as the fastest SB'er alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me jack Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 I often wonder who has "documented" the fastest strait line bomb on a SB ?I'm talking world record speed on a set up regulated resort double-black run, and not just your personal record or speed or GS type speed ? This would be nice to know and see some gutsy guys willing to go up to the edge of what a speedboat does when it catches air and yet still stays in control. Obviously I know you could find a snow cliff in the Alaska range and just "fall" at a radar gun at some were around human terminal velocity of 120 or so, but what about a highly organized series of runs to see who and what set up is the fastest. I'm sure there are some kooks out here wanting 15 min of fame as the fastest SB'er alive. i wanna say i heard the record was 125 mph, and it was a volkl rentiger.... that just sounds familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 i wanna say i heard the record was 125 mph, and it was a volkl rentiger.... that just sounds familiar Total bs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Rover Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 It's not what your on; it's how crazy your are and when your fear kicks in. Ha ha...that's very true, SnowRider! I find that the older I get, my fear kicks in just slightly earlier than when I was a young twenty year old, thinking I would live forever. I guess I am glad it does, too...as I probably would have died years ago if it didn't! LOL. As for craziness, I guess I am about as crazy as ever. Why would I be randonnee-skinning myself up some mountain peak when I could be home reading 'Reader's Digest' by the fire if I wasn't? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heroshmero Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Total bs! Darren Powell. He's hit 126.4 m.p.h. Though, it sure doesn't look like a stock Rentiger. Check it: http://www.worldsfastestsnowboarder.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Rover Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Total bs! No, ShortcutToMoncton, it IS true...I just looked it up...Darren Powell still has the snowboarding speed record that he obtained at Les Arcs, France...speed through the radar trap: 125.459 mph. As far as I know, that record still stands. Incidently, the record skier speed on that same course was made in 2006 at 156 mph in 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 It's not what your on; it's how crazy your are and when your fear kicks in. I can't remember what video it was but the rider was Farmer taking an entire first decent in Alaska straight top to bottom. He went from peek to bottom in the amount of time it took the camera guy to zoom in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Total bs! Totally my bad! I'm Canadian eh; used to Kmph, not mph :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 I tend to agree with you, PhotoDad2001. On hard pack or ice...skiers would be faster...except an excellent snowboarder would be able to whip an average, semi-fast, non-race-trained skier...as I do it ALL the time. But a well-trained GS-style racer on racing skis should be able to beat an equivalent person on a board given those same hard-pack conditions.BUT, you are right...on really fairly steep, very light and deep powder bowl runs, I think boarders on a good powder board (my fatbob works really well, here) would have the advantage from a flotation aspect alone. Doesn't matter, though, really...I guess the main thing is just to enjoy whatever you're on and wherever you are. Have you seen modern powder skiis? Not the **** ones produced by the masses, but custom skiis produced by Ignius, Praxis and the like? All things equivalent skill-wise, skiers are faster. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Totally my bad! I'm Canadian eh; used to Kmph, not mph :o We need to switch over to the metric system and make it easy for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 I couldn't find the video segment with Farmer, but here's a nice one. If you go to 3:13. Don't blink you might miss it. <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GyapY5vEa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GyapY5vEa4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> I miss these days when snowboarding had balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Fastest snowboarder in the world: http://www.worldsfastestsnowboarder.com/uploads/DarrenPowell_2007_Final.mov as asid before, 30mph slower than the fastest skiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Rover Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 We need to switch over to the metric system and make it easy for everyone! I'll second that!!! Just a few hours ago I was making some pizza dough and was trying to divide 1 and 3/8 cups exactly in half and do it accurately on a measuring cup that didn't have 1/16 marks....would've been hecka easier if it had Milliliters!!!! Rhen it would be so totally simple!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Rover Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 PhotoDad2001 says: "I couldn't find the video segment with Farmer, but here's a nice one. If you go to 3:13. Don't blink you might miss it." GREAT video, PhotoDad!!! It just totally refreshed my mind on why I love soft-boots and free-riding!!! Not that I do 30 foot jumps and varigated 60 ft long rails and sheeet like that, do I DO love the option of being able to land fakie off a kicker when I feel like it, and STILL be able to rip when I want to rip. I AM going to put my Scarpa Denalis on a used carving board on one day soon, but I will NEVER drift away from free-ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Farm has a pretty straight line at 5:00 or so. Jeebus what an animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveInOregon Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Darren Powell. He's hit 126.4 m.p.h. Though, it sure doesn't look like a stock Rentiger. Check it: http://www.worldsfastestsnowboarder.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WOW, So Darren talks about wanting to break 200 !!! sounds impossible, and ya skiers are always faster ( less contact patch ) You would think a Sqwal would be almost as fast a ski's ? This world championship > I don't see any newer listings past 07, I guess no one wants to try to beat him any more , perhaps there is not enough call for this and not enough draw for this fringe thing, I guess not many speed kooks are willing to risk dying to go that ultra fast beat him. ???? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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